Points vs ppg vs points per 60 mins toi

[Aimerd]

Which do you value the most as the best measure of a player offensive prowess and why?

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[GreeningOil]

If points/60 showed the best players, wouldn’t they play them more and then they would become the next Leon Draisaitl?

PPG tells you exactly how many points on average they will score in a given game.

no measure is going to tell you all there is though.

 

[Aimerd]

If points/60 showed the best players, wouldn’t they play them more and then they would become the next Leon Draisaitl?

PPG tells you exactly how many points on average they will score in a given game.

no measure is going to tell you all there is though.

Not when there is no reason to, aka having a big lead alot more often than say the oilers when they are constantly chasing say a 1 goal deficity and have them out there for 2 minitues with a timeout with the goalie pulled

 

[Perennial]

I like the idea of a PP/60, however, even that requires a caveat...

Player A and Player B could have identical PP/60, however, Player A might be getting 5 minutes of power play time per game without having to kill penalties, whereas Player B is playing shorthanded for 5 minutes per game without any power play time

 

[Aimerd]

I like the idea of a PP/60, however, even that requires a caveat...

Player A and Player B could have identical PP/60, however, Player A might be getting 5 minutes of power play time per game without having to kill penalties, whereas Player B is playing shorthanded for 5 minutes per game without any power play time

well there is points per toi 5vs5 and points per toi on the PP. If player A leads in both then?

 

[GreeningOil]

Not when there is no reason to, aka having a big lead alot more often than say the oilers when they are constantly chasing say a 1 goal deficity and have them out there for 2 minitues with a timeout with the goalie pulled

Partially true. An ENG matters. How many games have been lost when a team is scored on. McDavid might have 8-10 eng in his career. He’s not so good without the goalie in

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

Points

You don’t provide value from the press box or the bench. The only thing that really matters is points

 

[Aimerd]

Points

You don’t provide value from the press box or the bench. The only thing that really matters is points

total value provided != a measure of a player's offensive prowess. Read the question

 

[Zamknij kurwa ryj]

Points and/or PPG.

P/60, like most /60 stats are useless without context and typically used, on these boards, to prop up inferior players under the willfully ignorant guise of this stat scaling linearly.

And no, Kucherov is not as good as Connor McDavid, OP.

 

[Stive Morgan]

Depends on the context, like obviously I wouldn't try to say some random 3rd liner is better than a 1st liner because he has a higher P/60 mins

PPG is usually good enough for me.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Which one makes my favorite player look the best at that given moment? That seems to be the option that some folks take on here.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

Points 100% they're tangible and real. PPG and p/60 stats give an idea of what a player could produce in a different scenario or over a larger set of games, but thats all they are- point projections. Real actual point production will always reign supreme to pace because its a hard fact.

31 out of 31 GMs would say points here and the fact that over 75% did not choose points says a lot about how much the opinions on hfboards are worth

 

[ricky0034]

points>ppg>p/60

p/60 is dumb and usually just leads to people heavily overrating guys that do well playing on 3rd lines against weak competition

 

[jetsforever]

Probably points but PPG works for arguments if the games played is at least 50-60

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

If points/60 showed the best players, wouldn’t they play them more and then they would become the next Leon Draisaitl?

PPG tells you exactly how many points on average they will score in a given game.

no measure is going to tell you all there is though.

Your last sentence is the relevant one.

PPG doesn't tell you anything about WILL but about DID, exactly the same as P60. The big mistake many posters make is assuming linearity.

It's like the struggle many have with advanced stats.

None of the stats are bad, it's how people interpret them that's the issue.

Some folks use stats the same way a drunkard uses a light pole, for support rather than illumination.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

points>ppg>p/60

p/60 is dumb and usually just leads to people heavily overrating guys that do well playing on 3rd lines against weak competition

It only does that if the interpreter isn't bright. The stats are fine. It's a pesky little thing called "context" that many can't wrap their heads around.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

Points 100% they're tangible and real. PPG and p/60 stats give an idea of what a player could produce in a different scenario or over a larger set of games, but thats all they are- point projections. Real actual point production will always reign supreme to pace because its a hard fact.

31 out of 31 GMs would say points here and the fact that over 75% did not choose points says a lot about how much the opinions on hfboards are worth

They aren't projections. They are exactly what happened, just like points.

 

[Holymakinaw]

I picked PPG because you have to pick SOMETHING in this poll. But why even ask the question? They're ALL equally as important. We keep trying to dissect things down to "this > that" with zero context and it's just silly. It doesn't work that way. "Goals > points"......"5V5 > PP"........."Shot attempts > blocked shots". LOL. They're all small parts of a bigger thing.

Points matter. So does points per game. And so does points per 60 minutes, if you don't try to skew the stat to suit your argument.

Enjoy the games. Just watch the hockey.

 

[BlueBaron]

There is no "this poll is flawed" option so didn't vote.

Problem is the stats have different value depending on the point in a players career. The per 60 stats need large samples to have meaning but after awhile it gets difficult to ignore Matthews goal scoring pace or McDavid's point production. If my per 60 goals drop when I'm 33 it means something different than when I'm 25.

This poll question is awful and almost meaningless as it currently stands.

 

[JoVel]

I value context.

 

[Mickey Marner]

If I were to pick one for a cursory glance of a time period I would use pts/gp.

 

[Spirit of 67]

Points.

Because I'm in my 50's.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Earlier in the year, I looked at which stats best predict a forward's salary. This was based on the 2019 off-season, and I looked at 134 players (64 RFA's and 90 UFA's). I looked at more than 80 statistics to see what predicted salary. The findings:

• The single best predictor of a forward's salary is points
• Goals and assists were both good predictors, but not as strong as total points
• Even strength points and powerplay points were also good predictors, but also not as strong as total points
• Points per game was a decent predictor, but weaker than total points (similarly, goals per game and assists per game were less predictive than total goals or totals assists)
• Per-60 production had limited predictive value. I looked at this nine different ways (goals only, assists only, and totals points - at ES only, PP only, and in total). None of those nine combinations had very good predictive power.

This doesn't mean that you shouldn't value points per game or points per 60 minutes. Maybe we have a "Moneyball" situation, where teams aren't paying players properly. But if the question is what do GM's actually value when paying players - there's no question that point production is the single most valuable metric. Combine that with age and you can get a very accurate model that predicts salary.

 

[Bomber0104]

All three have as much meaning as you allow them to when you apply the necessary context to it.

Overall points win the actual games at the end of the day, but you'd also be wise to find out how efficient your players are at scoring those points.

 

[Miro4Norris]

Points

You don’t provide value from the press box or the bench. The only thing that really matters is points

Ok so.. Teravainen just came back to The lineup last night after being out since first games of The season. He has 9 points this season.
You would rather to have Jordan Martinook, 13 points in 43 games in lineup when playoffs start instead of Teuvo?