Playoff Penguins

[BlacknGold4life]

I am not sure what prefix to use for this thread. I feel that it should be separate from the Salary Cap thread. However, Cole can move this if he feels it shouldn't have its own thread or should be elsewhere.

THIS THREAD SHOULD NOT BE A TRADE PROPOSAL THREAD. IT'S PURPOSE IS LONG TERM IN WHAT WE NEED TO DO/FIX TO WIN THE CUP.
(please no unrealistic suggestions like Kane or ROR).
**You can include players and how/why you think they could help this team win a cup..
-System
-personnel
-etc


Looking at the playoffs


Pens PK (ranked #2)
(3 forwards that should be in a playoff lineup, but the D-depth is great)
F-Sutter
F-Goc
F-Spaling
F-????
F-(Depth)-Adams/Ebbett/Comeau or Sid??
D-Scuderi
D-Letang
D-Martin
D(depth)-Maatta/Ehrhoff/Despres

-Do we need 1 to 2 more PK capable players? If not who fills that role?

We have 9 capable PP1 and/or PP2 people (ranked #5)
Forward: Sid, Malkin, Hornqvist, Perron, /Kunitz/, Sutter, Beau.... Comeau and Downie(Depth)
on D: Letang// Ehrhoff, Maatta, Martin, Despres(depth)

On our PP's we use a total of 7F and 3D, so I think we are solid there.

Our PK on the other hand I think it needs to add 1-2 forwards that can keep our PK tops in the league without giving up a F spot to a guy for the sole reason of being a PK specialist like we currently do.

How do we fill that void? Internally or Trade?

Currently we know we will probably not have only 1 player for the playoffs, which is Duper. Assuming no other injuries (we can revisit later) and with the players we currently have, what do we need to acquire or what do we have internally that can fill this void.

(My)Keys to the Cup:
-improve our face-off numbers (Malkin )
-find a PK specialist or someone for a top 9 position whether its top 6 or even in the 12 spot that can do more than just kill penalties. It would be nice if we could quickly convert Farnham into a PK specialist for the times he isn't in the box+ he draws a lot of penalties and have him be the 12th man.
- More physicality/ in your face player-- that do what opponents do to Sid during the playoffs. GRIT
-Stay Healthy (of course)
-Fleury cannot get hurt. He is our guy.
-Get Sid scoring

Current Line-Up in a Cup Run:::::

Forwards:
Perron - Sid - Hornqvist
Comeau - Malkin - (Trade/Rust/Horn/Downie)
Kunitz - Sutter - Beau
Spaling - Goc - Downie
EXTRAS/DEPTH::::Farnham/Adams/Ebbett/Sill/Megna

Downie could go to 3rd line and Kunitz to top 6 + one of the "Depth" players could fill the 12th spot. Which one?

Defense:
Maatta - Letang
Martin - Ehrhoff
Scuderi - Despres
Bortz

I don't think we should trade Martin like everyone thinks. He is a vet that brings stability and can contribute. I think both Martin and Ehrhoff will be crucial in a cup run.

-Possibly even pick up a cheap experienced d-man at the trade deadline as the 7/8 D in case of injuries to shore up the D. It would have to be very cheap. He wouldn't play more than a handful of games unless there were injuries.

Click to read more...

 

[BlacknGold4life]

If I may add one suggestion based on rumors. T.J. Oshie might be available. He would cost 4.5M against the cap (2yrs left) he or a player similar to him would be the only player I would consider moving Martin (or Scuderi) for or someone of a similar cap hit.

I don't feel comfortable with Harrington, DP, or BD yet for a playoff run, although it would be nice to get them regular season experience.
Therefore I don't think it would be wise to give up 1 of our 7 players that I have confidence in for the playoffs.

Oshie can kill penalties, play on PP, is an in your face type of a player/ impact player that could fill that RW spot in top 6. It's not crucial b/c I like our top 6 and have players capable of filling it and the depth. But I don't think we should be looking at one of these big name ROR or Kane or what not.

 

[penguins2946*]

With no other moves, we have:

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Malkin-Bennett
Comeau-Sutter-Downie
Spaling-Goc-Adams

Martin-Letang
Maatta-Ehrhoff
Scuderi-Despres

Fleury-Greiss

What we need IMO is a physically imposing 3rd/4th line winger. The top-6, D and goalies are set already, we just need a big and physical 3rd or 4th liner (preferably one that is a decent playmaker). Zach Kassian fits that extremely well, and we would be set up with:

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Malkin-Bennett
Downie-Sutter-Kassian
Spaling-Goc-Comeau

 

[Boocock]

With no other moves, we have:

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Malkin-Bennett
Comeau-Sutter-Downie
Spaling-Goc-Adams

Martin-Letang
Maatta-Ehrhoff
Scuderi-Despres

Fleury-Greiss

What we need IMO is a physically imposing 3rd/4th line winger. The top-6, D and goalies are set already, we just need a big and physical 3rd or 4th liner (preferably one that is a decent playmaker). Zach Kassian fits that extremely well, and we would be set up with:

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Malkin-Bennett
Downie-Sutter-Kassian
Spaling-Goc-Comeau

Could Marcus Foligno be a more feasible trade target here? He's clearly a career 3rd/4th liner with skill.

 

[canadianguy77]

As long as we go into the playoffs with Kunitz in the bottom 6 and Scadams not dressed I'll be happy.

 

[penguins2946*]

Could Marcus Foligno be a more feasible trade target here? He's clearly a career 3rd/4th liner with skill.

Yeah he would work very well as well. I also think he may be a better fit than Kassian since he's a natural LW and he would most likely be cheaper to acquire than Kassian.

 

[Will Hunting]

With no other moves, we have:

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Malkin-Bennett
Comeau-Sutter-Downie
Spaling-Goc-Adams

Martin-Letang
Maatta-Ehrhoff
Scuderi-Despres

Fleury-Greiss

What we need IMO is a physically imposing 3rd/4th line winger. The top-6, D and goalies are set already, we just need a big and physical 3rd or 4th liner (preferably one that is a decent playmaker). Zach Kassian fits that extremely well, and we would be set up with:

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Kunitz-Malkin-Bennett
Downie-Sutter-Kassian
Spaling-Goc-Comeau

Antoine Roussel that is, but I don´t know if he´s available. Dallas needs D, though. Of course, another TOP6er would be even nicer, but that´s not realistic right now and it would be very expensive as well.

 

[penguins2946*]

Antoine Roussel that is, but I don´t know if he´s available. Dallas needs D, though. Of course, another TOP6er would be even nicer, but that´s not realistic right now and it would be very expensive as well.

Roussel is an interesting idea. He's more in the Downie mold of an agitator than the physically imposing winger that I was thinking of. With saying that, he's probably a whole lot better than that physically imposing winger. Another pro is that Roussel wouldn't look out of place in the top-6. It would probably cost Despres for Roussel, which I don't think many would be willing to do. Still, a Roussel-Sutter-Downie line would be an absolute ***** to play against.

Either way, I don't think we're far off from having a set roster for the playoffs. Roussel would be ideal, but he would probably cost too much. If there is any way we could get him for cheaper, I would love to bring him in.

 

[KIRK]

As constituted, the Pens will be among the favorites in the East, but I'm not sure they're anything more than a pick 'em against either of the NY teams.

That said, I'm looking at three things:

1. Adding a winger into the top six. Minimum of a Tlusty caliber winger, but I think there's a real opportunity, in terms of the Pens assets, to find a younger winger with term who's addition would be a total game changer in the East and position Sid and Geno better than at any time since 2008 to lead the Pens in the playoffs.

2. A physical presence in the bottom six, a Dwight King type.

3. I'm not sure that I love the mix on defense. Not the quality of players, but I think we could use a guy who brings a physical/PK element.

One thing that bears mention: It is important to realize how much of a once in a lifetime the 2009 run was. Sid and Geno could make due with less in the East, not because they can make due with less against anyone, but only in that year because they avoided any team that played a defensive, structured game. And, when they met that team in the finals, remember two things: One, Sid got shut down totally in the way he's been in every series against a tough defensive team since. Two, the biggest reason-- by far-- that Geno and Staal enjoyed success was because Datsyuk wasn't healthy. If he were, then it would've been Franzen-Datsyuk-Hossa on Geno and his line, and they'd have been shut down every bit as much as Sid was. Plus, the trickle down would've meant Filpula against Staal, and that's not the type of matchup at which Staal excelled.

I think in this thread-- which I hope will be a good one-- part of the debate will revolve around the lessons of 2008 and 2009. Is the best way to make a team most likely to win the cup to build around Sid and Geno and then seek balance and depth from there (even if it means there will be some 'weaknesses'), or is it to be deep and balanced and ask Sid and Geno to make due with substantially less than their peers?

One way to look at that is to say 'well, the Pens won in 2009, so of course that's the model'. Obviously, I don't, as I think the success in 2009 and the failure in 2008 was about health (of Malkin and Datsyuk specifically) and matchups, not construction.

It will be interesting to see which way the Pens go.

That they've experimented with Kunitz on L3 (even with Malkin playing with the **** he's had the last few games) or Horny with both Sid and Geno and talk about seeing Perron with both and then have seen Downie with Sid and Comeau with Malkin and now Beau with Geno could be read either way, as seeing if the team is good as it is now OR see who's getting the next big add based on who plays well with whom.

Personally, I think JR is a 2 year GM, and he's going to go for it. Looking for a game changing top six add and, failing that, a quality rental. I think he'll look at the other areas mentioned too.

 

[SEALBound]

Barring a trade, you run:

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Comeau-Malkin-Bennett
Kunitz-Sutter-Downie
Spaling-Goc-Adams

Make a trade, using Tlusty as an example:

Perron-Crosby-Hornqvist
Tlusty-Malkin-Bennett
Kunitz-Sutter-Comeau/Downie
Spaling-Goc-Downie/Comeau

PK'er

Sutter/Goc/Comeau/Downie/Spaling

PP

Crosby/Geno/Hornqvist/Letang/Perron/Kunitz

I doubt there is a move on defense. With that:

Letang-Maatta
Martin-Ehrhoff
Scuderi-Despres
Bortuzzo

MAF in the net.

Keys to the playoffs:

-Perron and Hornqvist have to play at a level that takes pressure off Sid. I don't think Perron and Hornqvist are guys are can leave alone and focus on Sid alone. With that, they have to make teams pay.

-Malkin's wings take pressure off him for the same reasons.

-MAF needs an 08/09 like performance. He HAS to bail us out multiple times. If he doesn't we don't make it. He needs to be consistent to boot. Can have him up and down. Just can't. He's the pillar in which everything else grows off. Doesn't matter what the defence or offense does if he's letting in the softies.

-The Power Play. Don't know what they have to do to figure it out...but they need to. A 40% PP will help. A 10% PP will be the death nail. We have to convert at least 25% of the time.

-The PK. Has to be as good as it's been. Period.

-Letang. Needs to be the Norris caliber dman he's been this year. He needs to play with a certain amount of maturity.

-Leadership. We don't need a "veteran leader". We have them. The leaders need to lead. Sid and Geno need to shrug off the BS and stay out of the scrums. With that, if they get harassed, we need guys like Downie and Bortuzzo and Farnham to lay people out and make them pay. No more Dubinsky and Staal like antics. We need to protect our best players.

-Luck. We need it. No injuries. A couple of bounces. Always makes or breaks a series.

 

[IcedCapp]

I don't think he'll stay healthy enough for it to matter, but if Bennett is healthy in the playoffs, Comeau - Malkin - Bennett would absolutely be good enough to take advantage of the match-ups they face. I'd just tell Comeau to play like he did for Columbus: hit everything that moves. Give Geno and Sunshine all the room they need.

It'll be Ebbett - Malkin - Rust.

Whatever.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

As long as we go into the playoffs with Kunitz in the bottom 6 and Scadams not dressed I'll be happy.

The former is a possibility, the latter is an improbability.

For whatever reason, MJ seems to still view Scuderi as a key cog on the blueline. And while he's limited Adams' ice time somewhat, especially in comparison to DB, he still dresses Adams ahead of guys who add a lot more to the team.

For this team to go deep, I think it's crucial to have a bottom six that can contribute. Having Adams (and Sill) in the lineup, even if it's in a fourth line role, essentially means the 4th line can be counted on for zero offense. That's gotta change.

On defense, I'm a bit worried about how soft the blueline is. Despres is physical, and when he dresses, Bortuzzo adds that element as well. But when everyone is healthy, Despres seems relegated to 6th defenseman and Bortuzzo is a healthy scratch. Other than Letang (who is feisty and hits), the rest of the blueline is tissue paper soft and not difficult to play against.

 

[cygnus47]

When Ehrhoff is playing well he is a ***** to play against, obviously Despres too. Whoever Letang is with shouldn't spend more than a moment in their D zone anyway. So I'm not too worried about our physicality at D. It's more important to build pressure on the forecheck anyway because we should have the puck when it is in our D zone.

If Maatta comes back and plays well, Scuderi won't be as much of an issue. Having both Scuds and Bortuzzo in the lineup really messes with our ability to move the puck because they both need looking after and they're no good together. Short of getting rid of Scuds, the best thing we can do is leave Despres to suffer with him and make sure our top 4 is extremely good (which means Bortuzzo sitting).

Martin - Letang
Maatta - Ehrhoff
Scuderi - Despres

That's a cup quality defense, even if it could be better with Scuds exclusion. At even strength that lineup is barely going to see their own zone with all the puck moving ability.

The two things I'm most worried about for the playoffs are our special teams and the way we handle (or rather don't handle) other Metro division teams.

Our PK is good by % but I don't like the look of it. We haven't been a threat to score for most of the season and we're not aggressive enough to force teams to think twice about their strategies. You need pressure in the playoffs for the PK to succeed. The powerplay is also a worry. Essentially our only quality weapon at the moment is Hornqvist's net front play. Sid and Geno don't seem to use each other much at all, Letang is great at keeping pucks in but he telegraphs all his passes so we aren't a one-timer threat and Kunitz is completely unnecessary. Apart from broken plays, Hornqvist has been the main reason we scored any goals. If we can't simplify, get the personnel right and adjust to teams like Philly who have our number, we're not going to get goals when we need them.

I think the best way to describe our special teams is that regardless of the outcome, they don't seem to build any momentum for us and that is absolutely critical if we're to go anywhere in the playoffs. If we have any doubts about our ability to build pressure on special teams, it will ruin our mental game.

We also need to get up for our rivals. The Rangers and Islanders have made us look stupid regularly this season, Columbus (if they make it) will be a huge threat and even Philly we can't seem to beat. We're going to have to beat at least 1, and likely 2 teams that currently have our number in our division and they will want it worse than our guys. I think changing that should be our number 1 priority building towards April.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Ideally, with everyone healthy, I'm hoping for this come playoff time:

Perron - Sid - Hornqvist
[Trade] - Malkin - Bennett
Kunitz - Sutter - Comeau
Downie - Goc - Farnham

Again, I still want to see JR ship out a big ticket asset for another stud, long-term solution at wing for Geno. But, healthy, we're in a lot better shape than we were a week ago. Gettin' there--still lots of work to do, but gettin' there.

 

[wheelz87]

Ideally, with everyone healthy, I'm hoping for this come playoff time:

Perron - Sid - Hornqvist
[Trade] - Malkin - Bennett
Kunitz - Sutter - Comeau
Downie - Goc - Farnham

Again, I still want to see JR ship out a big ticket asset for another stud, long-term solution at wing for Geno. But, healthy, we're in a lot better shape than we were a week ago. Gettin' there--still lots of work to do, but gettin' there.

That looks damn good, that's exactly what I want to see. With Rust at the moment being number 13. My dream winger for that long term solution is JVR/Kane but I digress.

Anyways a serious question for those who possess a higher hockey IQ than myself.. having a strong 4th line can be absolutely vital to a team's playoff success. My question is.. what does Sill-Goc-Adams provide moreso than a Farnham-Goc-Rust line? Pretend those are the options available. Playoffs are a long time away, but Sill just got healthy and bam he's in the lineup. Adams comes back and he's not missing a game anytime soon it seems. It appears Rust will be the next to get phased out, as Farnham may already have. Farnham has been nothing but an absolute positive for this team. Creates energy, causes havoc, can cycle.. all things Adams (and Sill) haven't done this year!! MJ even complimented him, then scratched him?? Rust is a nice player that definitely brings more than those two as well, yet it seems Adams and Sill are clearly IN. What am I missing? In fact, I'll go as far as saying Sill-Goc-Adams can easily lose you a series, while the opposite could be true for Farnham-Goc-Rust.

And just realized I completely forgot about Spaling in the projected lineup.. well **** lol.

 

[drpepper]

One of the main issues in the last two playoffs is failure to convert on the powerplay. It has had a two-fold effect. (1) The Pens don't score goals, and (2) other teams can take penalties without much concern for consequences.

The roster (when healthy) is currently constructed with a lot of options on the powerplay - Crosby, Malkin, Perron, Hornqvist, Kunitz, Letang, Ehrhoff. However, the comparisons of the early powerplay (from the first 16 games) with the recent powerplay (the next 24 games) are disappointing.

• The team isn't drawing enough PP particularly in proportion to PK.
• The unit needs to be healthy. Hornqvist is currently out. Perron is new. Both Kunitz and Crosby have missed a few games.
• Early success was partially driven by unsustainable shooting percentages. On-ice sh% was above 20% for the unit, and Malkin and Kunitz were both personally shooting above 30%. Currently on-ice sh% is around 10% with Kunitz shooting 25%.
• Shot measures (shots, scoring chances, corsi, and fenwick) per 60 minutes have decreased substantially.
• Blocked shots in particular have increased.

Tocchet and the first power play unit has the figure **** out if the team has any hope of advancing in the post-season.

The other structural issues are more defensive.

D-zone coverage looked great for the first month and a half or so. However, injuries and new players in and out of the line-up has resulted in less successful coverage and in increase in goals against. Looking at goals against, shots against, etc demonstrates this pretty aptly. Plus, players look lost in the d-zone and frequently fail to pick up their responsibilities (see Bruins 2nd goal last night). Cleaning up the d-zone coverage has to be a priority.

The other issue is the struggle with the breakout, neutral zone transition, and zone entry. Defenders take entirely too long with the puck and frequently are starting deep in the defensive zone. Forwards are frequently out of a position to help with too much space between the forwards and defenders. This combination results in bad passes, poor decisions and turnovers which is exacerbated by fast, hard fore-checking teams. See NYR, NYI, WPG and most recent MTL and BOS games for examples where this hurts the team. Once in the neutral zone, there is limited forward movement and a lot of bad passes. Zone entry with possession is frequently unsuccessful as the forwards don't have any speed, the opposing defenders have good gap, and passes are inaccurate. One of the things Malkin has done this season is by-pass the breakout & transition phases and carry the puck the length of the ice for a zone entry. Frequently this is successful because he has speed and possession of the puck. However, that leaves the three other lines **** out of luck, and his solo efforts also lead to turnovers. If the team doesn't address this issue than I don't see them having much success against good fore-checking teams.

 

[meangene]

Perron - Crosby - Hornqvist
Kunitz- Malkin - Bennett
Downie - Sutter - Comeau
Spaling - Goc - Sundqvist

Sundqvist has shown at camp and in pre-season that he hasn't had much trouble adapting to the smaller ice, and will do anything to help his team win. After the SEL season ends in early March, a stint in WBS before joining the team for a playoff run could really help out.

He's a capable bottom six forward who can play center or wing, has an identifiable mean streak but can chip in offensively as well. Plus recalling wouldn't cost PIT any D prospects (obviously). Any lineup with Downie, Sundqvist, Bortuzzo, and Despres has plenty of grit to it.

 

[billybudd]

Pens PK (ranked #2)
(3 forwards that should be in a playoff lineup, but the D-depth is great)
F-Sutter
F-Goc
F-Spaling
F-????
F-(Depth)-Adams/Ebbett/Comeau or Sid??
D-Scuderi
D-Letang
D-Martin
D(depth)-Maatta/Ehrhoff/Despres

Unless you have a magic wand that fixes blood disorders, that fourth forward is Adams, like it or not.

 

[Gurglesons]

Unless you have a magic wand that fixes blood disorders, that fourth forward is Adams, like it or not.

Judging by the way he is used, even if Dupuis was healthy we'd probably scratch Downie.

Adams is a leader on the penalty kill. Adams is a physical force. ADAMS is PITTSBURGH PENGUIN hockey.

 

[billybudd]

Judging by the way he is used, even if Dupuis was healthy we'd probably scratch Downie.

Adams is a leader on the penalty kill. Adams is a physical force. ADAMS is PITTSBURGH PENGUIN hockey.

Man, I should not be as mad as you're making me right now at 2 PM on a Thursday

 

[BlacknGold4life]

Arcabello is no Oshie like I had hoped, but can play the PK. undersized but plays physical so that is ok.. I think we are set.. maybe another depth pickup at the deadline or upgrade a current player? Who?

Perron RW:

K-C-P
C-M-H
D-S-B
S-G-Arc

Perron on LW

P-C-H
C/K- M-B
K/C-S-D
S-G-Arc

PK (F): Sutter, Goc, Spaling, Arcabello

This will be a pretty sick lineup. I am going to like it. Now I think the only need at the deadline is a D-man with Maatta out. Nothing big or flashy. Just someone responsible.

 

[Waffle Fries]

This will be a pretty sick lineup. I am going to like it. Now I think the only need at the deadline is a D-man with Maatta out. Nothing big or flashy. Just someone responsible.

I will be pretty upset if we trade for a dman. Any dman. I don't see why we would need to. We still have about 9 defensemen without Maatta.

 

[BlacknGold4life]

I will be pretty upset if we trade for a dman. Any dman. I don't see why we would need to. We still have about 9 defensemen without Maatta.

I don't know about you but I am not about to trust DP, Harrington, or Dumoulin in the playoffs. Especially when it looks like Harrington is playing well and still what a -8. We have 6 NHL experienced players and that is counting Bortz. I do think we should be getting those guys games before the playoffs but right at this minute I don't want to put a playoff run in their hands this season.

 

[roquay]

Arcabello is no Oshie like I had hoped, but can play the PK. undersized but plays physical so that is ok.. I think we are set.. maybe another depth pickup at the deadline or upgrade a current player? Who?

Perron RW:

K-C-P
C-M-H
D-S-B
S-G-Arc

Perron on LW

P-C-H
C/K- M-B
K/C-S-D
S-G-Arc

PK (F): Sutter, Goc, Spaling, Arcabello

This will be a pretty sick lineup. I am going to like it. Now I think the only need at the deadline is a D-man with Maatta out. Nothing big or flashy. Just someone responsible.

That second line up is very good.
We are so much better than last year and have solved a lot of our issues:
Playmaking wingers
Bottom 6 depth
Goaltending (Fleury is in career best form)

 

[Til the End of Time]

i still feel like this team is built more for the regular season than the playoffs.

the blueline is talented but most of the guys arent the sort that thrive in postseason style hockey. third and fourth line are ok but still subpar for a deep playoff run. sid/geno still dont have enough help imo. goaltending goes without saying.

clutching and grabbing are worse now than ever, so i can only imagine what the playoffs will look like. and the pens seem not at all equipped to take advantage of that.