Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread

[RoyalAir]

People on this website think we're exaggerating about what awful people ASG were.

I would like to think that, at least on these boards, the truth is finally out. The ASG was atrocious in every possible way.

Also, Thor has a great point about the support staff. The crew that ran things at the IceForum, from Stewart and his group to all the rest of the support staff, are what make the team feel like they have a home. I get why TNSE wanted to have their own crew, but it's honestly pretty cruel to uproot every player, move them across the continent, and then surround them with absolutely nothing that they can re-anchor themselves to.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I would like to think that, at least on these boards, the truth is finally out. The ASG was atrocious in every possible way.

Also, Thor has a great point about the support staff. The crew that ran things at the IceForum, from Stewart and his group to all the rest of the support staff, are what make the team feel like they have a home. I get why TNSE wanted to have their own crew, but it's honestly pretty cruel to uproot every player, move them across the continent, and then surround them with absolutely nothing that they can re-anchor themselves to.

So I wouldn't expect a whole lot of people to transfer to be honest.

Even more so than TNSE in Winnipeg, SEG has a whole portfolio of sports teams already with the Jazz and MLS's Real Salt Lake. An awful lot of the back-end support staff is already in place.

I think that's why Smith reached out to players himself almost immediately to try and speak with them before they dispersed.

As I recall from 2011, then-captain Andrew Ladd made the visit up to Winnipeg not too long after the move was announced, sat down with management. Supposedly he liked what he saw and reported back favourably to his teammates.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/atlanta-thrashers-captain-andrew-ladd-visits-what-could-be-his-new-home

But yes - the pro athletes will be fine, but it really is unfortunate for all the support staff (who didn't have million dollar salaries to fall back on in the first place).

 

[RoyalAir]

So I wouldn't expect a whole lot of people to transfer to be honest.

Even more so than TNSE in Winnipeg, SEG has a whole portfolio of sports teams already with the Jazz and MLS's Real Salt Lake. An awful lot of the back-end support staff is already in place.

I think that's why Smith reached out to players himself almost immediately to try and speak with them before they dispersed.

As I recall from 2011, then-captain Andrew Ladd made the visit up to Winnipeg not too long after the move was announced, sat down with management. Supposedly he liked what he saw and reported back favourably to his teammates.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/atlanta-thrashers-captain-andrew-ladd-visits-what-could-be-his-new-home

But yes - the pro athletes will be fine, but it really is unfortunate for all the support staff (who didn't have million dollar salaries to fall back on in the first place).

Equipment managers, who know every nuance and detail of the athlete, and the training staff are who I was specifically referencing. Bobby Stewart, the man I referenced in my original post, was a fixture at the Thrashers' practice facility. He moved to Calgary with the Flames, and then was brought back to ATL when 2.0 happened. That's exactly the kind of guy who you bring with you, or at the very least make a serious run at.

 

[aqib]

So who owns the Thrashers name? Did the league get it or did ASG keep it? If ASG kept it do the Hawks own it or do the old ASG owners have it?

 

[dj4aces]

So who owns the Thrashers name? Did the league get it or did ASG keep it? If ASG kept it do the Hawks own it or do the old ASG owners have it?

The present owner of the Thrashers trademark is the NHL. When the Gladiators hosted their Thrashers night games in December 2022 and February 2024, it was with the NHL's blessing and approval. From what I was told, the league didn't want anyone to simply sit on the trademark -- especially Atlanta Spirit.

 

[GreenHornet]

So who owns the Thrashers name? Did the league get it or did ASG keep it? If ASG kept it do the Hawks own it or do the old ASG owners have it?

My understanding is that the league owns the Thrashers name, colors, logo, branding, etc. The talk (or assumption, anyway) has been that if the Krause group gets an expansion franchise, he'd also acquire all that from the league and the team would be called the Thrashers again. Don't know if there is a plan if Anson Carter's group gets a franchise (or what it is if there is one).

 

[RoyalAir]

My understanding is that the league owns the Thrashers name, colors, logo, branding, etc. The talk (or assumption, anyway) has been that if the Krause group gets an expansion franchise, he'd also acquire all that from the league and the team would be called the Thrashers again. Don't know if there is a plan if Anson Carter's group gets a franchise (or what it is if there is one).

For some reason, I want to say that somehow ASG owned Thrash, though. Or at least, it didn't go back to the NHL immediately. There was talk, briefly, about the Braves adopting him as mascot kinda like the Habs did for Youppi!, but the Braves made mention that the Thrash concept wasn't available, and was still locked up with ASG.

Thrash was, by far, the most popular mascot in town, and at the time the Braves didn't have the Blooper character that they have now.

 

[dj4aces]

There was talk, briefly, about the Braves adopting him as mascot kinda like the Habs did for Youppi!, but the Braves made mention that the Thrash concept wasn't available, and was still locked up with ASG.

From the multiple people who shared details with me at the time, Atlanta Spirit controlled exactly zero of the Thrashers name, legacy, likenesses, trademarks, colors, logos, or entities thereof after the Board of Governors officially approved the sale and relocation of the Thrashers to Winnipeg.

It's possible my contacts were wrong, but if they were, it'd be the one thing they were wrong about. From what I was told, it was a part of the sales agreement, and was one of the things Atlanta Spirit wasn't happy about.

 

[KevFu]

I think Atlanta is in a position here to nearly 100% get a team by 2030 here. If Arizona and Meurelo can get their building erected and reactivate the Coyotes as team #33, it won't be long until the NHL wants to even things up with #34.

I think there's no reason Atlanta couldn't BEAT the return of the Coyotes. As long as the investors have $2 billion to give the NHL. If someone wants to pay $2 billion for the Atlanta Thrashers 2.0, it's gonna happen.

The present owner of the Thrashers trademark is the NHL. When the Gladiators hosted their Thrashers night games in December 2022 and February 2024, it was with the NHL's blessing and approval. From what I was told, the league didn't want anyone to simply sit on the trademark -- especially Atlanta Spirit.

I think the NHL has genuinely learned from past mistakes. Like the mistake of the Hartford Whalers' trademarks lapsing and being "abandoned," prompted the NHL to go get them.

When the Thrashers moved to Winnipeg, the Arizona Coyotes were owned by the NHL.
The NHL owns the Thrashers branding now.

I'd assume that it was a simple 1-for-1 trade with TNSE: Jets IP for Thrashers IP.


What gives me pause though, is that in the EA Sports NHL games amid expansion (I have not bought recent editions... ) you can create a team using old logos for current franchises, including the Atlanta Flames, California Seals, Colorado Rockies, Hartford Whalers, Kansas City Scouts, Minnesota North Stars, Quebec Nordiques, and OG Winnipeg Jets. But not the Thrashers?

I don't know if that was a legal choice or a PR choice.

 

[aqib]

Ok I found this article from 2011 in which Don Waddell says "They bought the assets of the company, excluding name and logo,” Waddell said. “That remains with our ownership group, Atlanta Spirit.”

So did they owners keep it when they sold the Hawks, did they sell it to the league, or did it go with the Hawks?

GDPR Support

 

[RoyalAir]

From the multiple people who shared details with me at the time, Atlanta Spirit controlled exactly zero of the Thrashers name, legacy, likenesses, trademarks, colors, logos, or entities thereof after the Board of Governors officially approved the sale and relocation of the Thrashers to Winnipeg.

It's possible my contacts were wrong, but if they were, it'd be the one thing they were wrong about. From what I was told, it was a part of the sales agreement, and was one of the things Atlanta Spirit wasn't happy about.

I'm certain you are correct. This is highly likely to be my unreliable memory.

 

[dj4aces]

Ok I found this article from 2011 in which Don Waddell says "They bought the assets of the company, excluding name and logo,” Waddell said. “That remains with our ownership group, Atlanta Spirit.”

If that's true, then my contacts were wrong. It means at some point, the NHL took control of everything Thrashers, but the league absolutely owns that stuff now.

Edit: According to Justia, there was an "automatic update of assignment of ownership" to the trademark on 13 July 2011, and a "assignment of ownership not updated automatically" on 8 October 2014. One of these two dates is when the league took control of the trademark, but according to the trademark page, the NHL is the second owner, and Atlanta Hockey Club LLC is the first. This would mean that, at the latest, Atlanta Hockey Club LLC existed until 2014.

Tony Ressler, the current owner of the Atlanta Hawks, completed his purchase of the franchise in April 2015.

 

[PredsfanJC]

I think for a lot of folks who stomped around the old Atlanta threads, they may have thought we were exaggerating, but I feel like most of them have come to realize that it really was that bad.

The ASG were feckless morons who didn't earn or deserve to own anything. I wouldn't let them run a car wash, as they would find a way to f*** that up.

 

[sneakytitz]

Ok I found this article from 2011 in which Don Waddell says "They bought the assets of the company, excluding name and logo,” Waddell said. “That remains with our ownership group, Atlanta Spirit.”

So did they owners keep it when they sold the Hawks, did they sell it to the league, or did it go with the Hawks?

GDPR Support

Don is wrong. Here are the trademarks:

Trademark Status & Document Retrieval

Trademark Status & Document Retrieval

Trademark Status & Document Retrieval

 

[dj4aces]

Don is wrong. Here are the trademarks:

Trademark Status & Document Retrieval

Trademark Status & Document Retrieval

Trademark Status & Document Retrieval

Top notch research! This had completely slipped my mind. Real life has been a real chore today.

For those who don't want to read it all, and from the first link in particular: Under "Assignment 3" in the "Assignment Abstract of Title Information" section, it shows that Atlanta Hockey Club, LLC (Atlanta Spirit) transferred ownership of the trademark to the NHL on 6 July 2011.

 

[sneakytitz]

The ASG were feckless morons who didn't earn or deserve to own anything. I wouldn't let them run a car wash, as they would find a way to f*** that up.

I had an idea to pitch a 30 for 30 about Atlanta sports called "Championships Are For Other Cities" but after we won a few I think my new focus should be on the Atlanta Spirit Group and what an absolute clusterf*** that was (and I need to get on that because the Thrashers coming back would be the best conclusion/crescendo to the story).

That said, not every ASG member was bad. 9 people should never own a team, but that is another story. Bud, Beau, Seydel, and Gearon were far from inept, evil, incompetent, etc. The problem was largely Belkin and Levenson. When Belkin veto'd the Joe Johnson trade, that was the beginning of the end of the Thrashers because that ultimately culminated in Belkin's buy-out (unexpected expense likely in the order of ~$80-100 million) plus six-years of legal fees that (ongoing, unexpected expense in the millions).

Were the Thrashers losing money at the end? Doubt it, but maybe, maybe a bit (and we can get into how a few sabotaged that - namely Levenson, Foreman, and PESKO). Did a group of owners that didn't really have a lot of money to begin with suddenly face an unexpected buyout and need to get rid of an asset to fund it? Yes, and that was it for the Thrashers.

 

[rojac]

Top notch research! This had completely slipped my mind. Real life has been a real chore today.

For those who don't want to read it all, and from the first link in particular: Under "Assignment 3" in the "Assignment Abstract of Title Information" section, it shows that Atlanta Hockey Club, LLC (Atlanta Spirit) transferred ownership of the trademark to the NHL on 6 July 2011.

And the article quoting Waddell was dated June 1, 2011, a month before the transfer. His quote was likely accurate at the time he made it.

 

[aqib]

And the article quoting Waddell was dated June 1, 2011, a month before the transfer. His quote was likely accurate at the time he made it.

ok so its solved. ASG retained it and then it got transferred to the league later.

 

[GreenHornet]

I had an idea to pitch a 30 for 30 about Atlanta sports called "Championships Are For Other Cities" but after we won a few I think my new focus should be on the Atlanta Spirit Group and what an absolute clusterf*** that was (and I need to get on that because the Thrashers coming back would be the best conclusion/crescendo to the story).

That said, not every ASG member was bad. 9 people should never own a team, but that is another story. Bud, Beau, Seydel, and Gearon were far from inept, evil, incompetent, etc. The problem was largely Belkin and Levenson. When Belkin veto'd the Joe Johnson trade, that was the beginning of the end of the Thrashers because that ultimately culminated in Belkin's buy-out (unexpected expense likely in the order of ~$80-100 million) plus six-years of legal fees that (ongoing, unexpected expense in the millions).

Were the Thrashers losing money at the end? Doubt it, but maybe, maybe a bit (and we can get into how a few sabotaged that - namely Levenson, Foreman, and PESKO). Did a group of owners that didn't really have a lot of money to begin with suddenly face an unexpected buyout and need to get rid of an asset to fund it? Yes, and that was it for the Thrashers.

If you ever get the 30-for-30 made, I think it should be titled something like "$eptocluster™: Tentacles of a Sporting Disaster."

As for the rest, I don't think all of the ones you listed were quite so innocent (Gearon, in particular, based on things I've heard).

And while Belkin was at the heart of the dispute that underscored the disfunction of the group, he wasn't wrong about objecting to the deal that grossly overpaid "Iso Joe" (as Johnson came to be called) to the point where the Hawks became the laughing stock of the league in no small part because of that deal.

I do, however, agree that Levenson was a major part of the problem -- perhaps THE major part of the problem.

 

[sneakytitz]

And while Belkin was at the heart of the dispute that underscored the disfunction of the group, he wasn't wrong about objecting to the deal that grossly overpaid "Iso Joe" (as Johnson came to be called) to the point where the Hawks became the laughing stock of the league in no small part because of that deal.

I don't agree with that at all; those Hawks teams were never a laughing stock of the league. The Terry Stotts/Lon Kruger teams were the laughing stock of the league.

When Joe and Woodson joined, they quickly turned that franchise around and in 3 seasons started a streak of 5 consecutive playoff teams with Joe. That 2008 series with Boston had this city ELECTRIC. One game away from taking down the eventual champions.

He also helped pull the Hawks out of the bottom 5 of attendance, and they have never returned.

Now, his second contract with Atlanta - that was garbage, but Danny Ferry worked his magic and got that off the books.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The Utah name has me thinking,

What should be the name of the potential Atlanta team?

 

[RoyalAir]

The Utah name has me thinking,

What should be the name of the potential Atlanta team?

I don't see a scenario where it's not the Georgia Thrashers.

Atlanta doesn't make a ton of sense, because neither arena site is in the ATL city limits, and the thrasher is the state bird.

Now, all that said, I like combining the two previous names, and the city's nickname/seal, and going with the Atlanta Phoenix. Very similar to the Firebirds of the AHL.

 

[dj4aces]

The Utah name has me thinking,

What should be the name of the potential Atlanta team?

My opinion is, the "Thrashers" name is cursed. The team needs a bona fide fresh start, and the first step in that process is a new name. It could be named the Georgia Swamp Monsters, for all I care, I'd just prefer a different name.

However, I can't see a scenario where the "Thrashers" name isn't re-used. Perhaps the brand can be rehabilitated. As for whether it will be a "Georgia" team or an "Atlanta" team is a decision ownership will have to make. Personally speaking though, I can't see it not being "Atlanta", but I'm not a member of any group attempting to purchase a franchise.

 

[nhlfan79]

I don't see a scenario where it's not the Georgia Thrashers.

That's the only name I'd like less than Atlanta Thrashers. North Atlanta is still Atlanta, generically speaking, so there's no value in being beholden to hypertechnical geography. They're not now the Georgia Braves, for example, because they play in Cobb County outside Atlanta city limits.

For marketing and branding purposes, there's nothing to be gained by naming an ice hockey team after the state, and being the only local pro sports team named the "Georgia" anything. Save Georgia for Bulldogs. They have the naming monopoly on that one.

 

[BMN]

That's the only name I'd like less than Atlanta Thrashers. North Atlanta is still Atlanta, generically speaking, so there's no value in being beholden to hypertechnical geography.

As I've said many times, I was a staunch ITPer. But it's absurd to imagine that the 49ers have no problem being the "San Francisco 49ers" in Santa Clara or that both the Jets & Giants play in New Jersey, then make the leap that someone would have trouble naming an Alpharetta team "Atlanta."

It comes down to if the primary hockey audience in the area identifies with "Georgia" more than "Atlanta" or vice-versa. Neither would be sacrosanct.