Poll: Eric Staal vs. Ron Francis

[Finlandia WOAT]

I was bored, so I decided to look up Eric Staal and Ron Francis' adjusted stats.
First 10 years
Francis: 49, 73, 66, 64, 61, 79, 63, 64, 85, 78

E Staal: 36, 98, 71, 89, 78, 75, 82, 77

Under adjusted points, it would seem Staal is a 75+ players while Francis is a 70+. Eric is MUCH more goal oriented, and Francis gets the edge in assists (all adjusted, of course).

On thing that struck me though, is that neither are really known for their dominating seasons: they are known for their consistency (at least from season to season, game to game, let's not talk about that).

Who would you rather have? Eric Staal or Ronnie Franchise?

Click to read more...

 

[tomdundo]

I was bored, so I decided to look up Eric Staal and Ron Francis' adjusted stats.
First 10 years
Francis: 49, 73, 66, 64, 61, 79, 63, 64, 85, 78

E Staal: 36, 98, 71, 89, 78, 75, 82, 77

Under adjusted points, it would seem Staal is a 75+ players while Francis is a 70+. Eric is MUCH more goal oriented, and Francis gets the edge in assists (all adjusted, of course).

On thing that struck me though, is that neither are really known for their dominating seasons: they are known for their consistency (at least from season to season, game to game, let's not talk about that).

Who would you rather have? Eric Staal or Ronnie Franchise?

The real question is: What are the Claude Giroux-adjusted stats?

 

[Moosetache]

This is not a discussion......

What is a discussion, is what are adjusted stats?

 

[the halleJOKEL]

Ground floor.

 

[nobuddy]

Francis in the regular season, Staal in the playoffs. Francis is closer to beating out Staal in the playoffs than Staal is to beating out Francis in the regular season for me. So Francis.

 

[DaveG]

This is not a discussion......

What is a discussion, is what are adjusted stats?

Essentially adjusted stats take a players production in a given season and calculate what their production would be in a more normal NHL season from a scoring standpoint. There's flaws to it due to changes in coaching styles over the years, but it's a very reliable indicator of where a player stands in relation to their peers.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

I hate this term, but in this case, it applies:

Francis, and it's not even close.

 

[bleedgreen]

Brass bonanza forevah and evah.

 

[Roboturner913]

Francis. Better defensively, better at faceoffs, better passer, better leader of men, just a better overall player. Only thing Staal really has on him is goal-scoring ability.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

The Franchise.

Staal's nice, but we'll let him captain us to at least the playoffs before this even starts to think about maybe becoming a discussion.

 

[Ole Gil]

On a team with a lot of good players, I'd want Francis. On a team with just a few good players, I'd take Staal.

I never thought of Francis as a put the team on his back kind of guy, as much as a make everyone better type of player. Staal on the other hand has a beast mode, which you have to have when you're going to be playing with Tlusty's and Larose's for a lot of your career.

 

[Lazyking]

On a team with a lot of good players, I'd want Francis. On a team with just a few good players, I'd take Staal.

I never thought of Francis as a put the team on his back kind of guy, as much as a make everyone better type of player. Staal on the other hand has a beast mode, which you have to have when you're going to be playing with Tlusty's and Larose's for a lot of your career.

This.

 

[La Huracanista]

I'd actually say Francis's numbers benefit from the length of his career. But he brought a Selke caliber defensive game to the ice as well (not that Staal's a slouch but he's no Selke candidate).

Staal's number 12 will be in our rafters some day, but until then this is a pretty easy choice. Francis.

 

[Roboturner913]

I never thought of Francis as a put the team on his back kind of guy, as much as a make everyone better type of player.

As much as I agree with this statement (and I do) I think that is what makes Francis the better guy to have around. Francis may not ever be able to hold the puck in the offensive zone for 10 minutes with three guys draped all over him, but he inspired the other guys to the point where they would make sure he was never in that situation to begin with.

We're not in the locker room, so we don't know the extent or nature of EStaal's leadership. He may not be lacking much in that department, but he ain't no Ron Francis or Rod Brind'Amour. Some of that just naturally has to come with age and experience though.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

I was bored, so I decided to look up Eric Staal and Ron Francis' adjusted stats.
First 10 years
Francis: 49, 73, 66, 64, 61, 79, 63, 64, 85, 78

E Staal: 36, 98, 71, 89, 78, 75, 82, 77

Claude Giroux adjusted? It doesn't matter otherwise.

 

[tomdundo]

Claude Giroux adjusted? It doesn't matter otherwise.

See post 2 of this thread. HF meme already covered.

 

[Joe McGrath]

Francis. It really shouldn't have to be debated, unless you don't count face-offs, defensive ability, or leadership skills for a center and a captain as important.

 

[Beardy*]

I was bored, so I decided to look up Eric Staal and Ron Francis' adjusted stats.
First 10 years
Francis: 49, 73, 66, 64, 61, 79, 63, 64, 85, 78

E Staal: 36, 98, 71, 89, 78, 75, 82, 77

Under adjusted points, it would seem Staal is a 75+ players while Francis is a 70+. Eric is MUCH more goal oriented, and Francis gets the edge in assists (all adjusted, of course).

On thing that struck me though, is that neither are really known for their dominating seasons: they are known for their consistency (at least from season to season, game to game, let's not talk about that).

Who would you rather have? Eric Staal or Ronnie Franchise?

Honestly, at this point in their careers, Jordan Staal reminds me more of Francis than Eric does. He's more defensively responsible, he tries to set up his linemates for great scoring chances, he's pretty good in the faceoff circle, and he's going to load up on the assists far more than he will the goals.

Eric is just a beast in his own regard. Not overly sure there is anyone else you can really compare him to right now. He's been carrying teams on his back for years while having little talent on his line. Assuming we re-sign Semin, I have a feeling we'll have a much different opinion of him, in a good way, about 5 years from now.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Honestly, at this point in their careers, Jordan Staal reminds me more of Francis than Eric does. He's more defensively responsible

Agree that he's more defensively responsible.

he tries to set up his linemates for great scoring chances

I don't necessarily agree with that. He creates space using his size and strength and helps control the puck down low and this obviously benefits a skilled player like Skinner, but he's not much of a playmaker setting guys up (like Francis was). In fact, if you look at their careers, Jordan's assist / point ratio is 53% and Eric's is 56%. The two of them go about it different ways, but Jordan has not traditionally been a guy setting guys up.

he's pretty good in the faceoff circle

Last season: Jordan's FO%: 51%, Eric's FO%: 52.5%.
This season: Jordan's FO%: 48%, Eric's FO%: 51.5%

Eric has been better the last two years.

and he's going to load up on the assists far more than he will the goals.

Maybe he'll become that way in Carolina, but as I showed above, that hasn't been the case to this point in Jordan's career.

Anyhow, in terms of this poll, it's pretty easily Francis for me.

 

[ChuckW]

Someone post their real stats, not their "adjusted" stats.

 

[poobags]

Someone post their real stats, not their "adjusted" stats.

If we post the real stats it's not even close to compare them offensively as the 90s had a completely different level of offense.

 

[Lazyking]

Someone post their real stats, not their "adjusted" stats.

Staal Pts: 31, 100, 70, 82, 75, 70, 76, 70

Francis Pts: 68, 90, 83, 81, 77, 93, 75, 77, 101, 87, 54, 100, 93, 59, 119, 90, 87, 52, 73, 65, 77, 57, 40

I really think adjusted stats is the way to go given the era's inflation.

 

[WhiteTrashAmerican]

Gave Staal a pity vote. If Staal had a Semin-quality winger for the past few years this would be closer....But Francis' defensive skills pretty much win this for him(Selke caliber). I think Staal is a better overall offensive player though.

 

[Novacane]

Admittedly I barely remember Francis playing for Carolina, so I will not vote. I can't make a fair assessment of his abilities. But I will add something to think about (or not ). Did Francis develop his Selke caliber defense/faceoff ability/leadership when his offense started dropping off? In other words, are we comparing the stats of the two players in the same age of their career, but also crediting Francis with extra "stuff" even though he may have developed those later in his career. Perhaps we are knocking Eric a little too much for things that Francis didn't develop at this point either. But as I said, I have no clue, just adding conversation.

 

[geehaad]

If Staal had a Semin-quality winger for the past few years this would be closer....But Francis' defensive skills pretty much win this for him(Selke caliber). I think Staal is a better overall offensive player though.

Jeff O'Neill-quality, perhaps?