Playoff All-Star Teams

[Hawkey Town 18]

18 total voters is pretty weak

According to the article that's what it is every year, and the members are rotating. I agree with you that more voters would be better, but my guess is that they need the voters to be physically present at the final game and that's why the number is so low. Sure there's a lot of media there, but how many of them were closely following the entire playoffs and not just the Final?

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

We also never finished 2014...

Kopitar - ??? - ???
Doughty - ???
Lundqvist

Forward Candidates: Williams/Carter/Gaborik/Kane

D Candidates: McDonagh/Keith


Really don't know on the forwards.


Thoughts?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Definitely Jeff Carter for one spot...

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Given that Williams actually won the Smythe, he's the easiest pick for 2014

 

[Michael Farkas]

Bleh...he's borderline for me...the Smythe pick - again - was based in story and fable than actual greatness...not to say that Williams was garbage or that he didn't score some big goals...but he was maybe the Kings third best forward in those playoffs...which, naturally, doesn't include Doughty either...

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Bleh...he's borderline for me...the Smythe pick - again - was based in story and fable than actual greatness...not to say that Williams was garbage or that he didn't score some big goals...but he was maybe the Kings third best forward in those playoffs...which, naturally, doesn't include Doughty either...

I agree with this line of thinking, not saying he shouldn't be one of our All Stars, but I don't like just blindly giving it to him because he got the Conn Smythe, not when we were all watching ourselves (would be different if we were doing this for an O6 playoff that none or few of us saw).

Let's look at how our forward candidates did during the Conf Final and Cup Final...

Going to start with the Conf Final, which I believe was actually the more important/bigger series...

Carter: 7 GP - 5G - 6A - 11 Pts (+3)
Kane: 7 GP - 2G - 8A - 10 Pts (+0)
Williams: 7 GP - 2G - 5A - 7 Pts (+4)
Gaborik: 7 GP - 3G - 1A - 4 Pts (+2)


Cup Final...

Williams: 5 GP - 2G - 5A - 7 Pts (+2)
Gaborik: 5 GP - 2G - 1A - 3 Pts (+0)
Carter: 5 GP - 2G - 1A - 3 Pts (+1)


Kings combined stats...

Carter: 12 GP - 7G - 7A - 14 Pts (+4)
Williams: 12 GP - 4G - 10A - 14 Pts (+6)
Gaborik: 12 GP - 5G - 2A - 7 Pts (+2)


Total Playoff Stats...

Carter: 26 GP - 10G - 15A - 25 Pts (+5) - 0.96 ppg
Williams: 26 GP - 9G - 16A - 25 Pts (+13) - 0.96 ppg (1 OT winner)
Gaborik: 26 GP - 14G - 8A - 22 Pts (+6) - 0.85 ppg (1 OT winner)
Kane: 19 GP - 8G - 12A - 20 Pts (+5) - 1.05 ppg (2 OT winners)



Based on this I would drop Gaborik out of the running. Still not sure on the other 3 though.


EDIT: It's easy to give it to the 2 Kings because they won, but it also feels weird having all 3 forwards from the same team

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

How do you guys feel about McDonagh vs. Keith?...I'm leaning towards McDonagh

 

[Batis]

1992
Francis - Lemieux - Jagr/K. Stevens
Chelios - Murphy
Barasso

For what it is worth this is what Scott Morrison (president of the professional hockey writers association at the time) had to say about the 1992 Conn Smythe voting at the end of the final game.

Scott Morrison: "Well like it was last year I think that its fairly obvious but 25 ballots have been distributed and collected and their being tabulated right now and basically how we conduct it is 3 votes 5-3-1 points system and we will see how it adds up but I think its fairly certain who the winner will be."

John Davidson: "Yes 66 Mario Lemiuex. Is it more a question of who comes second?"

Scott Morrison: "Well probably second and third and there is a number of good choices Jagr, Barasso, Rick Tocchet maybe Kevin Stevens but number one is certain."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vgBbF5M2zA&t=138m15s

It would be really interesting if it would be possible to find the full voting results of the Conn Smythe voting throughout the years. Regarding the 1992 voting the mention of Rick Tocchet instead of Ron Francis surprised me here. Now it is of course possible that Francis beat out Tocchet in the voting since this is only one voters opinion but still interesting.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Ok let's make the team for 2017...

IMO Crosby and Malkin should be locks for 2 of the forward spots.

Candidates for the last spot: Forsberg, Guentzal, Getzlaf (I'm leaning towards one of Guentzal/Getzlaf on this one)


My gut instinct for the D spots are Josi and Karlsson. I don't think anyone on Pittsburgh is worthy of a spot. Do Ellis, Subban, or Ekholm have a case over either of the two I mentioned?


Goaltending feels like it should be Rinne, even though he had multiple bad games. I can't give it to Murray with him playing less than 2 series. I know Rinne didn't have the greatest Final, but who else are you going to give it to? Was Anderson better than Rinne after the first 3 rounds?


Looking forward to hearing some feedback...

 

[Sonic Disturbance]

Ok let's make the team for 2017...

IMO Crosby and Malkin should be locks for 2 of the forward spots.

Candidates for the last spot: Forsberg, Guentzal, Getzlaf (I'm leaning towards one of Guentzal/Getzlaf on this one)


My gut instinct for the D spots are Josi and Karlsson. I don't think anyone on Pittsburgh is worthy of a spot. Do Ellis, Subban, or Ekholm have a case over either of the two I mentioned?


Goaltending feels like it should be Rinne, even though he had multiple bad games. I can't give it to Murray with him playing less than 2 series. I know Rinne didn't have the greatest Final, but who else are you going to give it to? Was Anderson better than Rinne after the first 3 rounds?


Looking forward to hearing some feedback...

Agree with Crosby and Malkin. Forsberg... eh... he was very quiet in the final. Guentzel was good but his stats are better than his actual play. He was not a driver and was quite inconsistent. He was so bad in the Ottawa Series that he got demoted to the fourth line and was almost scratched in Game 1 of the SCF (probably would have been if it wasn't for the Penguins' injuries too). I'd probably go with Getzlaf TBH even though he choked in the clinching game again. Goalie would still have to be Rinne. Bad Finals, but too good overall. Karlsson is an absolute lock for one spot and I'd actually go with Ekholm for the other. Josi is better offensively with better stats but Ekholm was far superior defensively. Ekholm was the horse on that Nashville defense IMO.

 

[seventieslord]

Malkin - Crosby - Getzlaf
Josi - Karlsson
Anderson

definitely Getzlaf, Karlsson and Anderson could be revisited.

 

[quoipourquoi]

Crosby-Getzlaf-Malkin
Josi-Karlsson
Rinne

Two bad games should not knock out Rinne. He still allowed just 72.4% of what an average goaltender would allow against these opponents. Obviously he was trending for higher placement prior to Games 1 and 2, but he still landed in the dead zone just beneath most Conn Smythe hopefuls from the past 30+ years.

Josi was the only one I wasn't completely sold on, which isn't a criticism of him, but the others felt much more obvious.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Malkin - Crosby - Getzlaf
Josi - Karlsson
Anderson

definitely Getzlaf, Karlsson and Anderson could be revisited.

Did you have Anderson ahead of Rinne after round 3 or did you have Rinne ahead and then dropped him because of his performance in the Final?

 

[seventieslord]

Two bad games should not knock out Rinne. He still allowed just 72.4% of what an average goaltender would allow against these opponents.

The later rounds get weighted more heavily, and the latest round gets weighted the most heavily. Rinne was .888 in the finals and was chased twice.

Did you have Anderson ahead of Rinne after round 3 or did you have Rinne ahead and then dropped him because of his performance in the Final?

The latter, without a doubt.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Crosby-Malkin-Getzlaf
Ellis-Karlsson
Rinne

 

[quoipourquoi]

The later rounds get weighted more heavily, and the latest round gets weighted the most heavily. Rinne was .888 in the finals and was chased twice.

The .888 doesn't tell us much given the breakdown of his six games.

7/11
21/25
27/28
23/24
6/9
27/28

Played great three times, played awful three times. I'd much rather have that than what my head tells me when I hear .888 goaltending, because those red games have me thinking he's played well enough to go to Game 7. Combined with the first three rounds, and I think he had a pretty nice playoff for himself. The Penguins goalies could have made it interesting. Anderson with a better 2nd Round could have backed into the spot with Rinne's rough Finals.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

The later rounds get weighted more heavily, and the latest round gets weighted the most heavily. Rinne was .888 in the finals and was chased twice.




The latter, without a doubt.

This brings up an interesting point...when comparing player A who played 3 rounds to player B who played 4 rounds is it fair to punish player B for the extra games he played?

On one hand you can say all playoff games should be considered, but on the other hand you can say more was demanded of player B (playing a 4th series). We don't know how player A would've been able to handle a 4th series.

Looking at it from an all-time ranking perspective, if you were comparing a player with a 10 year career to a 12 year career and the last 2 years of the 12 year career were poor we wouldn't rank the 12 year guy behind the 10 year provided he had the edge in those first 10 years.

However, player B can't just get a complete free pass for the 4th round. If a goalie was a complete sieve every game or a forward/Dman was taking multiple dumb penalties every game that cost his team then he should be dropped. So I think the question is, what kind of weight do you give the 4th round when it comes to a lesser performance? It obviously has to be less weight than if both players were playing in the Final, but how much less? And then ultimately, did Pekka Rinne's sub-par performances on the road in the Final qualify him for a drop below Anderson this year?

 

[Harry Kakalovich]

Crosby/Getzlaf/Forsberg
Josi/Karlsson
Murray

That's my opinion. Crosby Josi & Karlsson for sure. I could see Malkin instead of one of the other two and Rinne instead of Murray. I really thought Forsberg was pretty outstanding.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Elis was the Conn Smythe favorite from Nashville from about the start of round two into the middle point of the SCF...surprised to see he has fallen out of favor...

 

[quoipourquoi]

Elis was the Conn Smythe favorite from Nashville from about the start of round two into the middle point of the SCF...surprised to see he has fallen out of favor...

That does not strike me as being a widespread opinion.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Most of my opinions are not...for better or for worse...I just call it how I see it...

 

[quoipourquoi]

Most of my opinions are not...for better or for worse...I just call it how I see it...

Oh, I thought when you said favorite, you meant a universal favorite. No issue with anyone seeing Ellis or really any of the Nashville defensemen there.

 

[Theokritos]

Most of my opinions are not...for better or for worse...I just call it how I see it...

Totally fair, but you said you're "surprised to see he has fallen out of favor". Which implies others shared your high opinion on Ellis earlier on but doesn't share it anymore now.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Crosby-Getzlaf-Malkin
Josi-Karlsson
Rinne

Two bad games should not knock out Rinne. He still allowed just 72.4% of what an average goaltender would allow against these opponents. Obviously he was trending for higher placement prior to Games 1 and 2, but he still landed in the dead zone just beneath most Conn Smythe hopefuls from the past 30+ years.

Josi was the only one I wasn't completely sold on, which isn't a criticism of him, but the others felt much more obvious.

I agree with this.

IMO, Crosby, Malkin, and Karlsson are the only 100% definites, but for the rest, I do lean Getzlaf, Josi, Rinne.

To be honest, I barely watched Nashville before the finals, so I would definitely be open to an argument for any of Nashville's big 3 D as the 2nd defenseman.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

This brings up an interesting point...when comparing player A who played 3 rounds to player B who played 4 rounds is it fair to punish player B for the extra games he played?

On one hand you can say all playoff games should be considered, but on the other hand you can say more was demanded of player B (playing a 4th series). We don't know how player A would've been able to handle a 4th series.

Looking at it from an all-time ranking perspective, if you were comparing a player with a 10 year career to a 12 year career and the last 2 years of the 12 year career were poor we wouldn't rank the 12 year guy behind the 10 year provided he had the edge in those first 10 years.

However, player B can't just get a complete free pass for the 4th round. If a goalie was a complete sieve every game or a forward/Dman was taking multiple dumb penalties every game that cost his team then he should be dropped. So I think the question is, what kind of weight do you give the 4th round when it comes to a lesser performance? It obviously has to be less weight than if both players were playing in the Final, but how much less? And then ultimately, did Pekka Rinne's sub-par performances on the road in the Final qualify him for a drop below Anderson this year?

If we are comparing forwards -

If Center A outscored Center B by a good margin through 3 rounds AND Center A made the finals, while Center B was eliminated after 3 rounds, nobody would think Center B had a better playoffs, even if Center A laid an egg in the finals.

But for some reason, it's the reverse for goaltenders.

I've long been an advocate for treating goaltenders more like forwards, so to the extent that shot-based metrics for goalies are to be used, I prefer counting stats like GVT or GAR to averaging stats like save %.

And I assume Rinne easily led the playoffs in GVT and GAR.