Please vote for the players who should be in the HoF someday

[Elvis P]

Please vote for the players who should be in the HoF someday. Unlimited votes.

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[Memento]

You forgot Yadier Molina. I know that he's borderline, but he definitely has a case for defense if Vizquel does.

 

[Cas]

Molina's case is much better than Vizquel's, as catchers remain somewhat underrepresented in the HOF due to the difficulty of their position shortening careers.

Vizquel is just plain not qualified. I don't see that he's significantly better than, say, Campaneris, Concepcion, Dahlen, Tejada, Rollins, Glasscock, Tulowitzki, Garciaparra, Dark, Fregosi, Stephens, Lundy, Moore, or others (particularly not once you also add in managerial or other credit to the picture, for Al Dark or Dickey Pearce). I'm not sure I'd vote for Vizquel if I was told to vote for the ten shortstops I thought most qualified.

 

[Dr Pepper]

Pete Rose absolutely should.

 

[jcs0218]

You forgot Yadier Molina. I know that he's borderline, but he definitely has a case for defense if Vizquel does.

Molina's case is much better than Vizquel's, as catchers remain somewhat underrepresented in the HOF due to the difficulty of their position shortening careers.

Vizquel is just plain not qualified. I don't see that he's significantly better than, say, Campaneris, Concepcion, Dahlen, Tejada, Rollins, Glasscock, Tulowitzki, Garciaparra, Dark, Fregosi, Stephens, Lundy, Moore, or others (particularly not once you also add in managerial or other credit to the picture, for Al Dark or Dickey Pearce). I'm not sure I'd vote for Vizquel if I was told to vote for the ten shortstops I thought most qualified.

Vizquel will eventually get in, unless his recent legal troubles cause voters to reject him.

He has 2877 hits (nearly at the 3000 milestone). The list of players with at least 2877 hits and not in the Hall of Fame only consists of players still active or players with steroid histories.

Career Leaders &amp Records for Hits | Baseball-Reference.com

He also won 11 Gold Gloves at the shortstop position, and this will be looked on very favourably by voters.

Vizquel does lack power numbers and run production. But so did Ozzie Smith. Ozzie Smith couldn't hit to save his life, yet he got in on the strength of defensive performance.

 

[Cas]

Vizquel will eventually get in, unless his recent legal troubles cause voters to reject him.

He has 2877 hits (nearly at the 3000 milestone). The list of players with at least 2877 hits and not in the Hall of Fame only consists of players still active or players with steroid histories.

Career Leaders &amp Records for Hits | Baseball-Reference.com

He also won 11 Gold Gloves at the shortstop position, and this will be looked on very favourably by voters.

Vizquel does lack power numbers and run production. But so did Ozzie Smith. Ozzie Smith couldn't hit to save his life, yet he got in on the strength of defensive performance.

Vizquel might well get in, though personally I doubt it, but as I said, I wouldn't even vaguely consider him.

Gold Gloves are pretty meaningless. They gave several to Derek Jeter, the worst defensive shortstop to spend most of his career at the position. They gave one to a DH. Vizquel was a legitimately excellent defensive player, but you still need more than just defense.

Ozzie Smith was a significantly better hitter than Vizquel - he was also a better hitter than Rabbit Maranville (who was elected in a completely different era, and was elected as much for his personality and antics than his performance) or Luis Aparicio (who was given a lot of credit for his basestealing, which Smith was also excellent at). For most of his prime, Smith was a decent hitter for average who walked a fair amount, stole a lot of bases at a good success rate, and played some of the greatest defense ever - Vizquel was less impressive on every count, and for less time. He just didn't generate all that much value - Smith was about twice as valuable throughout his career.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Vizquel might well get in, though personally I doubt it, but as I said, I wouldn't even vaguely consider him.

Gold Gloves are pretty meaningless. They gave several to Derek Jeter, the worst defensive shortstop to spend most of his career at the position. They gave one to a DH. Vizquel was a legitimately excellent defensive player, but you still need more than just defense.

Ozzie Smith was a significantly better hitter than Vizquel - he was also a better hitter than Rabbit Maranville (who was elected in a completely different era, and was elected as much for his personality and antics than his performance) or Luis Aparicio (who was given a lot of credit for his basestealing, which Smith was also excellent at). For most of his prime, Smith was a decent hitter for average who walked a fair amount, stole a lot of bases at a good success rate, and played some of the greatest defense ever - Vizquel was less impressive on every count, and for less time. He just didn't generate all that much value - Smith was about twice as valuable throughout his career.

My initial reaction was the same as yours, but the more I look at it. Smith wasn't any better of a hitter than Vizquel. I've come around to if Ozzie Smith is a HOF'er then Vizquel has to be too.

162 game average comparison:

Hits:

Smith - 155
Vizquel - 157

Slash line:

Smith - .262/.337/.328
Vizquel - .272/.336/.352

OPS+:

Smith - 87
Vizquel - 82

 

[Cas]

My initial reaction was the same as yours, but the more I look at it. Smith wasn't any better of a hitter than Vizquel. I've come around to if Ozzie Smith is a HOF'er then Vizquel has to be too.

162 game average comparison:

Hits:

Smith - 155
Vizquel - 157

Slash line:

Smith - .262/.337/.328
Vizquel - .272/.336/.352

OPS+:

Smith - 87
Vizquel - 82

87 to 82 is pretty significant over a long period, and it's more OBP-heavy in context (the 80's being a weaker offensive period than the 90's). That adds up to a rather substantial advantage for Smith.

Smith is 117 batting runs below average over his career; Vizquel was 244 below (twice as bad). This should be combined to the 95 run gap between the two in terms of baserunning and DP avoidance and 110 run gap in defense (Vizquel was good, Smith was superb).