Players Who Hurt Their Teams/Their Legacies By Not Retiring/Ending Their Careers Sooner

[daver]

Look at his point production in 1986, and then look at his point production in 1990 (29), and 1991 (age 30). Still a young man, but he's scoring a third less than during the glory days of shinny hockey (even while still with Edmonton, there's a drop-off of nearly 18% between 1985-86 and 1986-87, then it stabilizes in 1987-88, but remains well below the 210+ we were seeing a few years earlier). The reason why I believe Gretzky stopped being a 200-point scorer after 1986 is that the league quickly began to shift to a league featuring better goaltending, more systematic coaching, better athletes (who kept themselves in better condition throughout the year), and more consistent systems play.

Gretzky wasn't injured (pre-September 1991), it's just that the game Wally taught him on the Blessed Backyard Rink (TM) to dominate changed and the slow, lumbering, unintelligent players he exploited in the first-half of the 1980s were being pushed out of the league from 1987 onward. He's the most context-dependent of all the great players, but no one seems to want to acknowledge it. Other great players, like Howe, were able to skate through multiple generations and suffer only stubborn declines, but Gretzky's game did not age well when compared to many great players before him - largely because I think the era helped make the man. A Gretzky in the O6 era still runs away with the scoring title, but not in the devastating manner he did in the free-wheeling 1980s when he's playing with a team loaded with more talent than any other team in the NHL. And Gretzky at no age is going to score as he did in the 1980s if he's transported to the NHL of the mid-1990s onward.

He needed the NHL game of 1980-86 almost as much as it needed him.

What does this have to do with the OP?

To your point though. I don't a peak Wayne not scoring 200 plus points in seasons after 1986 up to 92/93 where scoring by the elite players was just as high as the early to mid-80s.

 

[ShelbyZ]

IMO while it can certainly be argued that Messier's stint in Vancouver may have done some damage to his legacy, I don't think it was because he should have hung them up after 1997.

Despite his dip in production and never again making an appearance in the playoffs, he was still a productive regular season player. He went from around .81/PPG with Vancouver to never dipping below .51/PPG when he ended back with the Rangers. Although I don't have the data in front of me, that's probably much better than what you would get from the average NHL forward at the ages 36 to 43.

I think a more appropriate thread title where "Messier in Vancouver" in relation to his legacy being harmed is an answer, would be "Players who hurt their teams/their legacy by choosing to sign with another team/leave a team they've been with for a long time/etc. etc.". And yes, I'm aware that Messier leaving NYC wasn't completely by his choosing. That said, if Messier never leaves the Rangers, he probably doesn't come up in threads about "hurt legacies". Additionally, as far as the "their team" part, the Rangers probably would've been better off giving Messier closer to the money he wanted, so he wasn't drawn to the big Canucks offer. Just think, had the Rangers re-signed Messier, THE LEAGUE would've been better off without the ridiculous offer sheet they handed to Sakic in an attempt to replace Messier, and they wouldn't have had to then rely on a fragile LaFontaine playing against doctors advise as the eventual replacement.

On a side note, it would be interesting to see what players come up in the aforementioned hypothetical "Players who hurt their teams/their legacy by choosing to sign with another team/leave a team they've been with for a long time/etc. etc.". From a Red Wings fan standpoint, I would assume Fedorov and Shanahan would get frequent mention...

 

[c9777666]

Steve Yzerman

The last image of him as a player should have been that 2002 Cup when he had a heroic 23-point playoff run despite a nagging knee, an all-time legendary performance, up there with the better non Conn Smythe performances.

The next year, he played only 16 games after recovering from knee surgery that came right after the Cup Finals. Why not go out on top ala Scotty Bowman?

The funny thing is that he played 75 and 61 games in 2004 and 2006, respectively, but at that point I still wonder why he didn't go out with a bang?

He didn't go out with a complete whimper, but still I think that would have been the right time to say goodbye.

Instead of him walking off the ice at Edmonton in the spring of '06, this would have been a great final image for Stevie Y:

 

[scott clam]

Steve Yzerman

The last image of him as a player should have been that 2002 Cup when he had a heroic 23-point playoff run despite a nagging knee, an all-time legendary performance, up there with the better non Conn Smythe performances.

The next year, he played only 16 games after recovering from knee surgery that came right after the Cup Finals. Why not go out on top ala Scotty Bowman?

The funny thing is that he played 75 and 61 games in 2004 and 2006, respectively, but at that point I still wonder why he didn't go out with a bang?

He didn't go out with a complete whimper, but still I think that would have been the right time to say goodbye.

Instead of him walking off the ice at Edmonton in the spring of '06, this would have been a great final image for Stevie Y:

You might be right.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

-In his last season, he's outplayed by Chris Osgood during the regular season and posts a pretty mediocre SV% much lower than the season before. Despite this, the Red Wings go with him to start the playoffs. He starts great, then has a couple rough outings in Nashville. His last ever NHL game action is getting pulled in game 4 against the Preds after allowing 3 on 14 shots. The Red Wings then go with Osgood, who is stellar in leading them to the Stanley Cup. One of my last memories of Hasek was him gleefully celebrating the Cup win with his team on the ice and then getting interviewed by that Katrina Hancock lady (the Detroit news lady that told the Pittsburgh media the Pens had better fans) and asked how it felt to win despite losing the starting job. Hasek responded with "Ahh who cares" in his Czech accent.

I think this is my favourite story about the guy.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

Steve Yzerman

The last image of him as a player should have been that 2002 Cup when he had a heroic 23-point playoff run despite a nagging knee, an all-time legendary performance, up there with the better non Conn Smythe performances.

The next year, he played only 16 games after recovering from knee surgery that came right after the Cup Finals. Why not go out on top ala Scotty Bowman?

IMO, the simplest answer is just that the kind of player who wins a cup on one knee isnt inclined to call it a career at the moment with the best optics, his first thought after winning the 2002 cup is figuring out how to do it in 2003. Calling it a day just wouldnt be in that kind of players DNA.

I do agree about 2006 though, up until 2004 I think Yzerman hanging on was reasonable, but by 2006 having Yzerman as an immovable living legend somewhere in your 3d or 4th lines while Datsyuk and Lang have the 1-2 spots and young guys like Filppula and Franzen are trying to break in was probably not good for the team, especially when Yzerman is in and out of the lineup, which changes everyones level of responsibility drastically every time you change the lineup.

 

[frisco]

It was sort of neat to see Lafleur comeback after a long absence but to see him putter around at 25% of his peak on a historically bad Quebec team....I don't know. That's the Lafleur a lot of younger fans will remember. Also, seemed like a publicity thing rather than a legitimate attempt to improve the hockey team from the Rangers and Nordiques point of view.

My Best-Carey