Potential awards winners/team situations that were mentioned part season but look funny now

[Michael Farkas]

Flyers had a 10 up, 10 down under Hakstol, did they not...?

 

[Big Phil]

One thing I have always found funny living in Toronto and, for a long time, working in the sports media in Toronto is the little "bubble" that many Maple Leaf fans live in.

There's something unique about that fan base where you have a lot of fans that consider themselves big Leaf fans but at the same time they are not very big NHL fans. So you get this strange paradox where they know a lot about their team and they don't know very much about the rest of the league. It leads to strange and often erroneous opinions of the values of their players and, of course, the value of players on other teams.

Because a lot of the local media, particularly the Toronto Sun, shamelessly pump the tires of Leaf players a lot of the fans that fall into the aforementioned category think the team is often populated with top players in the league. Even when the team was going a decade without a playoff spot the local media is often fawning over them and exaggerating their value and their worth.

So for example, Bryan McCabe, who was mentioned in this thread... When he was traded the Leafs had to add a draft pick to him in order to get Mike Van Ryn. I remember when that deal happened, the local radio stations were overwhelmed with people that didn't understand how they didn't get way more for Bryan McCabe and... why did the Leafs have to add a draft pick to McCabe... and also... who was Mike Van Ryn?

There is that bubble and this thought of being at the centre of hockey's universe. I've never gotten that. I guess I have always been as much of a critic of the Leafs as a fan. I've always been a fan but when you don't win a Cup in 52 years you tend to have a "prove it to me first" mentality. So I never got the McCabe thing. McCabe was a fine defenseman to have on your team for certain situations. But you needed a defenseman better than him if you were going to win the Cup, I always thought.

 

[Big Phil]

The Ottawa Senators started the 07-08 season on fire. There was talk if they would surpass the Wings points record from 95-96. They then proceeded to fall of a cliff after Christmas. Paddock's employment was terminated. They were absolutely embarrassed in a 4 game sweep by the Pens. At the start of that season I thought Ottawa was neck and neck with Detroit as top cup contenders.

If I recall, they had the best start in NHL history. No kidding. They were 16-3-0. Yeah, but the 1977 Habs started better than that right? Wrong. 14-3-3. The Habs, unlike the Sens, got better as the season went on and lost a total of 8 games. It is one thing to win games in October, even the modern day Buffalo Sabres have done that before, but another thing to maintain it and win during road trips and stretch drives when things tighten up.

I remember the idea that they could be the 1977 Habs. I thought it was nuts. Come on now, look at the roster, this is not a team nearly deep enough to even consider this.

 

[FerrisRox]

There is that bubble and this thought of being at the centre of hockey's universe. I've never gotten that. I guess I have always been as much of a critic of the Leafs as a fan. I've always been a fan but when you don't win a Cup in 52 years you tend to have a "prove it to me first" mentality. So I never got the McCabe thing. McCabe was a fine defenseman to have on your team for certain situations. But you needed a defenseman better than him if you were going to win the Cup, I always thought.

Yeah, one of the odd things about the bubble is how little criticism there is. There seems to be an unspoken inferiority complex at play (which, considering the decades and decades and decades of failure, I understand) but it seems to lead to an odd over compensation. So many people get brought in and there's never a need for them to prove themselves before the adoration. Brian Burke arrived and was anointed a genius. Brendan Shanahan, despite zero experience, was heralded as an amazing hire. Kyle Dubas, despite zero experience ... genius. It's odd. You would think, Toronto, of all places, would be a really tough, cut throat market but really it's a sweetheart place to play where you are lauded and celebrated despite abject failure and zero results.

You can count on one hand the guys that got a rough ride in this market - Larry Murphy, James Reimer, for a few weeks Jake Gardiner. It's a strange market because you would think being a large Canadian market with a ton of history it would have the pressure of playing for the Yankees, or Canadiens or Cowboys, but it really doesn't. Everything is great in the bubble.

 

[Big Phil]

Yeah, one of the odd things about the bubble is how little criticism there is. There seems to be an unspoken inferiority complex at play (which, considering the decades and decades and decades of failure, I understand) but it seems to lead to an odd over compensation. So many people get brought in and there's never a need for them to prove themselves before the adoration. Brian Burke arrived and was anointed a genius. Brendan Shanahan, despite zero experience, was heralded as an amazing hire. Kyle Dubas, despite zero experience ... genius. It's odd. You would think, Toronto, of all places, would be a really tough, cut throat market but really it's a sweetheart place to play where you are lauded and celebrated despite abject failure and zero results.

You can count on one hand the guys that got a rough ride in this market - Larry Murphy, James Reimer, for a few weeks Jake Gardiner. It's a strange market because you would think being a large Canadian market with a ton of history it would have the pressure of playing for the Yankees, or Canadiens or Cowboys, but it really doesn't. Everything is great in the bubble.

Sort of great. Sundin always had backhanded compliments towards him. Kessel was a major whipping boy from day one. There were untouchables. Sittler, Gilmour, Clark, even Salming would never get a negative thing said about them.

I think there is just this desperation for success that we crown everyone a winner before they actually win. I'll be honest, I never liked Brian Burke in there. Couldn't stand him from the days when he was Bettman's right hand man and he continued until he was blue in the face to defend the dreaded crease rule despite the harm it caused. A great GM will make mistakes but acknowledge it right away and fix them. So if he was that stubborn working for the NHL why do I want him as my GM?

I have also never liked Kyle "Lenscrafters" Dubas. Yeah, as you can see I will give a nickname to them. We have Lou and we replace him with the kid who didn't let you copy his math test?

So as you can see, I will be as critical as they come with the Leafs because I don't fall into the "wait till next year" group.

Basically what Toronto is becoming is Chicago...........and by that I mean Chicago Cubs fans. Loyal, content, will show up even if you lose, might complain but will still buy the product, etc.

 

[Normand Lacombe]

Out to prove their run to the 1996 Final was not a fluke, Florida got off to a blazing start in 96-97. They went undefeated in October with a 8-0-4 mark. On November 19, the Panthers were sitting in 1st place in the Atlantic when GM Bryan Murray made an ill advised trade, sending Stu Barnes and Jason Woolley to Pittsburgh for Chris Wells. Barnes was an instrumental part of the run to the Finals, while Woolley was a serviceable defenseman with some offense in his game. Wells was a former 1st round bust of Pittsburgh, whose only attribute was his 6'6 frame.

After the trade, Florida immediately went on a 6 game unbeaten streak to improve their record to 16-3-6, their high water mark of the season. But the trade messed up Florida's chemistry. From December 3 through the end of the regular season, Florida went 19-25-13 to finish in 3th place. The Rangers eliminated the Panthers in five games in the first round of the playoffs, despite Beezer's stellar .929 SV %.

 

[FerrisRox]

Sort of great. Sundin always had backhanded compliments towards him. Kessel was a major whipping boy from day one.

Sundin always got backhanded compliments, largely from a Cherry-esque place of xenophobia it seemed, but he still got a pretty sweet ride here.

Make no mistake, he was an excellent player, but he was definitely lifted to a level above his output by the fans here. For example, there were seasons where his output was pretty much the same as Pavol Demitra, yet the "Bubble" Leaf fans would tell you Sundin was one of the top players in the league and they weren't exactly sure who Pavol Demitra was.

Ditto for Phil Kessel. In any other "major" NHL market, a player with the laziness that he exhibited defensively and the maddening lack of passion he sometimes displayed as the centre piece for a team that repeatedly missed the playoffs and cost the team the draft picks that produced Doug Hamilton and Tyler Seguin would have got an extremely rough ride and chased out of town. He was, for the most part, adored in Toronto and strenuously defended and propped up by the fans. It's an extremely forgiving market for the "desperate for success" reasons you outlined. They like to pretend it's a high-pressure market, because it makes it sound like they are the Yankees, but the reality it has to be the most forgiving place to play in the world because of the Emperors Got No Clothes syndrome. If they pretend that Phil Kessel has no warts, maybe it will be true. If they pretend that Dion Phaneuf is actually a top pairing blueline "playing the toughest minutes of anyone in the league, maybe it will be true. If they pretend that James Van Riemsdyk isn't a defensive tire fire who's absolutely useless unless he has the puck on his stick within seven feet of the net, maybe it's true. If they pretend that having Jake Gardiner logging 20+ minutes on your blueline is a damning indictment of how weak your blue line is, maybe it's true.

The funny thing is, when these players are gone, and no longer in the bubble, it's like they cease to exist. They act like all the crazy things they said about those players, the gross exaggerations, the flat out fabrications, the fevered defending of them aren't all cataloged for anyone to access and read here. Even stranger, they act like the people from outside the bubble who pointed out these issues and shortcomings all along are "biased" and "Leaf haters" completely ignoring the simple fact that what they were saying to them was true all along.

You are on to something with the Chicago Cubs, because there are some similarities there for sure, but as a fan bases, there's something very interesting going on and it involves a collective delusion, a crippling insecurity and a ton of unearned confidence and swagger and a sports media machine that steadily pumps them the Fox News style filtered coverage that gives them the version of things they want, not the one that exists in reality.

 

[Big Phil]

Sundin always got backhanded compliments, largely from a Cherry-esque place of xenophobia it seemed, but he still got a pretty sweet ride here.

Make no mistake, he was an excellent player, but he was definitely lifted to a level above his output by the fans here. For example, there were seasons where his output was pretty much the same as Pavol Demitra, yet the "Bubble" Leaf fans would tell you Sundin was one of the top players in the league and they weren't exactly sure who Pavol Demitra was.

Ditto for Phil Kessel. In any other "major" NHL market, a player with the laziness that he exhibited defensively and the maddening lack of passion he sometimes displayed as the centre piece for a team that repeatedly missed the playoffs and cost the team the draft picks that produced Doug Hamilton and Tyler Seguin would have got an extremely rough ride and chased out of town. He was, for the most part, adored in Toronto and strenuously defended and propped up by the fans. It's an extremely forgiving market for the "desperate for success" reasons you outlined. They like to pretend it's a high-pressure market, because it makes it sound like they are the Yankees, but the reality it has to be the most forgiving place to play in the world because of the Emperors Got No Clothes syndrome. If they pretend that Phil Kessel has no warts, maybe it will be true. If they pretend that Dion Phaneuf is actually a top pairing blueline "playing the toughest minutes of anyone in the league, maybe it will be true. If they pretend that James Van Riemsdyk isn't a defensive tire fire who's absolutely useless unless he has the puck on his stick within seven feet of the net, maybe it's true. If they pretend that having Jake Gardiner logging 20+ minutes on your blueline is a damning indictment of how weak your blue line is, maybe it's true.

The funny thing is, when these players are gone, and no longer in the bubble, it's like they cease to exist. They act like all the crazy things they said about those players, the gross exaggerations, the flat out fabrications, the fevered defending of them aren't all cataloged for anyone to access and read here. Even stranger, they act like the people from outside the bubble who pointed out these issues and shortcomings all along are "biased" and "Leaf haters" completely ignoring the simple fact that what they were saying to them was true all along.

You are on to something with the Chicago Cubs, because there are some similarities there for sure, but as a fan bases, there's something very interesting going on and it involves a collective delusion, a crippling insecurity and a ton of unearned confidence and swagger and a sports media machine that steadily pumps them the Fox News style filtered coverage that gives them the version of things they want, not the one that exists in reality.

I have to say the Kessel thing couldn't be further from the truth. I actually liked it when Kessel threw some punches back at idiot reporters who would veer off from the story but in reality if they just stuck to hockey then the truth is Kessel got ripped to shreds by the fans while he was in Toronto. Phaneuf? I don't know if there was a more hated captain. You are constantly in a fishbowl in Toronto and not always for good reasons either. This is why Sundin usually left the second the season ended and went back home to Sweden.

I will say this about Sundin, I liked him, but he was a player in NHL history who I thought looked better on the ice than his stats suggested. He could downright control the pace of the game and I always thought he was better than an 80 point man year after year. He just rarely had a decent winger play with him, that was always the case with him in Toronto.

 

[Nick Hansen]

I have to say the Kessel thing couldn't be further from the truth. I actually liked it when Kessel threw some punches back at idiot reporters who would veer off from the story but in reality if they just stuck to hockey then the truth is Kessel got ripped to shreds by the fans while he was in Toronto. Phaneuf? I don't know if there was a more hated captain. You are constantly in a fishbowl in Toronto and not always for good reasons either. This is why Sundin usually left the second the season ended and went back home to Sweden.

I will say this about Sundin, I liked him, but he was a player in NHL history who I thought looked better on the ice than his stats suggested. He could downright control the pace of the game and I always thought he was better than an 80 point man year after year. He just rarely had a decent winger play with him, that was always the case with him in Toronto.

I agree with you, don't understand that description either with regards to Kessel and Phaneuf. They got a TON of crap. It got so bad they didn't salute the fans at the end and before that had started to argue with reporters.

 

[Big Phil]

I agree with you, don't understand that description either with regards to Kessel and Phaneuf. They got a TON of crap. It got so bad they didn't salute the fans at the end and before that had started to argue with reporters.

You know, I actually agreed with them for once on the no saluting thing. Personally I can't stand the saluting thing. It is so orchestrated and scripted and is about as un-genuine as you can get. I never get why the fans demand that the players wave at them on the ice win or lose. So I am with them on that one, but yeah, they are not remembered well, fair or not.

 

[CharlestownChiefsESC]

As a RANGER fan this thread sticks out big time. In 01-02 the RANGERS went on a tear from halloween to mid January. Led by a resurgent Eric Lindros and the fly line (York Lindros Fleury) a 2nd line of Nedved and Dvorak and a rotating cast of lws and Mark Messier,Manny Malhotra and others rounding out the bottom 6 along with Brian Leetch and Mike Richter playing the last elite hockey of thier careers. The team found themselves on top of the division and conference on New Years Day 2002 with of all teams the Islanders right behind them and the games between the 2 screamed rivalry renewed. All while the 2 preseason favorites NJ and Philly struggled. It got so good that some people considered the RANGERS cup contenders while others were just hoping for a return to the playoffs for the first time since 97.

So what happened you ask? Lindros got hurt in January as did Messier. Theo Fleury's old problems came back to haunt him. Leetch and Richter blew thier loads at the Olympics and Richter also got hurt. The team flamed out and despite making a trade for Pavel Bure and a desperate push at the playoffs they missed again. All while seeing Philly and nj pass them. But man it was a fun few months

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

for a few weeks Jake Gardiner.

Ummmm...

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

I have also never liked Kyle "Lenscrafters" Dubas. Yeah, as you can see I will give a nickname to them. We have Lou and we replace him with the kid who didn't let you copy his math test?

This is one of the best roasts Ive read in a long time

 

[ESH]

Yeah, one of the odd things about the bubble is how little criticism there is. There seems to be an unspoken inferiority complex at play (which, considering the decades and decades and decades of failure, I understand) but it seems to lead to an odd over compensation. So many people get brought in and there's never a need for them to prove themselves before the adoration. Brian Burke arrived and was anointed a genius. Brendan Shanahan, despite zero experience, was heralded as an amazing hire. Kyle Dubas, despite zero experience ... genius. It's odd. You would think, Toronto, of all places, would be a really tough, cut throat market but really it's a sweetheart place to play where you are lauded and celebrated despite abject failure and zero results.

You can count on one hand the guys that got a rough ride in this market - Larry Murphy, James Reimer, for a few weeks Jake Gardiner. It's a strange market because you would think being a large Canadian market with a ton of history it would have the pressure of playing for the Yankees, or Canadiens or Cowboys, but it really doesn't. Everything is great in the bubble.

You’re really underestimating the pressure to perform in a huge hockey market like Toronto. Phil Kessel was basically chased out of town in his last season. It’s a stressful place to be for hockey players I’m sure.

 

[FerrisRox]

You’re really underestimating the pressure to perform in a huge hockey market like Toronto. Phil Kessel was basically chased out of town in his last season. It’s a stressful place to be for hockey players I’m sure.

Pressure?

The team missed the playoffs for a decade and the fans still loved them and filled the arena and pretended they were great. If that's your idea of pressure, you should take a look at what its like to be a Montreal Canadien or a New York Yankee.

They would burn the Bell Centre to the ground if the team missed the playoffs for a decade. The children of Yankees players would be getting pulled out of school because of the venom they were receiving. Toronto is a sweetheart of a place to play because there's zero pressure to win. Win, you're the greatest the team is the best. Lose, you're the greatest, the team is the best. Pretty nice deal.

 

[ESH]

Pressure?

The team missed the playoffs for a decade and the fans still loved them and filled the arena and pretended they were great. If that's your idea of pressure, you should take a look at what its like to be a Montreal Canadien or a New York Yankee.

They would burn the Bell Centre to the ground if the team missed the playoffs for a decade. The children of Yankees players would be getting pulled out of school because of the venom they were receiving. Toronto is a sweetheart of a place to play because there's zero pressure to win. Win, you're the greatest the team is the best. Lose, you're the greatest, the team is the best. Pretty nice deal.

You’re willfully ignoring examples of that being not true. 3 different people in this thread have all corroborated that Kessel (and Phaneuf) got shredded by Toronto media for their team’s un-success.

 

[FerrisRox]

You’re willfully ignoring examples of that being not true. 3 different people in this thread have all corroborated that Kessel (and Phaneuf) got shredded by Toronto media for their team’s un-success.

Phaneuf caught heat because he was awful. Awful players will aways catch heat. And what Phaneuf got was pretty minor really. And let's not forget those teams were TERRIBLE. Like missing the playoffs for a decade terrible. Finishing last in the league terrible.

Pressure is when the players are getting shredded over a three game losing streak. Pressure is when the team misses the playoffs once and its unacceptable and people want heads to roll and players to be traded. Pressure is when a star goes on a bit of a slump and everyone is on him. It's not pressure when the team misses the playoffs for a decade and finishes dead last and people then get upset. You are proving my point, not yours, pointing to the end the Kessel/Phaneuf era as your proof of pressure.

I really don't think Kessel got a rough ride here at all. I certainly didn't see either one of these guys getting 'shredded' in the media.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

You’re willfully ignoring examples of that being not true. 3 different people in this thread have all corroborated that Kessel (and Phaneuf) got shredded by Toronto media for their team’s un-success.

i think the idea is kessel, neon dion, etc got a really long honeymoon before the fans turned on them. when fans started throwing jerseys onto the ice that was year four or five of them being together.

in montreal they start in on you if you don’t light it up in preseason.

that said, i do feel like toronto has been hard on puck moving defencemen, larry murphy and todd gill being the most spectacular examples of guys being put through the brisebois-esque wringer.

 

[Weztex]

As late as February 29th, 2004 (it was a leap year), Robert Lang was the NHL's leading scorer. He had a two point lead on eventual Art Ross / Hart winner Martin St. Louis. No disrespect to Lang, he had a good career, but he might have become the worst Art Ross winner in history.

Isn't he the only player ever traded while leading the league in points?

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Isn't he the only player ever traded while leading the league in points?

I believe so (but I'm not completely certain).

 

[CaptBrannigan]

I believe so (but I'm not completely certain).

Also kinda interesting here is he was injured in a game against...Marty St. Louis’ Lightning, who would pass him and win the scoring title.