Poll: Player Discussion: Sobotka vs Berglund

[RR10*]

What do you prefer:

Lehtera & Sobotka or Lehtera & Berglund?

Discuss.

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[KirkOut]

I think in order of handsomeness, it goes Berglund>Sobotka>Lehtera, although Lehtera is no slouch. So I picked Berglund+Lehtera

 

[EastonBlues22]

One is here playing for the team, and one chose not to be here.

For me, the discussion pretty much ends there.

 

[Ranksu]

Easiest pick Sobotka. I didn't find on 'hockeystatistic' any spot where Bergy could got better statistic. Sobotka is more versatility and grittier and far better on z-done and how i remember his ability on corners win 1on1 situation.

I don't want to comment anything about this who left,who stayed and who did give hard ball. That is different story.

 

[LGB51]

The one who is still here, can't get behind a guy who takes his ball and goes home.

 

[WalterSobchak]

"Judge not, lest thee be judged thyself"

It's easy to rag on Sobotka for feeling under appreciated and not staying in St. Louis. Which of these two players is better in a vacuum, it's Sobotka and not even close. Berglund has much more potential but it seems more often than not, that is all we are going to get from Bergie -- is the potential of a big body C, who plays like he's the 3rd Sedin sister.

Sobotka's game is consistent; to the point that there are valid concerns his playing style could shorten his career and that is why he wants and arguably deserves the proper payday before he laces up in the NHL again.

The KHL is a much softer league, easier on his body wear-and-tear wise. Hockey is a business, it's a mistake to be butt hurt over it.

 

[Ranksu]

Would you guys give Sobotka 3.7mill. x 3 years rather Bergy 3.7mill. x 3years?

 

[Renard]

Would you guys give Sobotka 3.7mill. x 3 years rather Bergy 3.7mill. x 3years?

I thought Sobotka was a much better player than Berglund last year. Vladi's compete level was much higher.

But arbitrators seem to compensate forwards for goal scoring. The market for players salaries seem to reflect what an arbitrator will give a guy. So, Berglund probably got about what the going rate is for a 15-20 goal a year guy.

 

[LGB51]

"Judge not, lest thee be judged thyself"

It's easy to rag on Sobotka for feeling under appreciated and not staying in St. Louis. Which of these two players is better in a vacuum, it's Sobotka and not even close. Berglund has much more potential but it seems more often than not, that is all we are going to get from Bergie -- is the potential of a big body C, who plays like he's the 3rd Sedin sister.

Sobotka's game is consistent; to the point that there are valid concerns his playing style could shorten his career and that is why he wants and arguably deserves the proper payday before he laces up in the NHL again.

The KHL is a much softer league, easier on his body wear-and-tear wise. Hockey is a business, it's a mistake to be butt hurt over it.

Not for me it isn't.

 

[jura]

#Pyramid #Trap #Veterans #Sobotka #Victory

 

[Blues88]

One is here playing for the team, and one chose not to be here.

For me, the discussion pretty much ends there.

We know that Armstrong offered "several deals ranging from 1-5 years" and "north of 3 milliion". The last one was 2 years/3m per. Ok. If you're qualifying Berglund at 3.25 and then handing him 3 years at 3.7aav, why not offer the same deal to Sobotka? Did they? Did Sobotka really want 4 million per?

I really feel like Sobotka with Berglund's contract provides more value than Berglund. Berglund is likely worth more with that contract in a trade, but Sobotka has been the better player. Should he not be compensated as such?

 

[BlueDream]

Berglund's offensive game these days is so disappointing. Neither him nor Sobotka can really score goals but Sobotka at least has vision and is a better playmaker.

I'd take Sobotka now to be honest. He's the better player. Just as good defensively, better on faceoffs, more physical. And if he had Berglund's size it wouldn't even be a debate for me... Not that it matters that much since he plays bigger anyways.

Berglund has more offensive "potential" but he's not going to reach it. The only advantage he really has is he actually wants to be here and didn't act like a baby.

 

[542365]

"What do I prefer"? I prefer the guy that sports the Blue Note on his chest each night. Who is the better player? Soby. He just is. Not by as much as some people will make it seem, but he is better.

 

[Alklha]

Sobotka is easily the better player.

We know that Armstrong offered "several deals ranging from 1-5 years" and "north of 3 milliion". The last one was 2 years/3m per. Ok. If you're qualifying Berglund at 3.25 and then handing him 3 years at 3.7aav, why not offer the same deal to Sobotka? Did they? Did Sobotka really want 4 million per?

I really feel like Sobotka with Berglund's contract provides more value than Berglund. Berglund is likely worth more with that contract in a trade, but Sobotka has been the better player. Should he not be compensated as such?

I couldn't disagree more with how Armstrong handled Berglund in 2013 or this past summer, but there can't really be direct comparisons drawn between Berglund's contract and what Berglund got.

I think it is safe to say that the absolute maximum that we offered Sobotka on a 3 year deal was $3.25m ($2.75m, $3.25m, $3.75m). That's quite a big difference compared to Berglund.

More generally, I understand Sobotka's point of view. He waited his chance to prove himself, and he took that chance when he got it. We then turn around and offer him significantly less than a player he outperformed. We low-ball him because he doesn't have the body of work, because he was on utility duty for most of him time here. We then sign a couple of centres and tell him he'll be back on utility duty, so will again have his chance to earn his contract hampered That's not to say you don't look to improve, that's to say get Sobotka signed earlier.

If Sobotka would have taken 4 years at $3.5m, we should have given it to him. It's a fair price for a good, versatile #3C. If he was looking for more, we should have traded him when he asked for the trade. The situation we are in now is just strange.

 

[EastonBlues22]

We know that Armstrong offered "several deals ranging from 1-5 years" and "north of 3 milliion". The last one was 2 years/3m per. Ok. If you're qualifying Berglund at 3.25 and then handing him 3 years at 3.7aav, why not offer the same deal to Sobotka? Did they? Did Sobotka really want 4 million per?

I really feel like Sobotka with Berglund's contract provides more value than Berglund. Berglund is likely worth more with that contract in a trade, but Sobotka has been the better player. Should he not be compensated as such?

Fair or not, NHL contracts (especially for forwards) reward goal/point production more than anything else.

As much as I like Sobotka's overall game, he has never scored 10 goals or 35 points. He's averaged 7 goals and 26 points per 82 games for his career. Berglund's highs/career averages are 22 goals/52 points and 20 goals/40 points per 82 games played.

Regardless of how fans might feel about them as players, Sobotka was never going to be paid more than Berglund. Not by the Blues, and likely not by any other team either (if they speculatively could have negotiated with and signed either player). What's more, paying Sobotka more than he's "worth" just because you value things not normally valued in NHL contracts is a great way to ruin a team's salary structure, and to inflate contracts given out in future negotiations.

Berglund's contract bought out 2 UFA years, and was fair value based on his historical production. The contract Sobotka walked away from was determined to be fair by an independent arbitrator. That's just the way it is. Berglund not living up to his contract so far doesn't make Sobotka worth more as a player.

Armstrong wanted both here. Regardless of what happened with Berglund, Sobotka was offered a fair NHL contract. Sobotka walked away.

 

[Jori cant shoot]

One is here playing for the team, and one chose not to be here.

For me, the discussion pretty much ends there.

This is also why I went with berglund.

 

[RR10*]

This is also why I went with berglund.

The question is who of them makes the Blues better. Forget about everything else. Can't believe 13 people voted for Berglund. I guess most are pissed about Sobotka leaving. I totally understand him though, why would he get less paid than a guy he clearly outperformed last year. Sobotka is the better player right now and would make the Blues faster and tougher.

 

[BlueDream]

If Berglund left and Sobotka stayed I'm pretty sure hardly anyone would be voting for Berglund. It's just a bit of denial. You can't make much of a case that Berglund is the better player these days.

 

[Celtic Note]

The question is who of them makes the Blues better. Forget about everything else. Can't believe 13 people voted for Berglund. I guess most are pissed about Sobotka leaving. I totally understand him though, why would he get less paid than a guy he clearly outperformed last year. Sobotka is the better player right now and would make the Blues faster and tougher.

That's not the question you asked.

What do you prefer:

Lehtera & Sobotka or Lehtera & Berglund?

Discuss.

I prefer the guy who wanted to be on our team.

 

[Robb_K]

I don't think there's a lot of difference in the values of Berglund and Sobotka to The Blues at the present time. I don't think we can assume that Berglund will continue to score 1 goal and 2 points every 10 games. He's been a much better goal scorer and a slightly better point scorer than Sobotka over their careers, and (due to his size and style of play) has been more durable. He's an adequate faceoff man. Sobotka is a lot better on faceoffs, and plays a more physical game. Berglund is slightly better on defence, and they are about equal in board puck battles. Sobotka is a better passer and stickhandler. Berglund can stand in front of the net, screen for the shooter and score on deflections.

The main difference is that Sobotka is more consistent. Both are versatile, and can play in several situations. I wanted them both.

I want Berglund to continue improving at LW, and start scoring again, and start playing a much more physical game as he's shown at times. I also want Sobotka to agree to play for The Blues next season, after Berglund is traded.

 

[bleedblue1223]

This quicker version of Berglund makes things more interesting and it's important to not that Sobotka only really put up points when he was with Schwartz and Tarasenko, and before that when he was forced on that top line because of injuries. Sobotka is just extremely consistent.

 

[rumrokh]

I don't think there's a lot of difference in the values of Berglund and Sobotka to The Blues at the present time. I don't think we can assume that Berglund will continue to score 1 goal and 2 points every 10 games. He's been a much better goal scorer and a slightly better point scorer than Sobotka over their careers, and (due to his size and style of play) has been more durable. He's an adequate faceoff man. Sobotka is a lot better on faceoffs, and plays a more physical game. Berglund is slightly better on defence, and they are about equal in board puck battles. Sobotka is a better passer and stickhandler. Berglund can stand in front of the net, screen for the shooter and score on deflections.

The main difference is that Sobotka is more consistent. Both are versatile, and can play in several situations. I wanted them both.

I want Berglund to continue improving at LW, and start scoring again, and start playing a much more physical game as he's shown at times. I also want Sobotka to agree to play for The Blues next season, after Berglund is traded.

I basically agree with this except I rate Berglund even a little higher. He's not just slightly better on defense, he's noticeably better. And Berglund is lightyears more effective on the powerplay. Sobotka on the powerplay is a nightmare, Berglund never looks out of place.

Loved Sobotka, but for every person who is angry about Sobotka's departure, there are two who are disgruntled about Berglund because of ill-formed expectations. It goes both ways.

 

[RR10*]

That's not the question you asked.



I prefer the guy who wanted to be on our team.

I prefer the one who is better: Sobotka.

 

[RR10*]

This quicker version of Berglund makes things more interesting and it's important to not that Sobotka only really put up points when he was with Schwartz and Tarasenko, and before that when he was forced on that top line because of injuries. Sobotka is just extremely consistent.

Sobotka offers much more than just scoring. He play such a well allround game that his 40 points can be translated to 55. He's faster, tougher, more physical, better defenseman, better at possesion, better at FO and PK, more versatile, hell he is even outproducing Berglund lately.

Blues have looked slower than I expected so just switching Sobotka with Berglund would be huge.

 

[BlueDream]

That's not the question you asked.



I prefer the guy who wanted to be on our team.

That's really just a cop out. You know what the question meant.