GDT: Pre Season Game 6: Red Wings at caps 10/5/22 7:00 pm et

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,327
7,658
Bellingham, WA
Zadina has looked great imo, he had a good first game, he's racking up points, he's looked good. It's preseason, but even last night, Washington pretty much started their opening roster minus a small handful, and the Wings hung around without Larkin, Vrana, Perron, Raymond, etc. It looks promising, but who knows. Elmer is a beast.

Rasmussen has looked surprisingly solid also, probably the biggest stand out for me.

Both of them know they need to perform or they'll be dropped from long term plans and will be replaced with UFAs. I think picking up Perron, Copp, and Kubalik really put some pressure on them to work hard during the summer.

Zadina has looked good in preseason before. Non-physical players tend to excel preseason. If he can do it during the season, I'll be impressed.
 

Coach Reggie Dunlop

Registered User
Jun 9, 2021
926
1,287
Michigan
What? His task load? He played less minutes than almost any D last night. When Ed has played with the more stacked Wings roster he has mostly been on the bottom pair. Getting some extra PP time shouldn't result in him making more errors 5 on 5. Wtf?

Do some of you people just make up whatever your feelings desire and pretend they are reality?
Task load does not equal time on ice. It’s about role. He is not being asked to be a shutdown defenseman, he is being asked to be good and try a lot of things that the other defenseman are not. I’ve seen him jump in on offense more than any defenseman not named seider this preseason. I also saw him rocking the PP and PK, the only other defenseman doing that this preseason are chiarot, seider and Hronek. I just saw Johansson running the PP last night but that was the first time. He had the fourth most minutes and that was because he took a penalty bringing his minutes down. What I’m saying is if you told edvinsson to simply learn how to be a shutdown D this season there is no doubt in my mind he’d be better than oesterle or Haag eventually due to his skill and size, but he’s being asked to learn a lot more things at the NHL level than the people he’s fighting a spot for. And by that I mean the other bottom pairing guys.
 

Coach Reggie Dunlop

Registered User
Jun 9, 2021
926
1,287
Michigan
Just to reiterate a second time I’m not taking the opinion of anyone on HF calling edvinsson bad with any grain of salt. Derek lalonde has consistently said he’s been pleased with him, we don’t know what they are coaching him on or telling him to work on. It’s clear what they are asking edvinsson to do he’s been relatively good at. What matters is the coaches opinion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Henkka and Bench

izlez

We need more toe-drags/60
Feb 28, 2012
4,629
3,518
Just to reiterate a second time I’m not taking the opinion of anyone on HF calling edvinsson bad with any grain of salt. Derek lalonde has consistently said he’s been pleased with him, we don’t know what they are coaching him on or telling him to work on. It’s clear what they are asking edvinsson to do he’s been relatively good at. What matters is the coaches opinion.
Is there anything he said specifically that makes you think he's high on him? Isn't that kind of what coaches do? Say positive things about all of their guys to the media.

(I'm a big fan of Edvinsson myself and think he might be the only new kid to make the roster, I'm just questioning the argument)
 

Al48

Registered User
Apr 23, 2020
114
161
He has faced an array of matchups and has made a lot of errors in all of them, all the way back to the prospects tournament. Consistently leading the team in errors in every game he has played in reguardless of the talent or lack of talent he faces. I don't think anyone criticizing Eds mistakes are even talking about errors relative to his defensive games as those are truely expected at this point. What people are talking about is his self-induced decision making with the puck on his stick. It doesn't matter who is on the ice when you fumble the puck on an unpressured breakout on a nightly basis. Even when he does look amazing skating the puck up the ice, he crosses the blueline and passes it into the other team or trys to walk defenders and gets abruptly shut down resulting in the puck going back the other way. He's made breakout passes to the other team. I don't care if he's caught out of position a bit and loses his coverage for a moment, or if he makes a poor choice on a pinch at this stage.

These are errors that aren't easily excusable at the rate he's making them, even considering it's only his D+2 season. You guys can be blind all you want. Lalonde has already publicly stated he led the team in errors and since that day not much has changed in that department. He however is playing more assertive with his skills and doing more good things out there, hes looking a lot flashier. The amount of bad things has not decreased. But I understand you guys only see those flashy plays and and watch with lover boy glasses on. Nothing new around here. I also do truely believe my wife understands hockey better than some of the top posters in this Wings forum. For example, even she could see Rasmussens progression last season. Guys around here don't figure it out until way later when it becomes blatantly undeniable. Hell, if you guys voted on our roster moves we would have traded Ras before last season. Would have traded Hronek because of his mistakes then whined when we had nobody who could do anything offensively with the puck on the 2nd pair (like the DDK days).

Now with that said. I want Edvinsson on this team. I believe in him in a big way. I will be a lot more interested in this team with Edvinsson on it. Unfortunately around here, I'm forced to defend my knocks on Ed making it seem like im lower on him than I intend simply because i'm unwilling to watch the game with tinted lover boy glasses. I speak the good and the bad, I don't care what player it is. Edvinsson isn't so prestigious that he is immune to any criticism. The funny part is, if he doesn't become a world class defensemen within the next 3 seasons, it will suddenly be the majority turning on him and me defending him, just like Hronek. Absolutely hilarious how that works out time and time again over the years. Me: Realistic, understand things such as how realistic it is for a prospect of Edvinssons caliber to not pan out exactly as desired, understand that in many cases these flaws blamed on being young don't just tend to likely iron our smoothly with some development. Which results in me being happy with the players we do get even if unperfect and understanding the importance of having those pretty good players even if they aren't the elite stars we hoped for. The fab 5 in Red Wings section: Omg he best ever, blind to all errors. 3-4 years later: Omg he sucks he only scores 40 points a year and isn't a stalwart defensively let's trade him. Funny when you look back at that kind of stuff isn't it. Who's the idiot in hindsight?
This hits the nail on the head for how I feel. The mistakes are mistakes that have been talked about since his scouting reports, and they are still there. It doesn't negate the good things he does or mean people think he's a bust. They are very basic hockey/ puck control things that stand out in a bad way. I hope and think they're fixable, but be prepared for those mistakes to cost us here or there if he's working it out against NHL talent.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Realgud

haulinbass

Registered User
Mar 6, 2014
1,425
1,088
Just to reiterate a second time I’m not taking the opinion of anyone on HF calling edvinsson bad with any grain of salt. Derek lalonde has consistently said he’s been pleased with him, we don’t know what they are coaching him on or telling him to work on. It’s clear what they are asking edvinsson to do he’s been relatively good at. What matters is the coaches opinion.

What interviews are you talking about? After watching all of the interviews that I'm aware of, I didn't get this impression. Yes, Lalonde has been asked about him, a lot. For the most part he doesn't seem to optimistic towards handing out any high end praise towards him, maybe I missed one? Many players he seems to be more forthcoming toward handing out higher level of praise. I thought the comments he made about Edvinssons turnovers during camp were a little much. I don't think the standard for him is going to be to speak negativly publicly about his players. You can expect that in general a response from any NHL management isn't going to be negative about a specific player. It's just not the way they operate for good reason. The only thing we can really do is clue in on reading between the lines. If he is asked about X player and his response is well I don't want to get into individual players blah blah blah, followed by something like but yeah he's a talented player blah blah blah, then 5 minutes later is asked about player X and is like wow that kid is so great. That tells you something. It doesn't mean he thinks player X sucks by any means, but it's a telling sign that there are some things he's working on and your putting him in a position he doesn't want to publicly speak about. So he avoids being truthful about any concerns and generalizes overall that he is a talented player. Of course he is going to atleast say he's doing good and has talent. So again, unless I missed an interview, maybe your biteing on the bullshit that has to be said in his position and not weighing the clues left behind from other questions asked about other players.

Again, I'm no Ed hater. Want to see him make the team this year. Would be much more excited about the lineup with him in rather than out. But to sit here and act like the coaches have no issues with his mistakes, that the volume of mistakes is acceptable is a little rediculous. Watch some other top D prospects that are D+2 preseason who have high end offensive talent. They make mistakes too, but Ed is making more than you typically see. You act like because he's a player that's suppose to be offensive that it's a pass on everything because he has higher challenges in front of him. That's his game, always been, he isn't being asked to do anything different today. Other offensive D prospects do the same thing in preseason. Of course our less talented young D who weren't drafted with a 6th pick aren't being expected to do the things Edvinsson can, that's why they aren't 6th overall picks. Crazy to try to make a point by using players who were always less talented and always were going to be expected of less. Why don't you stack a comparison Eds size against him. Go watch another highly touted D play preseason. If Ed makes it to opening lineup, which he really might as of right now. He is going to have to really dial in or he will be getting sent back down once our other D are healthy. Neither of us can predict that, nobody has the answer. All we know right now is that Ed has some serious talent and he certainly has to limit his mistakes or he will end up playing in GR for a bit reguardless of that talent.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,215
12,208
Tampere, Finland
What interviews are you talking about? After watching all of the interviews that I'm aware of, I didn't get this impression. Yes, Lalonde has been asked about him, a lot. For the most part he doesn't seem to optimistic towards handing out any high end praise towards him, maybe I missed one?

There has been Lalonde presser like every day in last days on Youtube. On the latest one from today he talked about those things.
 

Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
15,940
10,488
What games are you watching. Kid makes 2-3 elite passes every game that end up in grade A chances. He’s not dangling people but kid is ultra smart and a phenomenal passer

Haven't seen any of these so called passes. Last night he was completely invisible.
 

norrisnick

The best...
Apr 14, 2005
29,232
13,773
Berggren legit reminds me of a slightly better skating Hudler. That in he's a catalyst. He makes good offensive players better because he knows how to feed them the puck in prime scoring positions. Top tier distributor. That said, he struggles on an island. Without talent out there with him, he's not getting much done because he's not an individual effort type of scorer.
 

MabusIncarnate

Registered User
May 20, 2013
2,294
2,203
Tennessee
Both of them know they need to perform or they'll be dropped from long term plans and will be replaced with UFAs. I think picking up Perron, Copp, and Kubalik really put some pressure on them to work hard during the summer.

Zadina has looked good in preseason before. Non-physical players tend to excel preseason. If he can do it during the season, I'll be impressed.
With the offseason additions, if Edvinsson makes the team, and both Zadina and Rasmussen pick up their point production even a little, it could be a very entertaining season. I'm convinced one of the two are going to make a reasonable stride forward this year.

With so many changes, i'm nervous and intrigued with how this season is going to go, more than a lot of previous years. Lot of young talent with a new head coach, and some scoring support is exciting.
 

Petes2424

Registered User
Aug 4, 2005
8,058
2,341
I appreciate your breakdown, and agree with most of what you said. I have to disagree on Edvinsson tonight though. He made the type of mistakes that can cost games. You can’t miscue or have the puck slide off your stick in your own zone like that. Ok, once in a while it happens, but I saw like 4-5 of those tonight.
To be fair to him, he was also playing #1 minutes (last night) against Oshie, Kuznetsov, Ovechkin, etc. How many 19 year olds can do that without making a few mistakes??

Like I said though, his mistakes have been pretty normal for the most part. Think it was the first shift of the second period for example, he didn’t put enough juice on a simple cross ice pass, breaking out of his own zone. In other leagues, not a big deal. In the NHL it’s in your own net really fast. It didn’t cost him but could have, as it did lead to a turnover. A turnover he recovered from and retrieved the puck, making a good play.

There was also 2 or 3 occasions where he stepped up at the blue line and should’ve been burned but his reach saved him.

If you zero in and watch almost every top-end dman, you’ll see the same type of recoveries that save them multiple times a game. It’s one of the reasons they’re such great players. Pietrangelo every other shift throughout his career it seems. Doughty right behind him. Even when you break down Mo’s games, there’s a lot of mistakes that he covers up because he recovers so well.

Edvinsson thinks the game like all great Dmen do and he’s 100% physically capable. Like I said, there’s going to be some mistakes obviously. He’s 19. Those mistakes though, can’t be fixed in the AHL. They’re the growing pains all young dmen go through when they reach the NHL. Whether 23 or 19.

Those are the majority of his mistakes. His confidence is key for when those things happen and he doesn’t seem effected at all. Which is good. That would be the only real reason to have him play half a year (or so) in the AHL. To gain confidence while playing top minutes. He doesn’t seem to lack any confidence though. Another great sign honestly.

I’ve now watched him play 20-25 times and I’d tell people to think Aaron Ekblad. A player who’s overrated a little but still probably the best #2 in the NHL. Too many people put him in the category of the elite-elite, but he doesn’t have the ability to take a game over (so to speak).

So although Edvinsson has the attributes of the elite-elite…. The skill, the confidence, reads the ice incredibly well, has the ability to recover quickly AND the biggest one being….. when he’s on the ice, the play goes through him … meaning he’s not just making a pass and letting the forwards do their thing.. He’s making the first chip or pass, receiving the puck again, gaining the zone, making the right play in the o-zone, then becomes part of the O-zone setup and execution.

The great ones all do this. They put themselves in the right position for the forwards to know they’re part of the attack… it ends up being very natural. He did a lot of that last night. As he moves forward, his teammates will come to trust him more and more. Something the Wings have lacked for a long time until Mo last year. They haven’t had two dmen like this since Lidstrom and Rafalski.

When you think of pure #1 dmen, there’s only really a dozen or so. That’s what’s so special about Seider. He has all those elements in his game to effect the game like a Hedman, Doughty, etc. Ekblad isn’t in that club but he’s still a great dman. He’s just shade under that group and that’s what I see with Edvinsson’s skill set. If his offensive game takes another step above what we think, he’ll have a chance to be very special. He’s going to get his 40-50 points every year just because when he’s on the ice, things run through him, and he does put the puck on net in a variety of ways. If he becomes a 60+ point dman, he could end up in the special category.

Unfortunately for Edvinsson (we’re already seeing it) it’s only natural that he’s going to be compared almost every game to Mo. Although it’s fair in many ways, it’s not in others. He’s not the type who’s going to take your head off. That will be how many judge him and it’s not fair. He’s also a year younger than Mo was coming to the NHL. That’s a big year when you’re 19.

If I had to compare him to an NHL dman, I’d go with Ekblad. His game reminds me a lot of Ekblad’s game.

Both Johansson and Edvinsson will no doubt increase their O-Zome output over the next 2-3 years and settle in nicely. Both play with a ton of confidence and far above their age group when it comes to their transition game already. I’ve been surprised we haven’t seen more errors from both with their angles and gap control. We’ve seen a couple mishaps from Edvinsson that we see from young Swede dmen making the NA adjustments, but very few. I’ve seen none at all with Johansson. It’s like he’s been playing in NA for years already.

Johansson like I said last night, has ice in his veins at 21 years old. He’s only going to get better and better with more confidence in his offensive game. He really does remind me of a Ryan Suter at the same age. At least in his own zone and transitioning. Cam Fowler was a lot like that too. Two players nobody was sending anywhere after their first 5 games in the NHL. He doesn’t have that total game Edvinsson has, but he definitely has the wheels and smarts to become a fixture in the Top 4, for a long time.

With Seider, Edvinsson and Johannson, the Wings are going to be so quick transitioning over the next ten years, they’re going to be a force. That’s not even adding this kid Buium who’s playing at Denver University again this year. That kid also has a chance to be a weapon from the back end. He should have a big year in college this year, as he really came on the 2nd half last year as a freshman. Not sure he goes pro next year or the following year but there’s a good chance he walks right into the NHL when he does. He’s that physically gifted too.

Lots of good things coming in the next 2-3 years for the Wings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DoMakc

GoBoltz56

Brisebois 1st Rounder
Jul 31, 2004
2,131
1,248
Tampa and Michigan
I think that's what it comes down to because of injuries.

I do not want to watch Oesterle. Ever. Ed might be inconsistent, Oesterle is consistently bad.

Speaking of which, what's the news on Hagg? Last news was over a week ago and said "indefinitely". Sounds like he has hemorrhaging or cracked something when he got hit by the puck?
One of the recent broadcasts mentioned Hagg has been skating.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gniwder

Al48

Registered User
Apr 23, 2020
114
161
To be fair to him, he was also playing #1 minutes (last night) against Oshie, Kuznetsov, Ovechkin, etc. How many 19 year olds can do that without making a few mistakes??

Like I said though, his mistakes have been pretty normal for the most part. Think it was the first shift of the second period for example, he didn’t put enough juice on a simple cross ice pass, breaking out of his own zone. In other leagues, not a big deal. In the NHL it’s in your own net really fast. It didn’t cost him but could have, as it did lead to a turnover. A turnover he recovered from and retrieved the puck, making a good play.

There was also 2 or 3 occasions where he stepped up at the blue line and should’ve been burned but his reach saved him.

If you zero in and watch almost every top-end dman, you’ll see the same type of recoveries that save them multiple times a game. It’s one of the reasons they’re such great players. Pietrangelo every other shift throughout his career it seems. Doughty right behind him. Even when you break down Mo’s games, there’s a lot of mistakes that he covers up because he recovers so well.

Edvinsson thinks the game like all great Dmen do and he’s 100% physically capable. Like I said, there’s going to be some mistakes obviously. He’s 19. Those mistakes though, can’t be fixed in the AHL. They’re the growing pains all young dmen go through when they reach the NHL. Whether 23 or 19.

Those are the majority of his mistakes. His confidence is key for when those things happen and he doesn’t seem effected at all. Which is good. That would be the only real reason to have him play half a year (or so) in the AHL. To gain confidence while playing top minutes. He doesn’t seem to lack any confidence though. Another great sign honestly.

I’ve now watched him play 20-25 times and I’d tell people to think Aaron Ekblad. A player who’s overrated a little but still probably the best #2 in the NHL. Too many people put him in the category of the elite-elite, but he doesn’t have the ability to take a game over (so to speak).

So although Edvinsson has the attributes of the elite-elite…. The skill, the confidence, reads the ice incredibly well, has the ability to recover quickly AND the biggest one being….. when he’s on the ice, the play goes through him … meaning he’s not just making a pass and letting the forwards do their thing.. He’s making the first chip or pass, receiving the puck again, gaining the zone, making the right play in the o-zone, then becomes part of the O-zone setup and execution.

The great ones all do this. They put themselves in the right position for the forwards to know they’re part of the attack… it ends up being very natural. He did a lot of that last night. As he moves forward, his teammates will come to trust him more and more. Something the Wings have lacked for a long time until Mo last year. They haven’t had two dmen like this since Lidstrom and Rafalski.

When you think of pure #1 dmen, there’s only really a dozen or so. That’s what’s so special about Seider. He has all those elements in his game to effect the game like a Hedman, Doughty, etc. Ekblad isn’t in that club but he’s still a great dman. He’s just shade under that group and that’s what I see with Edvinsson’s skill set. If his offensive game takes another step above what we think, he’ll have a chance to be very special. He’s going to get his 40-50 points every year just because when he’s on the ice, things run through him, and he does put the puck on net in a variety of ways. If he becomes a 60+ point dman, he could end up in the special category.

Unfortunately for Edvinsson (we’re already seeing it) it’s only natural that he’s going to be compared almost every game to Mo. Although it’s fair in many ways, it’s not in others. He’s not the type who’s going to take your head off. That will be how many judge him and it’s not fair. He’s also a year younger than Mo was coming to the NHL. That’s a big year when you’re 19.

If I had to compare him to an NHL dman, I’d go with Ekblad. His game reminds me a lot of Ekblad’s game.

Both Johansson and Edvinsson will no doubt increase their O-Zome output over the next 2-3 years and settle in nicely. Both play with a ton of confidence and far above their age group when it comes to their transition game already. I’ve been surprised we haven’t seen more errors from both with their angles and gap control. We’ve seen a couple mishaps from Edvinsson that we see from young Swede dmen making the NA adjustments, but very few. I’ve seen none at all with Johansson. It’s like he’s been playing in NA for years already.

Johansson like I said last night, has ice in his veins at 21 years old. He’s only going to get better and better with more confidence in his offensive game. He really does remind me of a Ryan Suter at the same age. At least in his own zone and transitioning. Cam Fowler was a lot like that too. Two players nobody was sending anywhere after their first 5 games in the NHL. He doesn’t have that total game Edvinsson has, but he definitely has the wheels and smarts to become a fixture in the Top 4, for a long time.

With Seider, Edvinsson and Johannson, the Wings are going to be so quick transitioning over the next ten years, they’re going to be a force. That’s not even adding this kid Buium who’s playing at Denver University again this year. That kid also has a chance to be a weapon from the back end. He should have a big year in college this year, as he really came on the 2nd half last year as a freshman. Not sure he goes pro next year or the following year but there’s a good chance he walks right into the NHL when he does. He’s that physically gifted too.

Lots of good things coming in the next 2-3 years for the Wings.
Thank you for this fair reply. I’ll be the first to admit that most here have probably seen Ed play more than I have. I am not doubting the positive aspects of his game. It’s clear what he’s capable of when he’s clicking. I think the “concern”, and what I’ll disagree with you on, is that his errors are not natural rookie errors due to who he’s playing against.

I watched half of the Caps game. In that half, I saw twice when he turned a corner and the puck floated off his stick. One of those instances turned into heavy pressure from the Caps. I saw three times when he went to pass and he half fanned on it. Those are basic hockey things that have been talked about for years about him.

I too hate the Seider comparisons. They are almost as annoying as every Yzerman draft pick being compared to a Tampa player. He’s his own dude and will do his own things and progress at his own pace. I have faith, but they gotta get like an equipment manager or something working with him to correct some of these weird things. Maybe he needs a Ryan oreilly curve
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,215
12,208
Tampere, Finland
Berggren legit reminds me of a slightly better skating Hudler. That in he's a catalyst. He makes good offensive players better because he knows how to feed them the puck in prime scoring positions. Top tier distributor. That said, he struggles on an island. Without talent out there with him, he's not getting much done because he's not an individual effort type of scorer.

Berggren played this game with Bertuzzi and Rasmussen.

Ok, there's no talent with him, except our first liner and Rasmussen who looked very good.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad