Points Streaks

[Big Phil]

The thing is though....Gretzky wasn't even the fastest, most skilled or talented when he was getting 200+ points a season either.

It was Gretzky's creativity, craftiness, intelligence and hockey sense that made him the best ever and I'm sorry but Sid is not even close in to him in these area's.

I'll add one thing here. Certainly Sid is faster and stronger. But is he more talented? Why isn't creativity and hockey sense a talent? Or anticipation? Yes these are God-given gifts too but you have to work on them. A story I once heard was Gretzky watching a game on TV and he'd have a piece of paper and a marker. He'd watch the screen and trace where the puck was on the ice. After a while he'd look at his paper and be able to see what areas the puck was situated in the most. That's smart. And in my opinion being that smart is a talent as well.

Sundin is sure one underrated guy in this section, it's not his fault that he was traded to TO and never had a great supporting cast.

Sundin was the better player (of him and Sakic) and 2 years younger when he got traded to Toronto and the rest became history.

One guy is associated with being a winner while Sundin isn't.

Hmmmm, I've said it before I will support Sundin's induction for the HHOF. I won't pretend he was only an inferior player to Sakic because of his "situation".

Sakic was in charge of his own destiny. Colorado does not win the Cup in 1996 or 2001 without him. He had probably the best Conn Smythe performance of anyone over the last 15 years (Malkin in 2009 is close). He won the Hart Trophy. He was a 1st team all-star three times, two of those times going directly against very good years Sundin had.

At the time of the trade the two of them had played 4 seasons together. Sundin outpointed Sakic in one of them........barely. In 1994 at the time of the trade Sundin had an 85 point season while Sakic had 92. Let's not forget either, the Maple Leafs were a very good team from 1998-'04. Yes he didn't get a great winger until an older Mogilny arrived but no one would have stopped the press had the Leafs won a Cup in those years. Sundin was often criticized for not elevating his game come playoff time. It was a knock that Leaf fans held against him. The "We'll never win a Cup with him as captain" idea was prevelant. The sad thing is we long for those days now but there was never any time when Sundin was a Leaf that anyone would have given up Sakic straight up for him. As a Leaf fan, I knew who the better player was and we didn't have him. The Leafs had good depth, goaltending and two very good defensemen (McCabe and Kaberle) in those years. Yet we didn't win the Cup despite outpointing Colorado different times in that span.

Sakic > Sundin

 

[Rhiessan71]

I'll add one thing here. Certainly Sid is faster and stronger. But is he more talented? Why isn't creativity and hockey sense a talent? Or anticipation? Yes these are God-given gifts too but you have to work on them. A story I once heard was Gretzky watching a game on TV and he'd have a piece of paper and a marker. He'd watch the screen and trace where the puck was on the ice. After a while he'd look at his paper and be able to see what areas the puck was situated in the most. That's smart. And in my opinion being that smart is a talent as well.

I would prefer to keep them separate.

For example, you take a guy like Kovalev, there haven't been too many players in the history of the game that can compete with the package he had in his prime.
I mean the guy was fast, big and strong as an ox, stickhandle in a phone booth at ridiculous speeds, wicked wrist shot but he had no creativity, not to mention a little light in the heart department.
Al Iafrate was another one, all the tools but no clue how to use them.

Gretzky's biggest asset was his mind not his body.

 

[Fredrik_71]

The Leafs had good depth, goaltending and two very good defensemen (McCabe and Kaberle) in those years. Yet we didn't win the Cup despite outpointing Colorado different times in that span.
Sakic > Sundin

Im also a leafs fan. The Sundin era never had a team good enough to win the cup. Maybe if we had a Carolina season we could have had a chance. But being a realist getting the team to playoffs was good enough for me.

And to be fair, I did root for Colorado when the Leafs had been eliminated. Loved their 2-line combo with Forsberg/Sakic. A treat to watch.

/Cheers

 

[Big Phil]

Im also a leafs fan. The Sundin era never had a team good enough to win the cup. Maybe if we had a Carolina season we could have had a chance. But being a realist getting the team to playoffs was good enough for me.

And to be fair, I did root for Colorado when the Leafs had been eliminated. Loved their 2-line combo with Forsberg/Sakic. A treat to watch.

/Cheers

You truly believe that? I think the Leafs could have won the Cup from 1998-'04 and the hockey world wouldn't have been shocked. These were their best years IMO:

1998-'99: Forwards: Sundin, Thomas, Perreault, Berezin
Defense: Berard, Kaberle, Cote, Yushkevich, Jason Smith
Goalie: Joseph

2001-'02: Forwards: Sundin, Mogilny, Tucker, Renberg, Reichel, Roberts, Corson, Hoglund
Defense: McCabe, Kaberle, Yushkevich
Goal: Joseph

2003-'04: Forwards: Sundin, Nieuwendyk, Roberts, Nolan, Tucker, Francis (late edition)
Defense: McCabe, Kaberle, Leetch (late edition)
Goal: Belfour

Any of those years the Leafs were Cup contenders and maybe even a couple more in between but I think those were the best. Say what you want about Tucker, but the guy was a player back then and Reichel and Roberts and Renberg were still pretty decent. That 2004 team would have shocked no one had they won.

 

[sr edler]

You truly believe that? I think the Leafs could have won the Cup from 1998-'04 and the hockey world wouldn't have been shocked. These were their best years IMO:

1998-'99: Forwards: Sundin, Thomas, Perreault, Berezin
Defense: Berard, Kaberle, Cote, Yushkevich, Jason Smith
Goalie: Joseph

this team is good defensively but the forwards are crap, how can you expect a team to win the cup when the second best forward offensively is sergei berezin?

 

[Big Phil]

this team is good defensively but the forwards are crap, how can you expect a team to win the cup when the second best forward offensively is sergei berezin?

How about the team who the the NHL in goals? Yes that's right. The 1999 Leafs led the NHL in goals with 268.