Potential Atlanta NHL Expansion Team Thread

[GKJ]

I mean we got word that Tilman and Krause were in NYC yesterday at NHL HQ - I have to imagine that had either most or everything to do with what is happening today.

If you equate that to ‘when did Gary Bettman have dinner with Ryan Smith?’ that was over a year ago.

 

[KevFu]

If you equate that to ‘when did Gary Bettman have dinner with Ryan Smith?’ that was over a year ago.

And it sounds like he's now on the cusp of getting a team.

Not that meeting with the NHL guarantees a team. I'm just saying that the NHL has heard pitches; they've mentioned markets. They seem to have a pretty good handle on HOW to expand now.

If they seem confident in adding SLC within the next 3-5 years, then having them swap franchises with Arizona makes perfect sense.

If they go to 33 teams, stands to reason they add a 34th, 35th and 36th sooner rather than later (Remember that "sooner" is still like eight years from when "Vegas and Seattle looks to be a done deal" and Kraken actually played).

With ATL with two bidding groups, Houston adding ice and the owner saying he's interested, and QC standing ever ready... it all just makes sense.

Solving the PHX problem with a SLC/ARZ swap, and going to 36 with PHX in the Pacific, SLC and HOU in the Central, ATL in the Metro and QC in the Atlantic; which adds 2 major markets and rights the wrong in QC... that all seems orderly, thoughtful and logical.

 

[GKJ]

And it sounds like he's now on the cusp of getting a team.

I started that thread on March 31, 2023. It would be reasonable to anticipate an expansion announcement in 13-14 months.

 

[KevFu]

I was editing my post to sound less snarky.

Expansion timelines and business in general just takes way longer than we think/expect.

The writing was on the wall for Vegas/Seattle back in like 2014. And Seattle is playing year three now.

 

[Melrose Munch]

What makes you think the league is the one leaking it?

This is a BOG memo. Where else did it come from?

 

[sneakytitz]

I started that thread on March 31, 2023. It would be reasonable to anticipate an expansion announcement in 13-14 months.

Feasible, and they'd have one more summer after that to announce 35/36 (if that is the plan) before the current CBA expires. Tight timelines but certainly doable. That announcement would jive with Forsyth Counties' revisions to the MoU, or at least it wouldn't screw with Krause's plan and the contingencies would then be moot.

Perhaps that was the meeting yesterday, at least with Krause - we've got Arizona settled and yes, we're going to announce Atlanta next summer, so don't worry about Forsyth's last minute changes, our schedule won't disrupt that. The certificates of occupancy just depend on the NHL awarding a franchise to Atlanta because the county never stipulated when they had to start play, just that they were going to start play.

 

[jkrdevil]

It’s leaking because there is a week to go in the season and they beyond the lame duck status part. They also have to finalize plans for next year. An official in-season announcement was never going to happen.

But it was the obvious solution once it emerged that Atlanta had strong traction as a future expansion franchise to pair with the reborn Coyotes. The league needed a second market to pair with to make the expansion scenario for Muerlo possible.

Atlanta is probably good to go as far as the league is concern. I doubt the league will leave the Atlanta group they have been working with to dry if the AZ stuff falls through further. At that point it is probably go to a different group there or a different city comes in with Atlanta.

 

[GKJ]

Feasible, and they'd have one more summer after that to announce 35/36 (if that is the plan) before the current CBA expires. Tight timelines but certainly doable. That announcement would jive with Forsyth Counties' revisions to the MoU, or at least it wouldn't screw with Krause's plan and the contingencies would then be moot.

Perhaps that was the meeting yesterday, at least with Krause - we've got Arizona settled and yes, we're going to announce Atlanta next summer, so don't worry about Forsyth's last minute changes, our schedule won't disrupt that. The certificates of occupancy just depend on the NHL awarding a franchise to Atlanta, the county never stipulated when they had to start play, just that they were going to start play.

But they don’t build the arena until they’re awarded the team, yes?

 

[sneakytitz]

But they don’t build the arena until they’re awarded the team, yes?

Krause can build the arena whenever he wants. He can't sell/fill a large swath of the residential units until it's halfway built. If the announcement is going to be next summer with the goal of a 2027-28 start date, but he knows it's a done deal, he can start tomorrow and probably will (hyperbole). County revisions would all be moot if Gary told him the 2027-28 start is happening. If that is the case then he'd actually want 50% done sooner than the county.

 

[KevFu]

This is a BOG memo. Where else did it come from?

It's a memo that got leaked. You think they leaked it on purpose? It's called a leak because you wanted it to remain inside, but it didn't.

 

[KevFu]

I don't care about "the leak" in terms of it being a leak or whatever. I'm rejecting the premise that this is somehow adversarial to what the Coyotes are trying to do and not just a cooperative plan that makes sense for everyone.

AM wants a team, in PHX (which he has), in an arena built for hockey, accessible to the majority of the PHX market (that is gonna take time to build).

The NHL wants all their franchises in NHL calibre arenas. Which NBA amenities most certainly are, even if they are missing 4000 seats from a full blown NHL arena.


IF the NHL has decided to green-light Salt Lake as team #33, then "swapping rosters" makes sense: Arizona has a roster and no arena; Salt Lake has an arena and is waiting on an expansion draft. Have Arizona wait on both, and Salt Lake be complete for the next 3-5 years is win-win for everyone.

This would also explain why AM would be willing to sell now, when he's been chasing TWO arena deals now while playing out of a college rink with no intention of selling. Why the about face and willing to sell now? Because he's not "losing" his team, he's just loaning it for 3-5 years until his arena is ready.

The NHL brokering the sale of the Coyotes WITHOUT guarantees to AM on a Coyotes revival (pending arena deal of course) would also be a complete 180 from their 15-year long commitment to Phoenix. They didn't ship the Coyotes elsewhere with a scumbag owner who ruined the franchise.... but now they have an owner willing to pay for the financial losses and build an arena himself (in two different locations now), THAT'S who they'll strip a franchise from?


The timing and the leak sucks. But I'd expect when the NHL actually announcing something the word "hiatus" is used regarding Phoenix. The league isn't hijacking the Coyotes from AM/PHX, they're picking a better temporary arena for one active team in two markets they expect to have franchises in 2029.

And of course, if you wanna space out expansion teams, that means Atlanta's on deck.

 

[dj4aces]

If I'm a Thrashers, Nordiques or Houston hockey fan, I'd be stoked by this news. Because a 33rd team needs a 34th, and 17/17 with 8/9 in each conference isn't lasting very long.

While I'm estatic that the league may finally make a formal expansion announcement soon, I'm also heartbroken for Coyotes fans, especially the wonderful folks populating this site. No one should ever have to endure this, but for all you guys, know that we know exactly how you feel, and I for one stand with you guys.

On us here in Atlanta, the folks scattered on these boards in Houston and the folks in QC? It's gonna be an interesting next little while, no? But I'm not salivating at it quite yet. It's one thing to see Krause, Fertitta, and others in QC meeting with the league. It's another to see a presser with Bettman saying, with certainty, that Atlanta, Houston, and QC are receiving franchises.

 

[sneakytitz]

While I'm estatic that the league may finally make a formal expansion announcement soon, I'm also heartbroken for Coyotes fans, especially the wonderful folks populating this site. No one should ever have to endure this, but for all you guys, know that we know exactly how you feel, and I for one stand with you guys.

On us here in Atlanta, the folks scattered on these boards in Houston and the folks in QC? It's gonna be an interesting next little while, no? But I'm not salivating at it quite yet. It's one thing to see Krause, Fertitta, and others in QC meeting with the league. It's another to see a presser with Bettman saying, with certainty, that Atlanta, Houston, and QC are receiving franchises.

You've long been the voice of reason, and reservedness, for the Atlanta discussions. That said, things are certainly trending towards your metric. Cautious optimism.

 

[KevFu]

While I'm estatic that the league may finally make a formal expansion announcement soon, I'm also heartbroken for Coyotes fans, especially the wonderful folks populating this site. No one should ever have to endure this, but for all you guys, know that we know exactly how you feel, and I for one stand with you guys.

On us here in Atlanta, the folks scattered on these boards in Houston and the folks in QC? It's gonna be an interesting next little while, no? But I'm not salivating at it quite yet. It's one thing to see Krause, Fertitta, and others in QC meeting with the league. It's another to see a presser with Bettman saying, with certainty, that Atlanta, Houston, and QC are receiving franchises.

I definitely appreciate you can be empathetic for another market's fans.

But I also think the NHL can't possibly be dumb enough to be screwing this up, and I feel like there's no chance AM sells the team without a guarantee that the Coyotes are merely "On Hiatus" until his new arena opens. Don't get me wrong, it's not a slam dunk; but I can't see how the NHL would do a 180 on AM and PHX. It feels like they are sold on SLC, ready to give them an expansion team and just saying "let's put the roster with no NHL arena in the market we just added with no roster yet."

 

[GreenHornet]

And it sounds like he's now on the cusp of getting a team.

Not that meeting with the NHL guarantees a team. I'm just saying that the NHL has heard pitches; they've mentioned markets. They seem to have a pretty good handle on HOW to expand now.

If they seem confident in adding SLC within the next 3-5 years, then having them swap franchises with Arizona makes perfect sense.

If they go to 33 teams, stands to reason they add a 34th, 35th and 36th sooner rather than later (Remember that "sooner" is still like eight years from when "Vegas and Seattle looks to be a done deal" and Kraken actually played).

With ATL with two bidding groups, Houston adding ice and the owner saying he's interested, and QC standing ever ready... it all just makes sense.

Solving the PHX problem with a SLC/ARZ swap, and going to 36 with PHX in the Pacific, SLC and HOU in the Central, ATL in the Metro and QC in the Atlantic; which adds 2 major markets and rights the wrong in QC... that all seems orderly, thoughtful and logical.

IF the "swap" that's been rumored happens, I agree pressing the reset button might be the best thing for the long-term future of hockey in the desert. However, it would also certainly suck out loud for the fans in Arizona in the short term. Even if/when they get a replacement team, there is still the stigma about losing a team that will stick with them for long time (believe me, I've been through it twice here in Atlanta). Plus, who knows how long it will take to come to fruition, and there's still no guarantee that Muerelo (or anybody else involved) can pull it off.

That said, IF the SLC/Phoenix swap is the plan, I hope it comes to fruition for the sake of all the Coyotes fans. And IF it does, I have a modest proposal:

1. The Coyotes name, brand, logos, records, etc. should, obviously, stay in Arizona for the new team, IF there is one, and SLC should choose a new name and branding.
2. In return, they should return the pre-1996 history/records of the Jets v1.0 to Winnipeg
3. The Jets, in turn, should return the Thrashers v1.0 history/records to Atlanta IF an expansion franchise is awarded here (my understanding is that the NHL currently owns the Thrashers name, branding, logo, which would be part of the deal IF there is an expansion team and IF the prospective owners choose to revive the name and brand).

 

[hammer42]

The NHL. is not stupid enough to give Atlanta a 3rd chance in 40 years they failed twice that is it .

 

[KevFu]

IF the "swap" that's been rumored happens, I agree pressing the reset button might be the best thing for the long-term future of hockey in the desert. However, it would also certainly suck out loud for the fans in Arizona in the short term. Even if/when they get a replacement team, there is still the stigma about losing a team that will stick with them for long time (believe me, I've been through it twice here in Atlanta). Plus, who knows how long it will take to come to fruition, and there's still no guarantee that Muerelo (or anybody else involved) can pull it off.

That said, IF the SLC/Phoenix swap is the plan, I hope it comes to fruition for the sake of all the Coyotes fans. And IF it does, I have a modest proposal:

1. The Coyotes name, brand, logos, records, etc. should, obviously, stay in Arizona for the new team, IF there is one, and SLC should choose a new name and branding.
2. In return, they should return the pre-1996 history/records of the Jets v1.0 to Winnipeg
3. The Jets, in turn, should return the Thrashers v1.0 history/records to Atlanta IF an expansion franchise is awarded here (my understanding is that the NHL currently owns the Thrashers name, branding, logo, which would be part of the deal IF there is an expansion team and IF the prospective owners choose to revive the name and brand).

What's encouraging to me is that I feel like all of that is a given. That's not some idealistic, wax poetic, wishful thinking message board gibberish...

The Coyotes owned the Jets IP. The NHL owned the Coyotes when the Thrashers moved.
Winnipeg was immediately branded "NHL Winnipeg" on the NHL's websites. There was no "Winnipeg Thrashers" placeholder ever.

It just stands to reason that the NHL said "You can have the Jets IP, but we keep the Thrashers IP."

And if they're doing this Salt Lake takes the Coyotes roster and Coyotes go on hiatus concept, then that could and should be built in for them.

 

[jkrdevil]

The end of the day the league owns all the IP anyways.

 

[sneakytitz]

The NHL. is not stupid enough to give Atlanta a 3rd chance in 40 years they failed twice that is it .

Well technically they aren't giving Atlanta a 3rd chance. They're giving Forsyth County, Georgia a first chance.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

The NHL. is not stupid enough to give Atlanta a 3rd chance in 40 years they failed twice that is it .

 

[dj4aces]

I definitely appreciate you can be empathetic for another market's fans.

But I also think the NHL can't possibly be dumb enough to be screwing this up, and I feel like there's no chance AM sells the team without a guarantee that the Coyotes are merely "On Hiatus" until his new arena opens. Don't get me wrong, it's not a slam dunk; but I can't see how the NHL would do a 180 on AM and PHX. It feels like they are sold on SLC, ready to give them an expansion team and just saying "let's put the roster with no NHL arena in the market we just added with no roster yet."

Honestly? It's not just empathy, it's solidarity. The only difference between Atlanta and Phoenix is there was no guarantee the league would ever return to Atlanta.

I believed the league would, and still believe today, that Atlanta is a foregone conclusion because of the size, growth, money, and diversity in this market. Much of the same exists in Phoenix. I wasn't alone in believing in this market, even if my ten year timeline was a little too much roses and sunshine, but knowing that Carter started getting things in place on his end only eight years removed from the Thrashers, and Krause himself started a few years later, absolutely displays that people believe Atlanta will work if things are done here the right way.

Along similar lines, I fully believe that Phoenix will work too. Like us here in Atlanta, all they need is an owner who gives a shit.

The NHL. is not stupid enough to give Atlanta a 3rd chance in 40 years they failed twice that is it .

On the contrary, the NHL would be stupid to not return to the Atlanta metro area.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

The NHL. is not stupid enough to give Atlanta a 3rd chance in 40 years they failed twice that is it .

The NHL is stupid, but that's independent of anything they do Atlanta-related.

 

[hammer42]

Won't Happen the NHL. will not give Atlanta a 3rd chance they failed twice that is it no more chances . Yes Atlanta & the entire state of Georgia is huge media hub but just not a hockey market same goes for Arizona big media market just not a hockey market . It goes to show you that bigger the market is not always the best market .

 

[VaCaps Fan]

Any market is a hockey market…

 

[tucker3434]

Won't Happen the NHL. will not give Atlanta a 3rd chance they failed twice that is it no more chances . Yes Atlanta & the entire state of Georgia is huge media hub but just not a hockey market same goes for Arizona big media market just not a hockey market . It goes to show you that bigger the market is not always the best market .

Got any new opinions or just the same one over and over?