post-expansion: CANADA vs (rest of) WORLD
- Thread starter amnesiac
- Start date
Trap Jesus
Registered User
- Feb 13, 2012
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It's still clearly Canada. I think to level the playing field to be fair it would be 90s-present. The only World guys that are pre-90s primarily are Kharlamov, Stastny, Fetisov (albeit not in the NHL) and Salming.
M88K
irreverent
- May 24, 2014
- 9,282
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Voted Canada in 5.
Team world is too talented not to win a game or so - but overall team Canada is insane.
Also - Jagr is clearly a name that was forgotten, and should be added. Not sure it makes a difference though
Team world is too talented not to win a game or so - but overall team Canada is insane.
Also - Jagr is clearly a name that was forgotten, and should be added. Not sure it makes a difference though
I forgot Tretiak
yes fixed
one thing I like about team World is they have 2 elite defensive centres in Feds and Datsyuk, Forsberg aint too shabby either.
On D: Chelios, Fetisov, Chara are great physically and defensively.
but as you say, still Canada, but wouldnt be that easy.
Nathaniel Skywalker
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2013
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Bobby Hull needs to be on their to play against his son and Gordie Howe definitely needs to be on their. Your list should have more subs listed. Canada wins in 5.
Luigi Lemieux
Registered User
- Sep 26, 2003
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Gretzky and Lemieux are both outliers that tilt the scale heavily on their own, let alone both together. Would be a more interesting poll with them removed. As is, Canada in 5.
KoozNetsOff 92
Hala Madrid
- Apr 6, 2016
- 8,567
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Not to mention Orr who might be the biggest outlier of all.
You have Gretzky and Lemieux play against Forsberg and Malkin head to head for an 82 game season with those teams - and both Lemieux and Gretzky likely outscore the other two by over 100 points by season's end. Also - both Gretzky and Lemieux are easily the better playoff performers - both for peak, and all-time, vs the other two.
But - that's the thing with such polls. Give it 82 games and it's a landslide. Give it 7 games? Probably enough for the better talent in Can to also shine through, and win easily.
For a single game? Maybe 2? No reason Malkin or Forsberg couldn't dominate way more than Gretzky or Lemieux or both - and have 4-5 points and win the game for their team. Those guys are world class talents, and any of them could truly shine. And I used Malkin/Forsberg since you had them at 2C, but i could have made the same argument using Ovechkin, Hasek or any other number of players too.
So Canada has a big edge in overall talent - and even in ability to pull through in big games (so much clutch in there) - but it doesn't mean the other team wouldn't win a game or two. And maybe - just maybe - they get lucky/play good enough to win series.
removing 99, 66, and 4
Bossy-Crosby-Lafleur
Esposito-Clarke-Messier
Trottier-Yzerman-Sakic
McDavid-Lindros-Dionne
Thornton/Francis
Bourque-Potvin
Coffey-Robinson
Pronger-Park
MacInnis
Roy-Brodeur-Dryden
This is much, much closer. Crazy how much of a differentiator Orr, Gretzky and Lemieux are. I still give the edge to Canada - but I think Team World has a realistic shot here.
I also think you probably should move McDavid up in the lineup, top 2 line. In terms of offensive talent he's at worst second on the team behind Crosby. I suppose Lafleur too is up there for peak
Bob Barker
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- Jun 2, 2008
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Perratrooper
Registered User
yes, and:
Peter Forsberg not Filip
Brett not Jody
Pavel not Valeri
Patrick not Evander
yeah, to me McDavid will/should be on the top line. His speed alone would dominate the series... but this is a fantasy lineup amongst different eras. Cant compare.... I just put the lines together based on "greatness" if you will.
ah, but imagine Lindros centering McDavid on the wing. Beauty.
Did you notice though how Canada lacks "great" wingers post-expansion? all centres except for Lafleur and Bossy! next would be something like Iginla, MSL, Kariya....
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Him and the 5 man unit for Russia in the 80's...they just need to be on the world team.
Esposito 100% and absolutely belongs, and to suggest otherwise is ridiculous. Even if you give 100% credit for his career to Orr exclusively (which would be a horrendous take) - he still belongs, because he's proven how much he can score when he plays with such high end talent.
Toews or Bergeron are great players and i'm sure they could come in and compete well on such a team - but that'd be like saying "take out Crosby from team Canada and put in Danault". I'm sure Danault is a great 2-way guy who would compete and play well - but why in the world lose out on the offensive upside? Also - team Canada already has Clarke to play a shutdown role, having Bergeron or Toews is redundant.
Coffey is also one of the most important players here. His speed could be a huge factor here in such an all-star setting, and something that sets him apart from many others.
I don't mind the idea of putting the KLM line - but I wouldn't remove Hull. He scored 86 goals at his peak. Assuming we are getting players at or near their peak - Hull is also one of the last players you remove from team world imo.
yeah, probably at least Makarov, I guess, but Im not considering chemistry here as the KLM line had. Larionov was a fine player in DET, but he wasnt elite like Sundin or Stastny, so I dont consider him that much. Krutov gave it shot in 89-90 and didnt do much with VAN (I know both were 30 when they started in the NHL).
Makarov I just dont know if he was acutally a greater player than say Sundin or Modano. He was the greatest in Russia int he 80s, but didnt dominate in the NHL nearly as much at age 30. Even if he came in his early 20s I doubt he'd be a top 20 scorer in the NHL. Thats just what I think..... Same could be said for Kharlamov, but we'll just never know.
as for Coffey, again Im not going with chemistry. Just putting in the greatest.... that said, I would have Stevens over Doughty and Keith fairly easily.
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b in vancouver
Registered User
- Jul 28, 2005
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The difference is essentially Forsberg being on The World's 2nd line and Lindros not even making Canada - in your line-ups. Forsberg was great but Lindros's peak was better.
Or how Salming makes the world team but Sittler isn't close.
Then no Bobby Hull or Gordie how whom were still amazing players post expansion. As well as Stan Mikita - whom you could argue either team.
Canada's defence simply tilts the ice way too much also. That's insane. That's the best by a million miles and then the next two by a fair amount in Bourque and Potvin and then the other four are comparable with The World's best. And that's without Stevens and Keith.
Prefer The World's goaltending but only one of them gets to play.
Tough not to see Kent Nilsson, Larionov, Makarov, Kurri, Kovalev, Tim Thomas on The World team. Langway definitely makes The World team. Kent Nilsson's peak was incredibly good and deserves a mention. Take him all day every day over Sundin. Probably over half that forward line-up. Glad you have Peter Statsny in there. He's the other forgotten superstar along with Nilsson.
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nowhereman
Registered User
Imagine stacking a PP of Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid and Orr?
Gotta go Canada on this one, probably in 5.
Gotta go Canada on this one, probably in 5.
