Powerplay issues

[Lord Defect]

So AV can throw Thompson out there to lose the offensive zone draw?

I just hate the dump in sooo much.

 

[Swic21]

Why can’t we run JVR on the top unit? He’s an elite net front guy when used. If your going to have him in the lineup, why the hell would he not be used doing the thing he’s most useful at? Let Couts and JVR play the net front and high shot. Keep Jake and G on the hash marks, and Provy up top if you must.

 

[TheKingPin]

Why can’t we run JVR on the top unit? He’s an elite net front guy when used. If your going to have him in the lineup, why the hell would he not be used doing the thing he’s most useful at? Let Couts and JVR play the net front and high shot. Keep Jake and G on the hash marks, and Provy up top if you must.

I bet it’s one of the changes we will see. With the PP2 getting no zone time JVR is useless in that area. I guess that means you drop Couts to PP2 which would help them massively.

 

[orangey]

JVR in the high slot, open for the one timer could be effective. The old Schenn spot. Can crash down on the goal mouth from there for rebounds. Unfortunately they don't have Simmonds/Patrick for the net mouth spot. Would NAK work? Worth a shot.

 

[Appleyard]

If they insist on Provorov on PP1 then going back to 2 Dmen would not be the worst idea. Give him the Timonen role and let Sanheim/Ghost do what Pronger used to do.

Though he is not as calm as Kimmo was there. Still probably better than what is happening now.

Giroux-Couturier/JvR-Voracek
Provorov-Sanheim/Gostisbehere

Basically mirroring:

Briere-Carter-Richards
Timonen-Pronger

 

[Striiker]

If they insist on Provorov on PP1 then going back to 2 Dmen would not be the worst idea. Give him the Timonen role and let Sanheim/Ghost do what Pronger used to do.

Though he is not as calm as Kimmo was there. Still probably better than what is happening now.

Giroux-Couturier/JvR-Voracek
Provorov-Sanheim/Gostisbehere

Basically mirroring:

Briere-Carter-Richards
Timonen-Pronger

Ghost isn't even getting back in the lineup unless there's an injury.

The coaches don't care about quality of play, so nobody who's currently in will ever sit due to poor performances

Keep in mind that this idiot praised Hagg and the 4th line after last game.

 

[Les Averman]

The issue is Therrien as many have alluded to. For starters, Provorov and Couts need to be taken off of PP1. If they want to keep the same shape as they have, they need somebody is a legitimate shot threat in the bumper role. Farabee is the only left hand shot who can do that with Laughton as the second best guy for that role. JVR needs to be net-front on PP1. Sanheim should be manning the point, or Ghost, if he's in the lineup.

PP2, I would try an overload with Hayes on the half wall (F1), Couts low along the goal line (F2), TK more net front (F3) Myers at D1 and Provorov at D2 (provided Ghost is out of the lineup and Sanheim is at PP1)

 

[deadhead]

JVR is not a net front guy, despite his size, he doesn't play big and he doesn't have the great hands for the rebound.
He's better as a shooter in the high slot, but he's LH.

Timing is everything, we have young players coming up in a year or two who might solve some of these problems (Brink, Ratcliffe, Allison).

 

[flyersnorth]

If they insist on Provorov on PP1 then going back to 2 Dmen would not be the worst idea. Give him the Timonen role and let Sanheim/Ghost do what Pronger used to do.

Though he is not as calm as Kimmo was there. Still probably better than what is happening now.

Giroux-Couturier/JvR-Voracek
Provorov-Sanheim/Gostisbehere

Basically mirroring:

Briere-Carter-Richards
Timonen-Pronger

I doubt Ghost is playing though. He's the de facto 7th defenseman right now.

Could do Sanheim/Provorov, but really I'd prefer Sanheim/Myers instead?

G/C/JVR
Sanheim/Myers

TK/Hayes/Voracek
G/Provorov

I mean, if Ovie can handle double PP duty, so can G.

 

[deadhead]

Actually, I'd rather give G double PP duty and limit his 5x5 minutes, highest value.
Same way I'd replace Provorov with Sanheim and Myers on the PP so he can play more ES minutes.

 

[Rebels57]

The Flyers are now healthy scratching two of their historically best powerplay performers, JVR & Ghost, while the powerplay is 1 for its last 26.

Cool cool cool.

 

[Rodu58]

I think JVR was at his best in Toronto in the slot, not in front of the net

 

[TheKingPin]

The Flyers are now healthy scratching two of their historically best powerplay performers, JVR & Ghost, while the powerplay is 1 for its last 26.

Cool cool cool.

Wonder if they put Farabee in that spot

 

[Rodu58]

Montreal can impede and take penalties with no consequence due to our PP

 

[Philly Fanatik]

Konecny Couturier Voracek
Sanheim/ Ghost Giroux.....
And Giroux takes his supposedly favourite spot after the face off is won or when the Flyers have gained control of the puck!
SIMPLE...eh'
Now executing is another thing!
If it was that god damn simple...we'd be all cool French Canadian coaches!
All our skilled guys make up one UNIT and there isn't a #2 set cause Patrick,Lindblom,Farabee and Frost aren't options in this series!

 

[deadhead]

JVR has never been a great PP goal scorer, even in Toronto.
Last seven years, averaged 7.4 PP goals per year, respectable but not close to elite.

Opps, NST was playing tricks on me, they went from not being able to score to fluke scoring last season.
Nor is Ghost a big PP factor, they were above average from 2011-15, but only average after Ghost arrived.

2011-12: 19.70% (17.31% league average) - goals, Hartnell 16, Simmonds 11 - PP assists, Giroux 32, Kimmo 17
2012-13: 21.64% (18.22%) - Voracek 8 (48g) - Giroux 15, Kimmo 14
2013-14: 19.73% (17.89) - Simmonds 15 - Giroux 30, Kimmo 19
2014-15: 23.44% (18.66) - Giroux, Simmonds 14, Voracek 11 - Streit 26, Giroux 23, Voracek 22
2015-16: 18.93% (18.66) - Simmonds 13, Schenn 11 - Voracek 22, Giroux 21, Ghost 14
2016-17: 19.49% (19.10) - Schenn 17, Simmonds 16 - Giroux 26, Ghost 21, Voracek 18
2017-18: 20.69% (20.18) - Simmonds 11, Giroux 9 [Schenn traded] - Voracek 30, Giroux 27, Ghost 26
2018-19: 17.09% (19.78) (3) - Couts 8, JVR 8 - Giroux 21, Voracek 14, Ghost 10
2019-20: 20.80% (20.03) - Giroux 7, Provorov 7 - TK 18, Voracek, Giroux 13, Provorov 9

xGF/60 - GF/60 (converting scoring chances into goals, positive means you're blowing opportunities)
2011-12: +0.50
2013-14: +0.11
2014-15: -0.52
2015-16: +0.42
2016-17: +1.12
2017-18: +0.15
2018-19: +1.71
2019-20: -1.50

 

[Appleyard]

In 2018-19 at least the metrics put them top 5 in the NHL.

This year they are bottom 10 across the board for the first time in 10 years.

As for JvR...

He is FIFTEENTH in the entire NHL in 5v4 scoring/60 over the last 5 years... of 174 fwds with 500+ TOI.

Dont know how that can be span as mediocre.

 

[Rebels57]

In 2018-19 at least the metrics put them top 5 in the NHL.

This year they are bottom 10 across the board for the first time in 10 years.

As for JvR...

He is FIFTEENTH in the entire NHL in 5v4 scoring/60 over the last 5 years... of 174 fwds with 500+ TOI.

StoP bLaMiNg ThErrIeN

 

[Appleyard]

 

[deadhead]

In 2018-19 at least the metrics put them top 5 in the NHL.

This year they are bottom 10 across the board for the first time in 10 years.

As for JvR...

He is FIFTEENTH in the entire NHL in 5v4 scoring/60 over the last 5 years... of 174 fwds with 500+ TOI.

Dont know how that can be span as mediocre.

2011-12: 7.16 GF/60 (6), 7.66 xGF/60 (3)
2013-14: 7.87 GF/60 (4), 6.80 xGF/60 (6),
2014-15: 8.54 GF/60 (3), 8.02 xGF/60 (2)
2015-16: 6.73 GF/60 (13), 7.15 xGF/60 (8)
2016-17: 6.95 GF/60 (14), 8.07 xGF/60 (1)
2017-18: 7.4 GF/60 (18), 7.55 xGF 60 (10)
2018-19: 5.8 GF/60 (25), 7.51 xGF/60 (3)
2019-20: 7.4 GF/60 (13), 5.9 xGF/60 (24)

Here's what's weird, when Ghost replaced Kimmo/Streit, they still had good shot metrics, but stopped scoring goals.
This last season, they had bad metrics but scored more goals, luck? Fewer but better shot attempts?

JVR goal scoring (goals/60):
2017-20: 2.57 (19) 261 with 300+ minutes
Hayes 2.25 (46)
Couts 1.61
TK, Giroux 1.37
Provorov 1.11
Voracek 1.05

2019-20: 1.43 (127 of players with 100+ minutes)
2018-19: 2.61 (31)
2017-18: 3.56 (11) - Toronto had a monster PP that season
2016-17: 1.82 (85)
2015-16: 2.72 (24)
2014-15: 1.86 (200)

 

[Appleyard]

2011-12: 7.16 GF/60 (6), 7.66 xGF/60 (3)
2013-14: 7.87 GF/60 (4), 6.80 xGF/60 (6),
2014-15: 8.54 GF/60 (3), 8.02 xGF/60 (2)
2015-16: 6.73 GF/60 (13), 7.15 xGF/60 (8)
2016-17: 6.95 GF/60 (14), 8.07 xGF/60 (1)
2017-18: 7.4 GF/60 (18), 7.55 xGF 60 (10)
2018-19: 5.8 GF/60 (25), 7.51 xGF/60 (3)
2019-20: 7.4 GF/60 (13), 5.9 xGF/60 (24)

Here's what's weird, when Ghost replaced Kimmo/Streit, they still had good shot metrics, but stopped scoring goals.
This last season, they had bad metrics but scored more goals, luck? Fewer but better shot attempts?

JVR goal scoring (goals/60):
2017-20: 2.57 (19) 261 with 300+ minutes
Hayes 2.25 (46)
Couts 1.61
TK, Giroux 1.37
Provorov 1.11
Voracek 1.05

2019-20: 1.43 (127 of players with 100+ minutes)
2018-19: 2.61 (31)
2017-18: 3.56 (11) - Toronto had a monster PP that season
2016-17: 1.82 (85)
2015-16: 2.72 (24)
2014-15: 1.86 (200)

JvR was the top PP scorer last year when actually used on PP1. This year he was for ~15 games with an awful set-up and then rammed onto PP2, often not in his actual role.

And yes. You know that this year was pretty lucky. PP can be like that. Small samples engender it.


You are a logical man. Occams razor would suggest Therrien is an awful PP coach. That is the simplest explanation really!

You also know ExGF from last year accounts for shot quality for the most part...

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Here's what's weird, when Ghost replaced Kimmo/Streit, they still had good shot metrics, but stopped scoring goals.
This last season, they had bad metrics but scored more goals, luck? Fewer but better shot attempts?

2011-12: The hot spots were in the slot and between the circles. Very little from the points relative to the league.

2012-13: There's a wider hot spot in the crease and a big one in the right circle. Now you start seeing more Shots from the right point.

2013-14: The hottest spots are in the crease and from the center point.

2014-15: Massive hot spot in the crease extending straight out between the circles. They also now fired from the back half of both circles fairly often.

2015-16: Similar trends to the previous season with a massive amount of center to left point shots added.

2016-17: God damn this was a good year. The big change was not quite as many shots from the center to left point and instead firing away from the backs of both circles. The Defensemen were coming in.

2017-18: A smaller hot spot in the left side of the crease and way, way too many shots from center to left point.

2018-19: This is not the same Power Play. A big hot spot in the crease, but now the others are behind the right circle and the left half boards extending back to the left point. It's worth noting this combines two Coaching Staffs and as such will be noisy as hell.

2019-20: They essentially generate nothing of note between the front of the circles and the point. It's absolutely hideous and inexcusable for this Forward corps. Either everyone became incompetent at once or they're being set up to fail.

 

[Striiker]

And this includes last years PP, right? Which was also sabotaged by Giroux being on the wrong side.

 

[Rebels57]

2011-12: The hot spots were in the slot and between the circles. Very little from the points relative to the league.

2012-13: There's a wider hot spot in the crease and a big one in the right circle. Now you start seeing more Shots from the right point.

2013-14: The hottest spots are in the crease and from the center point.

2014-15: Massive hot spot in the crease extending straight out between the circles. They also now fired from the back half of both circles fairly often.

2015-16: Similar trends to the previous season with a massive amount of center to left point shots added.

2016-17: God damn this was a good year. The big change was not quite as many shots from the center to left point and instead firing away from the backs of both circles. The Defensemen were coming in.

2017-18: A smaller hot spot in the left side of the crease and way, way too many shots from center to left point.

2018-19: This is not the same Power Play. A big hot spot in the crease, but now the others are behind the right circle and the left half boards extending back to the left point. It's worth noting this combines two Coaching Staffs and as such will be noisy as hell.

2019-20: They essentially generate nothing of note between the front of the circles and the point. It's absolutely hideous and inexcusable for this Forward corps. Either everyone became incompetent at once or they're being set up to fail.

When did Joe Mullen leave again? Was it after 2017? Can't remember how long Knoblauch was here.

 

[deadhead]

I think Therrien may be right about not pairing Ghost with Giroux and Voracek, without Simmonds in the crease, that's a recipe for scoring futility.
But Provorov isn't right either, if TK isn't very productive as a goal scorer, take him out and go with Sanheim/Myers.

Myers has the best slap shot from the point, while Sanheim at this point is a better offensive player than Ghost with a better shot.
And both have the speed to recover and chase down breakaways.

G - JVR - Voracek
Sanheim - Myers