Power Play is top problem.....simple fix

[deczola]

IF our PP was going at a rate at 25% (it should do this year in year out with the talent we have), we would not only be in 1st, we would be thinking Stanley Cup contender.

Take a page out of the Flyers book who really have a very good simple PP. They do this: left side Claude - right side JV. From there they have Simmonds in front of the net, Schenn between the circles and Streit at the point. They play a very simple two man game and when that does not work, it goes to Streit at point or it's jammed to the net for Simmonds to whack away.

Pens should do the same exact thing. Crosby on right side. Malkin on left. Hornie in front of net. Letang at point. Kunitz between the circles. The PP is entirely QB by Crosby and Malkin. They get to make simple plays and when teams overplay them, than use the simple back to point and get in on net play.

Spacing on our PP is horrible. Too many forced passes by Sid......heck, I would say clueless passes. Need to make this much more simple. Need to break it down to instead of the PP being 5 on 4, with some quick strong simple smart passes we cut that down to a 3 on 2 or 2 on 1 situation.

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[penguins2946*]

Your PP formation sucks. Having Kunitz in the slot over Perron is absolutely asinine. In all honesty, the top unit should be Pouliot on top, Letang and Malkin on the half walls (with Letang primarily a playmaker) and Perron and Hornqvist down low, with Hornqvist being more the net front guy and Perron playing in a position like Stamkos with Tampa. And yes, Crosby shouldn't be on that unit.

 

[deczola]

And yes, Crosby shouldn't be on that unit.

I'm insane?

You have freaking Sid not on your top PP unit.

Oh my word man.

 

[ColePens]

I have a simpler solution. Move. It's simple. Work low, move, and shoot.

Moving creates lanes and keeps the defense honest/reacting. Shooting creates second chances and, I know it sounds crazy, goals.

 

[penguins2946*]

I'm insane?

You have freaking Sid not on your top PP unit.

Oh my word man.

What a shocking discovery, someone who is not playing well, turning the puck over constantly and making bad decisions with the puck shouldn't be on the top PP unit in my opinion. Crazy, right? I don't really give a crap about the number on the jersey, Crosby has not been helping our PP.

I have a simpler solution. Move. It's simple. Work low, move, and shoot.

Moving creates lanes and keeps the defense honest/reacting. Shooting creates second chances and, I know it sounds crazy, goals.

Idk, the Pens great powerplays with Gonchar were pretty stationary. I really think Sid on the half wall really hurts our PP. He needs to be down low.

 

[deczola]

Your PP formation sucks. Having Kunitz in the slot over Perron is absolutely asinine. In all honesty, the top unit should be Pouliot on top, Letang and Malkin on the half walls (with Letang primarily a playmaker) and Perron and Hornqvist down low, with Hornqvist being more the net front guy and Perron playing in a position like Stamkos with Tampa. And yes, Crosby shouldn't be on that unit.

The guy between the circle is the least important player in that format. The reason I choose Kunitz is because he's played a lifetime with Sid, Malkin and Letang. He doesn't factor much in PP (like Schenn for Flyers) and just gets in the right place to gives Sid/Malkin more room and basically just read the play.....screen when needed, pop out of a pass here and there....simple basic things.

Perron playing Stamkos position? LOL

Pouliot at the point? LOL

 

[Captain Hook]

It just seems like no one wants to shoot on either PP unit. I understand their logic to trading Neal but his willingness to shoot is missed and his pure goal scoring ability when we're struggling to score is also missed.

 

[deczola]

I have a simpler solution. Move. It's simple. Work low, move, and shoot.

Moving creates lanes and keeps the defense honest/reacting. Shooting creates second chances and, I know it sounds crazy, goals.

Move as in positionally? The Flyers have basically zero moment on their PP once set. Once set, they move the puck back and forth to get a higher scoring chance. Quick puck movement is the key.

 

[penguins2946*]

The guy between the circle is the least important player in that format. The reason I choose Kunitz is because he's played a lifetime with Sid, Malkin and Letang. He doesn't factor much in PP (like Schenn for Flyers) and just gets in the right place to gives Sid/Malkin more room and basically just read the play.....screen when needed, pop out of a pass here and there....simple basic things.

Perron playing Stamkos position? LOL

Pouliot at the point? LOL

Bolded: Perron has the best right handed shot on the Pens, and he's excellent at putting bad angle shots on net.
Underlined: Pouliot is our best PPQB as of right now

Are you watching the games this year? Kunitz doesn't deserve to sniff PP time right now. Maybe you should provide a better argument than just "LOL" to why it's a bad idea. Let's look at the facts here;

-Hornqvist is our best net front presence
-Perron is our best right handed shooter
-Malkin is our best left handed shooter
-Pouliot is our best PPQB

Those 4 should be a lock for our top unit. Perron needs to be on the left side where he can 1-time pucks (either down low or at the half wall, either works). Hornqvist needs to be in front of the net. Pouliot needs to be at the top of the formation to run everything. Malkin needs to be at the right half wall to take 1-timers from Pouliot. The last spot is between Letang (who would play at the left half wall as a playmaker of sorts, which slides Perron down to the Stamkos sniping spot) or Crosby (who would play down low on the left side, which keeps Perron as the right hand trigger man at the half wall). Either one would work, but seeing Crosby's ineffectiveness on the PP and Pouliot's rawness defensively, I'd go with Letang. That also basically sets up the shooters as Pouliot, Malkin and Perron, which works nicely.

 

[deczola]

Bolded: Perron has the best right handed shot on the Pens, and he's excellent at putting bad angle shots on net.
Underlined: Pouliot is our best PPQB as of right now

Are you watching the games this year? Kunitz doesn't deserve to sniff PP time right now.

OMG Power Play QB and Perron. Perron himself would laugh at that notion.

 

[ColePens]

Move as in positionally? The Flyers have basically zero moment on their PP once set. Once set, they move the puck back and forth to get a higher scoring chance. Quick puck movement is the key.

Yikes. Your assessment of hockey is not correct.

 

[penguins2946*]

OMG Power Play QB and Perron. Perron himself would laugh at that notion.

Yikes. Your assessment of hockey is not correct.

Yeah, what Cole said. You really seem to not know what you're talking about. And Perron would laugh at the notion that he's the best right handed shooter on the team? Who's better than him? Having a stationary PP is not a good thing. I don't agree with Cole on the extent, but there has to be some movement. I like more of an order PP, where basically the guy at the top and the 2 guys on the half walls just fire shots and the other guys get the rebounds with not much movement. Still, there needs to be some movement. Just standing in 1 spot makes it very easy to defend.

Movement in powerplays is good because it gets the defensemen out of position, which opens up passing lanes that can be exploited. Just standing in 1 spot is extremely easy to defend. The PKers are never out of position because they barely have to move, and it's very easy to counter basically any puck movement. There would be no quick passing, because there would be no lanes available other than where the puck just came from or on the perimeter. No movement on a powerplay is an extremely bad thing.

 

[billybudd]

Penguins configuration was almost identical to the Flyers' up until Hornqvist got hurt and we acquired Perron. Biggest difference between theirs and ours is that one of 87 or 71 would need to be right-handed to get the same results.

Other difference is that Giroux doesn't force backhand passes to Voracek through the box. If he doesn't have a shot, he either sends it to Simmonds at the goal line (Simmonds either tries to stuff it or touches it to Schenn(?) in the middle, who is usually closing if Simmonds gets it), around the boards to Voracek or to Strait at the top of the point.

You are right that it involves very little movement by anybody but Schenn. The Flyers don't have to move because every guy is always standing in position for a one-timer and nobody on the unit over-passes. The other team always has to play the shot, no matter who has the puck.

That said, that's not the only way to score on a powerplay, just one way.

 

[penguins2946*]

Penguins configuration was almost identical to the Flyers' up until Hornqvist got hurt and we acquired Perron. Biggest difference between theirs and ours is that one of 87 or 71 would need to be right-handed to get the same results.

Other difference is that Giroux doesn't force backhand passes to Voracek through the box. If he doesn't have a shot, he either sends it to Simmonds at the goal line, around the boards to Voracek or to Strait at the top of the point.

And the Flyers PP actually shoots the puck. That's another big difference.

 

[billybudd]

And the Flyers PP actually shoots the puck. That's another big difference.

Yeah, I edited that in, lol

 

[fedfed]

Hi guys,

Not here to rub last night in your face or something. I think you'll apreciate thoughts from an outside observer.

I think what your team lacks is a good PP coach.

The Caps had the same problems three years ago. Adam Oates when he came in promoted video coach Blaine Forsythe to run the PP. Forsythe had a vision of how it should be done and Oates backed it and gave him carte blanche.

I don't see that on the Pens, I don't see any sort of strategy on the PP. What I see is "Crosby and Malkin are two of the best players in the world, give them the puck and see what happens."

It could be a sign of one of three things:
a) the coaching staff don't really know what to do on the PP;
b) they can't articulate that to the players clearly;
or c) it's too complicated for this group.

In the first two cases, bringing a new PP coach looks like the only option. In third case, it might be worthwhile to try something else with the same personnel behind the bench.

 

[KIRK]

I have a simpler solution. Move. It's simple. Work low, move, and shoot.

Moving creates lanes and keeps the defense honest/reacting. Shooting creates second chances and, I know it sounds crazy, goals.

Puck support okay?

One thing I do want: I want where Geno is moving to be in positions where he can take one timers, same for Perron.

End of the day, there are two philosophical choices that COULD work:

1. Play a shoot always and crash game. Pens have the personnel to do that but won't deploy them appropriately.

2. Lot of movement where one of Sid or Geno ALWAYS is in motion where the aim is to create isolated 2 on 1's in good scoring areas to generate high percentage opportunities. BUT, that means movement, support, and a willingness to pull the trigger when that high percentage opportunity comes.

Hi guys,

Not here to rub last night in your face or something. I think you'll apreciate thoughts from an outside observer.

I think what your team lacks is a good PP coach.

The Caps had the same problems three years ago. Adam Oates when he came in promoted video coach Blaine Forsythe to run the PP. Forsythe had a vision of how it should be done and Oates backed it and gave him carte blanche.

I don't see that on the Pens, I don't see any sort of strategy on the PP. What I see is "Crosby and Malkin are two of the best players in the world, give them the puck and see what happens."

It could be a sign of one of three things:
a) the coaching staff don't really know what to do on the PP;
b) they can't articulate that to the players clearly;
or c) it's too complicated for this group.

In the first two cases, bringing a new PP coach looks like the only option. In third case, it might be worthwhile to try something else with the same personnel behind the bench.

Nice input.

And, you nailed this: Breakout and in zone concept of puck support is this: Crosby or Malkin are expected to beat 1 or 2 guys and then find themselves without support even where they do.

Here's another problem: Team's best shooters either not utilized or not put into position to fire one timers (imagine, for example, Ovi being put at the right point/right circle area and told to stay there . . . lunacy).

 

[Ugene Magic]

I have a simpler solution. Move. It's simple. Work low, move, and shoot.

Moving creates lanes and keeps the defense honest/reacting. Shooting creates second chances and, I know it sounds crazy, goals.

This.


Along with move puck fast. The second they start guessing/looking holding onto the puck it has already failed. (Sid)<--looking at you.

 

[gdsmack267]

First Unit

- Crosby at the right post
- Malkin on right half wall
- Pouliot at center point
- Perron at left half wall
- Hornqvist in the crease


Second Unit

- Sutter at right half wall
- Downie on the post
- Kunitz in the crease
- Ehrhoff at center point
- Letang at left half wall

 

[KIRK]

Penguins configuration was almost identical to the Flyers' up until Hornqvist got hurt and we acquired Perron. Biggest difference between theirs and ours is that one of 87 or 71 would need to be right-handed to get the same results.

Other difference is that Giroux doesn't force backhand passes to Voracek through the box. If he doesn't have a shot, he either sends it to Simmonds at the goal line (Simmonds either tries to stuff it or touches it to Schenn(?) in the middle, who is usually closing if Simmonds gets it), around the boards to Voracek or to Strait at the top of the point.

You are right that it involves very little movement by anybody but Schenn. The Flyers don't have to move because every guy is always standing in position for a one-timer and nobody on the unit over-passes. The other team always has to play the shot, no matter who has the puck.

That said, that's not the only way to score on a powerplay, just one way.

One other difference:

Giroux is a shooter in the left circle. The guy on the Pens closest to that is Perron.

Voracek is the shooter in the right circle. The guy on the Pens closest to that is Geno.

In other words, the Flyers put their best shooters into positions where they can shoot the puck.

The Pens don't do that. The configuration may have been similar, but that misses the purpose behind why the Flyers use and are successful with that configuration.

Honestly, if it were me . . .

Pouliot center point, like the old Gonchar position. Perron roves up and down the left side working for one timers. Geno works up and down the right side doing the same. Horny net front. And, Sid roves all over the place supporting everyone and trying to create isolated 2 on 1's and otherwise pull PK's out of their boxes to open up shooting lanes and passing lanes to the three shooters.

 

[SuburbanRhythm]

Honest question

Can anyone point out the last time Crosby took a shot from the circle on the PP?

It becomes really simple to defend when it's effectively a 4-on-4 with a bunch of forced passes.

The guy on the wall must be willing to shoot. Sid, clearly, is not.

 

[gopens66]

Pens should do the same exact thing. Crosby on right side. Malkin on left. Hornie in front of net. Letang at point. Kunitz between the circles. The PP is entirely QB by Crosby and Malkin. They get to make simple plays and when teams overplay them, than use the simple back to point and get in on net play.

I agree that I like Philly's set-up.

However, Giroux is set up on the left side because he's a right-handed shot. Voracek is on the right, because he's a left-handed shot. That's why it works.

Malkin is by far the best option on the right side. When Crosby was most effective on the PP was down low, next to or behind the goal. Either they stopped deploying him that way or he refuses to be deployed that way anymore.

Letang has historically and consistently made the most bad decisions with the puck on the powerplay. Not only have his decisions been poor, but his passing has been poor as well.

You scoffed at the notion of Pouliot being a PPQB, yet he has already shown more poise and better decision-making than Letang, as well as having a willingness to shoot the puck. More importantly, he shoots when he should shoot it.

Putting Malkin on the left side is as bad a suggestion as I've heard for solving the Pens PP woes.

Now that Hornqvist is healthy again, Kunitz should not be anywhere near the top powerplay.

Then you laugh at the idea that Perron is the Pens best right-handed shooter?

The biggest problems with the Pens' powerplay are Crosby and Letang's decision making and the fact that Kunitz doesn't show the hustle, grit, or desire he once had.

Kunitz should be replaced by Hornqvist.

Letang won't be replaced by Pouliot because of his paycheck and the fact that Pouliot most likely won't be dressed for the playoffs.

They won't sit Sid for a few PP's because he's Sid, the captain, and that wouldn't look good for him.

 

[Shwag33]

Honest question

Can anyone point out the last time Crosby took a shot from the circle on the PP?

It becomes really simple to defend when it's effectively a 4-on-4 with a bunch of forced passes.

The guy on the wall must be willing to shoot. Sid, clearly, is not.

Malkin needs to be there. Crosby is a detriment to the PP in that spot. It's not that he's not even the best option, he may be one of the worst options.

 

[pensfan71]

IF our PP was going at a rate at 25% (it should do this year in year out with the talent we have), we would not only be in 1st, we would be thinking Stanley Cup contender.

Take a page out of the Flyers book who really have a very good simple PP. They do this: left side Claude - right side JV. From there they have Simmonds in front of the net, Schenn between the circles and Streit at the point. They play a very simple two man game and when that does not work, it goes to Streit at point or it's jammed to the net for Simmonds to whack away.

Pens should do the same exact thing. Crosby on right side. Malkin on left. Hornie in front of net. Letang at point. Kunitz between the circles. The PP is entirely QB by Crosby and Malkin. They get to make simple plays and when teams overplay them, than use the simple back to point and get in on net play.

Spacing on our PP is horrible. Too many forced passes by Sid......heck, I would say clueless passes. Need to make this much more simple. Need to break it down to instead of the PP being 5 on 4, with some quick strong simple smart passes we cut that down to a 3 on 2 or 2 on 1 situation.

You're taking away Geno's greatest asset which is his shot by putting him on the left side.

Can we all be clear here, Sid has DONE NOTHING on the right side. If he doesn't want to play down low where his talents lie, take him off the top PP, I completely advocate this type of thinking. Perron should be in the slot, he's got one of the more accurate shots on the team. Horny is the net front. Letang or Martin can play the left circle. And DP can be the QB at the top of the umbrella. He's intelligent and the PP is where he'll make his money. Mark my words.

 

[pensfan71]

OMG Power Play QB and Perron. Perron himself would laugh at that notion.

You sure you're a Pens fan?

Have you actually watched a game?