Post-Game Talk: Plus-Minus Thread | Penguins 5, Lightning 3

[Jaded-Fan]

The game had the look of a Flyers/Pens game in some ways with the sloppy play and a lot of momentum swings. Difference is the Flyers usually win those kind of games against us and Tampa didn't. I'm not a fan of games like this or the Flyers games but I could see them being entertaining from a neutral POV.

Beau knows 5 on 3's. Nice to see him get his first in the NHL.

I can't believe this is the same Paul Martin. Shero said in an interview over the summer that a lot of our fans just hadn't got to see the Paul Martin that was such a good player in New Jersey. Looks like we are finally getting to see that guy.

A number of us said that he was going to have a bounce back year. That said, I also at the time highly doubted that it would be here. Thank God that a lot of the armchair GMs did not have their way with him going. I still think that he does not finish that contract here, we have too much talent which will be cheaper coming up through the system. But he is extremely important to any cup hopes this year and next.

 

[TheStinger]

Didn't see any of the game as I was at work, but congrats to Beau Bennett on his first NHL goal. May it be the first of many.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Didn't see any of the game as I was at work, but congrats to Beau Bennett on his first NHL goal. May it be the first of many.

Sentiments echoed.

 

[BmxHockey]

+Bennett & finally a right handed power play goal!

-Malkin hanging out with Te'os girlfriend.

-Doc and Pierre's references to college hockey.

+I was at a Ducks game watching Lovejoy make mistakes.
-I was at a Ducks game not watching the game on TV.

 

[JackHughes86]

i wanted sid to get the hattrick

 

[Ogrezilla]

These types of games routinely happen though with this team.

not just our team. most teams

 

[Shrimper]

Didn't manage to see the game as my laptop crapped out and I had no battery left. Had to keep a track of the game on the Penguins app on my phone. Glad that Sid is back to scoring more regularly and that Martin is playing so well compared to last season. One of the biggest highlights has to be Bennett's goal though, hopefully he can start to strive from there on. Also, the Neal-Sid-Kunitz line was deadly. I want to see more of that.

 

[switch23]

 

[ColePens]

Did Bylsma really say he wants his FOURTH line against Tampa's top? Did he see how the fourth line did against Giroux and the Flyers?

I think DB is a hell of a hockey coach, but his stubbornness is hilarious. What hockey coach at ANY level would say this?

 

[Ogelthorpe]

I'm just curious why people feel that our system, especially defensively, is bad? Why do people always insist that every goal that the other team scores is due to the opposing coach making these great adjustments, and "out coaching" DB?

Let's look at tonight's 3 goals against.
1) A bad turnover that Orpik flubbed 2-3 times. He had plenty of time and space and just failed to make the play. The puck comes back into our zone and eventually takes a bad bounce off of Orpik and in. That is on execution and a little bad luck.

2) 5-3 PP goal mainly because Adams took a needless penalty at a bad time. Whether you agree with the call or not, there was no reason he needed to chase the guy behind TB's net when we are short. That results in a wide open 5 on 3 PP goal for on of the leagues best scorers. Chalk that goal up to bad decision making on Adam's part.

3) Shot from the point that goes off of Vitale's skate right thru Orpik to Conacher wide open on the back door. Another Flukey bounce.

Why do people think that these are due to being "out coached" or "poor systems"?

 

[NastyNick]

I honestly feel like this team is more composed with Malkin out of the lineup.. at even strength. Malkin has a tendency to play his own way, and its very difficult for guys not named James Neal to deal with it. They'll definitely miss his creativity next time they are down in a game, but defending a lead seems a bit easier when all lines are playing the system.

The powerplay is another story. It seems like Blysma hasn't given up in the Letang experience.. even more so when there is an open slot. Letang just doesn't have the patience to be a good PP QB. I don't know if they are missing this.. or if they are hoping he learns through trial by fire. I hope it is the latter.. because it is brutal to watch. Malkin is such a huge loss here in more ways then one.

Paul Martin for Norris..

 

[Florentino Ariza]

Nobody is going to mention specifically how absolutely dominant sid was with neal on his line?

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

+Bennett's first NHL goal. It's early, but it kind of hinted at what we might hopefully see on the PP for years to come. Sid on the right faceoff circle with a cross ice pass to Bennett, who one-times it into the gaping cage.

That's huge for me. It's not just that BB scored his first goal, it's that he scored it in exactly the way most of us envisioned - a one-timer from the left circle on the PP.

Beauty.

 

[Tender Rip]

I'm just curious why people feel that our system, especially defensively, is bad? Why do people always insist that every goal that the other team scores is due to the opposing coach making these great adjustments, and "out coaching" DB?

Let's look at tonight's 3 goals against.
1) A bad turnover that Orpik flubbed 2-3 times. He had plenty of time and space and just failed to make the play. The puck comes back into our zone and eventually takes a bad bounce off of Orpik and in. That is on execution and a little bad luck.

2) 5-3 PP goal mainly because Adams took a needless penalty at a bad time. Whether you agree with the call or not, there was no reason he needed to chase the guy behind TB's net when we are short. That results in a wide open 5 on 3 PP goal for on of the leagues best scorers. Chalk that goal up to bad decision making on Adam's part.

3) Shot from the point that goes off of Vitale's skate right thru Orpik to Conacher wide open on the back door. Another Flukey bounce.

Why do people think that these are due to being "out coached" or "poor systems"?

What a curious game to pick for this argument.... Or perhaps rather predictable cherry picking?
This is not a game where the system gets much blame. Mostly because the great majority agree with your reading of those goals. The only widespread criticism of Bylsma after THIS game is A: him making the conscious effort to match our 4th against their 1st, which would have back fired big time if Fleury hadn't had a big night. B: that we allow teams back in after being multiple goals up more than seemingly any other team in the league. At some point that stops being about 'them breaks'.

 

[Darth Vitale]

I liked how Beau celebrated his 1st goal as if it was his 23rd. He expects a lot more.

Bennett > Yakupov (or should that be ? )

I noticed the same thing someone else did, that even without the puck he knows where to be. Isn't just looking for open space and a pass all the time but instead going where he needs to be to help the team maintain posession in the zone, etc.

+ Team cycling - One of the better efforts we've had all year with cycling the puck

I noticed that too during the game. TB has some decent pesonnel on D so hopefully a little credit is due there.

Anyone else get indigestion any time the puck got anywhere near Brooks Orpik's stick?

*raises hand*

He sucks right now; the Costco-sized bottle of Tums I bought last month is already half empty. Has one year left on his deal, going on 33... clearly slowing down some. If Shero could find an experienced replacement, Orpik might provide a pretty good return on the trade market.

People questioning Orpiks play of late, just curious. do you see Bortuzzo as his long term replacement?

I think the consensus is he's not a replacement in the sense that he'll be hammering people all the time like Orpik used to do, but in terms of size and skill I'd say the possibility exists. Every shut-down guy doesn't have to be a bruiser.

+++ Pretty Sweet... Congrats Beau Dangles!

Nobody is going to mention specifically how absolutely dominant sid was with neal on his line?

Not sure I'd attribute that to Neal. Sid has looked pretty dominant at times the last several games. But I have little doubt once Crosby starts learning Neal's habits (in terms of where he goes without the puck), the goals will flow and Neal will not leave that line again. Turns out Sid's Neal is... Neal. The injury Gods have spoken.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

I don't understand why the **** Bylsma doesn't put out our leading scorers on the ice with the empty net. He could have played Sid last night and hoped for the Hat Trick. Maybe it's just me but Sid and Geno are never on when the other net is open late in the game, I mean playoffs and protecting the lead it's 1 thing regular season he could let them go for it and especially when a player has a 2 goal game going for the hat trick on home ice

 

[ColePens]

What a curious game to pick for this argument.... Or perhaps rather predictable cherry picking?
This is not a game where the system gets much blame. Mostly because the great majority agree with your reading of those goals. The only widespread criticism of Bylsma here is A: him making the conscious effort to match our 4th against their first, which would have back fired big time if Fleury hadn't had a big night. B: that we allow teams back in after bring multiple goals up more than seemingly any other team in the league. At some point that stops being about 'them breaks'.

I don't even see people complaining about the system. That's just a typical "i'm right!" argument from probably weeks ago.

Or he's thinking people posting about our blown leads (and blaming it on Bylsma) as a schematic issue? I have no clue. But while on topic, I definitely hate blaming a coach when it's the players continuing to blow leads, but it's become the norm. Unfortunately when something happens like that, you can't fire every player and have to put the blame on the coaching staff for not fixing it. 5 times in the last year we've lost 2 goal leads to Philly. How many blown leads have we seen this year, too? It's just a huge issue. No other way to put it.

In fact, a blown 3 goal lead probably made the difference in that Pens/Flyers series. I'd be interested to see what happens if we don't blow that lead.

Once or twice - I say "oh well, it happens in the NHL." How many times we've done it becomes an issue.

 

[mpp9]

I'd much rather have Sid or Sutter out against Stamkos. I don't think this is a case of DB being stubborn, it's being too cute. We had the lead, we don't need to give Sid the optimal matchup.

That kind of **** is gonna bite us in the postseason.

 

[JQR]

Not sure I'd attribute that to Neal. Sid has looked pretty dominant at times the last several games. But I have little doubt once Crosby starts learning Neal's habits (in terms of where he goes without the puck), the goals will flow and Neal will not leave that line again. Turns out Sid's Neal is... Neal. The injury Gods have spoken.

I don't know, it's proven to be much harder to find complimentary wingers for Malkin than for Crosby. I think Neal goes back with Malkin.

 

[Darth Vitale]

I don't know, it's proven to be much harder to find complimentary wingers for Malkin than for Crosby. I think Neal goes back with Malkin.

I'm not advocating it (I think Neal should be with Geno as often as possible), just saying that's probably the way it's going to work out. And truthfully before Neal we really never made an effort to acquire a legit winger for him. We just plugged guys in whether it was Ponikorovski or Dupuis or whoever.

 

[Richard]

I'm firmly in the trade Orpik camp. He really brings less than nothing to this team except the occasional big hit. I was yelling for him to hit the guy in front of the net with his purse. For being "physical" it is hilarious that Paul Martin is getting guys out of the trajectory of pucks on net better.

 

[mpp9]

Kulemin seems to be falling out of favor with Leafs fans. He's being used on a checking line with Grabo and its not working out too well. I'd see if a guy like Dumoulin would interest them. He can step in right now and/or give them depth on D for the postseason. Could make moving Komi a bit easier.

I think Bennett is here to stay. His play away from the puck is NHL ready, now he just needs opportunity to get his offensive game going.

Bennett-Malkin-Kulemin would be something Id like to see if doable.

 

[Ogelthorpe]

I don't even see people complaining about the system. That's just a typical "i'm right!" argument from probably weeks ago.

Or he's thinking people posting about our blown leads (and blaming it on Bylsma) as a schematic issue? I have no clue. But while on topic, I definitely hate blaming a coach when it's the players continuing to blow leads, but it's become the norm. Unfortunately when something happens like that, you can't fire every player and have to put the blame on the coaching staff for not fixing it. 5 times in the last year we've lost 2 goal leads to Philly. How many blown leads have we seen this year, too? It's just a huge issue. No other way to put it.

In fact, a blown 3 goal lead probably made the difference in that Pens/Flyers series. I'd be interested to see what happens if we don't blow that lead.

Once or twice - I say "oh well, it happens in the NHL." How many times we've done it becomes an issue.

I agree with this being an issue. I also heard someone mention that the Pens, especially the high end talent guys, try to protect a lead by adding more to it, instead of thinking Defense first. Maybe this is why DB is trying to use the 3rd and 4th lines a little more. Maybe he feels that guys like Adams and Vitale don't have the top end skill to always be thinking about scoring and thus are more willing to think defense first?

Once again, if we were just consistently getting outplayed from the drop of the puck, I'd say that is more on coaching. However, we are not getting outplayed a lot. We've scored first a lot this year, and we have built 2-3 goal leads. That usually means that the plan is working. I honestly think that when we build quick leads that the team starts just get hungry for more and wants to win by 10, instead of gearing down and holding on to 2.

That being said. I would like to see a little more mixing it up on the break out. Getting the forwards down a little lower more often, and then mixing in the stretch. I still however think that no matter who is coaching, players make decisions on the ice in every system, and bad decisions by a player make any coach's system look bad.

 

[Random Oracle]

I don't understand why the **** Bylsma doesn't put out our leading scorers on the ice with the empty net. He could have played Sid last night and hoped for the Hat Trick. Maybe it's just me but Sid and Geno are never on when the other net is open late in the game, I mean playoffs and protecting the lead it's 1 thing regular season he could let them go for it and especially when a player has a 2 goal game going for the hat trick on home ice

Not only do I hate this argument (the coach shouldn't worry about padding his players' stats, only winning), but you're flat out wrong. Crosby, Neal, and Kunitz were on the ice for the last shift of the game when Tampa had their goalie pulled. Neal even tried to get the puck to Crosby for the empty-netter but he couldn't connect.

 

[Darth Vitale]

I'm firmly in the trade Orpik camp. He really brings less than nothing to this team except the occasional big hit. I was yelling for him to hit the guy in front of the net with his purse. For being "physical" it is hilarious that Paul Martin is getting guys out of the trajectory of pucks on net better.

Yah it's a tough concept to accept because he's been a pillar of the D for so long (we assume "he has to be in the mix"). But truthfully if you take away the "he's the only guy who can hit someone into next week" stuff and look at his contributions (including to recent GA), he's not a strength for our D right now. Unquestionably you have to consider whether his replacement has the playoff experience, but Orpik is not the guy he used to be out there IMO. With all our young D coming up... if we could get a solid rental with playoff experience to step in for Orpik this year, giving Bortuzzo the experience he needs this year and next without being "the man"... maybe he can work his way onto that top pairing by next playoff.

Might be better to trade him now when teams can expect to have him under contract for another season, then to let him go to FA looking for his final "big contract". Someone would definitely be willing to give him a raise out there and I don't want us to do that given the other priority signings we have to make next year.