Poll: Player Discussion: Sobotka vs Berglund

[Alklha]

Something else to consider with Sobie.

His style of play when combined with his size indicates that he's going to miss his fair share of games. And when he's hurting he's really useless.


Berglund, love him or hate him, tends to play a lot more games than Sobie which is going to factor into a contract negotiation.

Christ, Steen must be an $8m player then.

The first bolded sentence is not true. The CBA lays out a process for resolving RFA contract disputes, and that process played itself out here. Sobotka's agent stated that he asked for a trade, and even if you don't believe that, Sobotka signed to play in the KHL rather than play under the contract the arbitrator awarded. He has a contract in place with the Blues. If he wanted to be playing here, he would be.

As for the second bolded section, what's your basis for arguing that? Sobotka had his fair chance to argue for what he was worth to the arbitrator, and he couldn't make a case for himself that was more convincing than Armstrong's. He received a fair offer at the end of a fair process. Just because some fans think he's "worth" more doesn't mean that Armstrong lowballed Sobotka and forced his hand. That's not what happened at all.

Was Sobotka represented at the arbitration hearing? I don't believe he was, but I'm not certain.

Assuming he wasn't represented, then the arbitrator can only look at the evidence provided by the Blues. They looked at that evidence and found he was worth $25k more than the Blues offered. Would it have been higher if Sobotka had put forward his case? We don't know, so we can't assume that the arbitrator validated the Blues offer.

purely as a player...SOBOTKA...we disrespected him with our contract offers. he's geting over a million more dollars this year playing in the KHL. He wanted to stay in STL, but army thought he'd rather overpay for berglund, than give sobotka what he wanted whtich was 3mill...yes 700K less than berglund........

He wasn't disrespected. He might not have been happy with the offers, but to say he was disrespected it going way too far.

 

[Meatwagon]

One is here playing for the team, and one chose not to be here.

For me, the discussion pretty much ends there.

Honestly, for me, this is the right answer.

One comes to play everyday, albeit a little inconsistently.

The other left the continent because he wasn't automatically given whatever $ he wanted and a top 6 roll. Sorry Sobi, on a Cup contending team, you should be a 4th line center with 3rd line fill-in duty. Nothing more, but we here in STL love the little scrappy guy.

Sobotka=Bo Hart

 

[EastonBlues22]

Was Sobotka represented at the arbitration hearing? I don't believe he was, but I'm not certain.

Assuming he wasn't represented, then the arbitrator can only look at the evidence provided by the Blues. They looked at that evidence and found he was worth $25k more than the Blues offered. Would it have been higher if Sobotka had put forward his case? We don't know, so we can't assume that the arbitrator validated the Blues offer.

Sobotka was represented. HERE is a great breakdown of the entire process, including what types of evidence may and may not be submitted.

Here are two excerpts:

At the hearing, each side has 90 minutes to present their case, and must allocate those 90 minutes between their direct case and rebuttal case in any manner they choose. If the party that presents their direct case second introduces a "substantive issue" or a new comparable player, then the second side can request an additional 10 minutes for rebuttal.

Permissible evidence includes:

The number of games played and a player's injury history
"Overall performance" (including NHL "official statistics")
Length of service of the player to the club or in the NHL
"The overall contribution of the Player to the competitive success or failure of his club in the preceding season"
"Any special qualities of leadership or public appeal"
The overall performance of alleged comparable players
The compensation of any comparable players that have been formally introduced as a comparable

 

[Alklha]

Sobotka was represented. HERE is a great breakdown of the entire process, including what types of evidence may and may not be submitted.

Here are two excerpts:

I do know how the arbitration process works, but Sobotka and his agent were not in the country for the hearing. Armstrong said in the days leading up to the hearing that he did not know if Sobotka was going to be represented, but that a decision would still be made if he wasn't.

 

[EastonBlues22]

I do know how the arbitration process works, but Sobotka and his agent were not in the country for the hearing. Armstrong said in the days leading up to the hearing that he did not know if Sobotka was going to be represented, but that a decision would still be made if he wasn't.

Ah. I completely missed that bit of news.

Truthfully, I have no idea then. It would seem pretty foolish for Sobotka to not have any representation considering that he knew he would have to play under the contract if he ever wanted to return to the NHL.

The only reason I can think of why he wouldn't care if he was represented is if the difference in money really didn't matter to him.

 

[Alklha]

Ah. I completely missed that bit of news.

Truthfully, I have no idea then. It would seem pretty foolish for Sobotka to not have any representation considering that he knew he would have to play under the contract if he ever wanted to return to the NHL.

The only reason I can think of why he wouldn't care if he was represented is if the difference in money really didn't matter to him.

I remember that Bill Daly confirmed that Sobotka didn't need a representative for a decision to be reached, but I don't think it was ever confirmed whether or not Sobotka submitted evidence.

Who knows what Sobotka was thinking. I understand him being annoyed and I understand him signing in the KHL. But, if he believes that his future lies in the NHL, then I hope he looks back and realises that he behaved like an idiot this summer.

What's funny is that if he had signed the 1 year deal, or waited for the arbitration process, then he probably would have got $4m in UFA next summer. There aren't many decent players available and there is always an abundance of desperate GM's.

 

[GoldenSeal]

Sobotka. All day, every day, including Sundays.

Yeah, he left due to money, but they paid that money to Ott and Bergy. Is there anyone on this board who wouldn't have casted aside Ott and Bergy, paid Sobotka and kept the change? I would have, in a heartbeat. Boat steps on the ice and plays every bit of himself, every shift. Made of heart. The other two, are made of lead...weights. Difference is so light years apart it's not even funny. But yall would choose Bergy because he stayed? Really? Anyone here expected Bergy to walk when his no-timing, low-performing butt gets paid (Sorry, 'rewarded') a 3+ m multi-year contract? Come on, now.

 

[EastonBlues22]

Lets clarify something here. The plan was for Berglund AND Sobotka, not Berglund OR Sobotka.

We'd have them both here, right now, playing for the Blues if it wasn't for one thing: Sobotka choosing not to be here.

It's Armstrong's job to build the best team possible. He doesn't "owe" Sobotka anything...financially, or in terms of role. Armstrong brought in multiple better players that pushed Sobotka down the depth chart, and offered Sobotka multiple contract options. Sobotka chose to ask for a trade, and then ultimately walk, rather than play for the arbitrator's award and/or compete with Berglund and company for top 9 minutes.

I love Sobotka's game, and I wish he hadn't left...but he did, and I don't see any compelling arguments for laying his departure at the feet of Armstrong or Berglund. This one's squarely on Sobotka.

 

[Alklha]

I'll go a step further, I think that if Armstrong had got what he wanted in the summer then we would have traded Berglund and Sobotka would be here.

There is no doubt we were dangling Berglund in talks in the last 2 weeks of June, the rumours were too frequent. Those rumours largely disappeared at the start of July, exactly when Sobotka's agent says he requested a trade.

JR said all through June that we wanted to bring Ott back, and none of us really believed him at the time. I think the extension with him was basically agreed and we were waiting until the Berglund/Sobotka situation resolved so we didn't have to trade Berglund from a position of weakness. That also explains why we still paid top dollar for Ott 10 days into free agency.

Armstrong refused Sobotka's trade request and was willing to give him a 1 year deal taking him to UFA. That is pretty clear that he would have been willing to give Sobotka a lot closer to what he was looking for if he proved it this season.

I'm probably the biggest critic of Armstrong on here, but he done nothing wrong with Sobotka in late June/early July. Sobotka should have been signed earlier, but we don't know how receptive Sobotka would have been to that so can't be too critical.

Let's all hope that we can now take advantage of a desperate Edmonton team, and get a great return on a Berglund based package. That could turn Sobotka leaving for the KHL into a blessing

 

[Ranksu]

17-17. How people can see Berglund better player?

 

[EastonBlues22]

I'm closing this up, as the voting has stagnated and most of the player related conversation is mirroring what's being said elsewhere.

If you want to talk about Berglund some more, there's a bunch of other threads available for doing so (including a dedicated player discussion thread).