Players that never impress when you watch

[CrypTic]

That's all fair and fine..
However... that's clearly not reflected in the Karlsson comments I was referring to in this thread.

People are speaking in much more absolute terms than if they are simply commenting on him after merely a handful of periods...
and so I simply do not believe them in reference to Karlsson.

I agree with you about anyone making absolute comments about any player if they've only seen him play against their team or their team and a few other games (or, e.g., only against two or three teams). I don't think that's a fair way to assess anyone, not just Karlsson. I think most of the comments I saw ITT (not just about Karlsson but about, e.g., Stamkos, Tavares, Giroux, etc.) said that they were commenting only about the games against their team or said something to the effect of "I know he's a good player but I never seem to catch those games". Which IMO is a very fair thing to say. As long as whoever makes the comment about whichever player realizes that their viewing experience is limited and that it's entirely possible that they're not catching the great games by player X, it seems accurate to me.

I understand the frustration bc I've been through it with a few players and teams. It seems like I tend to guess wrong when I'm deciding which game to watch and I'll read in the gameday thread "exciting game", "great game by X player" or similar and it seems like I decided that another game would be more interesting. Then if I switch to the exciting game/player, that one goes cold. It's probably not true. I probably notice it more when it happens than when I pick a fun game to watch and it works out but that's what I remember. It was similar with Karlsson and McDavid with me. I'd watch specifically to see those players then they wouldn't be having a good game or period.

 

[Ogrezilla]

to be fair, this thread isn't asking which players people think are overrated or anything. Its asking for guys who don't impress when you watch. I think that clearly leaves itself open to people who don't see guys play often being fair game. Not to say some aren't still wrong. I remember people saying Karlsson wasn't playing well vs the Pens last time we played them and I think he had 3 points

Stamkos and Burns are the big ones for me. Both are obviously good, but they don't seem as good as advertised when I see them. Stamkos just isn't very noticeable imo, as I explained last page. Burns I almost never get to watch since west coast games are on late, but for a Norris candidate he really didn't impress me in the finals.

 

[nmbr_24]

Eric Karlsson, some people say he is elite defensively, I have seen him in probably 100 games and I have yet to see it once. I have seen some good plays but I have seen good plays from Dennis Wideman too.

 

[KingBilly]

Maybe I am a biased Sens fan, but I can't understand why so many people are saying Karlsson. The question isn't "most overrated". I could kinda get that given the hype he receives. But the guy is electric on the ice. You notice him. He's the closest thing in the NHL to a quarterback. It's very eye catching. If he's overrated it's because he is so eye catching.

For me I'd say Stamkos. I don't watch a ton of Lightning games but it seems like a play has to line up perfectly for Stamkos to score, usually a one timer. He doesn't seem game breaking, like he can take his team on his shoulders, generate something out of nothing.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Not necessarily. I love to watch Karlsson but I am usually not impressed when I see him play against the Sharks. I had to start watching Ottawa in other games before I understood the hype. Same with Giroux. I now understand why ppl like them but they never looked special when I watched them mainly in games against the Sharks. I'm sure that there are fans of other teams where it's similar.

Lmao, here's an entire game for you against the Sharks. Unless you became fan just recently. Also, the first game against Sharks this year your broadcast guys couldn't stop talking about him especially on some defensive plays, lmao.

Yup, as I noted earlier in this thread, Karlsson puts up TERRIBLE possession numbers against good teams and players. Overall he's just not able to impose his will against the very best and fans of good teams can see that. We're not waiting around for him to pounce on a mistake, we're watching our team skate circles around him.

Lol or him skating circles against your team each game

 

[CrypTic]

Lmao, here's an entire game for you against the Sharks. Unless you became fan just recently. Also, the first game against Sharks this year your broadcast guys couldn't stop talking about him especially on some defensive plays, lmao.

He did play well in the first game against us this season. But I was talking about how I hadn't generally been that impressed with his play against us in prior years. I never said he never made any good plays during that time. I don't understand why you are so defensive. Every player in the NHL (or any sport) has bad games. More than one even.

Also, Phu is a Sharks' fan. Not sure why you're putting up a Habs game.

Edit to add: I don't always agree with our announcers so I"m not sure why you added that either. That's true whether they're praising Sharks' players or other teams' players.

 

[Panthaz89]

Karlsson's career numbers against teams mentioned in this thread:

Montreal: 8 goals and 28 points in 33 games
Boston: 4 goals and 18 points in 32 games
San Jose: 5 goals and 13 points in 11 games
Chicago: 0 goals and 8 points in 10 games
Buffalo: 11 goals and 25 points in 33 games
Pittsburgh: 5 goals and 24 points in 22 games

So I can see an argument for Boston kinda (based on him not living up to his hype against them), but any of the other teams? Hell no. Other teams that may make sense include the Canucks (3 goals and 4 points with a -16 in 14 games), Stars (2 goals and 4 points with a -8 in 8 games), Anaheim (1 goal and 5 points with a -9 in 11 games) and Nashville (1 goal and 6 points with a -6 in 11 games).

Not everything is about points........i'm pretty sure that everyone who has mentioned him has seen how man points he puts up over a season. He just seems to give a lot of opportunities to the other team in his own zone or give up breakaways because he can't catch them too often while other elite defenseman tend to get back and dive to give the guy no chance to score.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not everything is about points

Well he's an offensive defenseman, so in his case, a lot of it is about points. If someone is trotting along at a PPG pace or so on your team, saying "he doesn't impress me when I watch him" is downright idiotic. I don't think Karlsson has been very good defensively against the Penguins (he's like -11 in 22 games against them in his career IIRC), but his offensive game is so overwhelming that I can't say that he hasn't impressed me.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

The biases in this thread are so stupidly obvious

Yep.

It's mostly <insert biggest player on rival team here> kind of list.

 

[Panthaz89]

Well he's an offensive defenseman, so in his case, a lot of it is about points. If someone is trotting along at a PPG pace or so on your team, saying "he doesn't impress me when I watch him" is downright idiotic. I don't think Karlsson has been very good defensively against the Penguins (he's like -11 in 22 games against them in his career IIRC), but his offensive game is so overwhelming that I can't say that he hasn't impressed me.

I think the point of don't impress is that you get the impression that he can play better based on what people say about him.....its not like anyone is going to mention a guy that actually hasn't done much in the NHL. Not that it matters anyway I was just criticizing the people that say well "that's a garbage opinion because he impressed me" to other posters even though I clearly said Duchene was the one who doesn't really impress me. Not everyone has watched every game of every player and there is most likely someone i've watched that maybe you thought wasn't impressive after watching a few games of them.

 

[systemsgo]

I think the point of don't impress is that you get the impression that he can play better based on what people say about him.....its not like anyone is going to mention a guy that actually hasn't done much in the NHL. Not that it matters anyway I was just criticizing the people that say well "that's a garbage opinion because he impressed me" to other posters even though I clearly said Duchene was the one who doesn't really impress me. Not everyone has watched every game of every player and there is most likely someone i've watched that maybe you thought wasn't impressive after watching a few games of them.

I agree. I think it's an expectation vs. reality thing.

Is he impressive as an offensive talent? Hell yes. And his consistency year after year is what keeps him a tier above the others, like Burns, Subban etc who have peak years where they compete with #65. But when fans keep telling everyone he is elite defensively, I see why people are unimpressed by his defence because, to paraphrase another poster here, I've seen some of the ugliest defensive plays from him.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Hall. Plays the game like it's a video game, not in a good way.

Weber. Oaf of a defender with a big shot. He's Sheldon Souray at this point, and was always a slightly better version of him (before the injuries hit at least (for Souray)).

Carlson. Always left me underwhelmed defensively. Very dangerous offensively, though. (Capitals Carlson, just because I felt it was appropriate to point out given my comments)

Toews. Meh.

 

[TimThomas24]

Saad and Galchenyuk

 

[Ciccarelli]

Mattwhos

 

[Big McLargehuge]

I barely notice Stamkos most of the time I watch the Lightning play.

 

[Boud]

People saying Karlsson should re-evaluate the way they evaluate and look at hockey games. A multiple Norris winning defensemen, one of the most valuable assets in the NHL and a top 3 defensemen year in and year out. How can you not be impressed? It's against the laws of logic

 

[Poochie_D]

I barely notice Stamkos most of the time I watch the Lightning play.

He's a player that doesn't and shouldn't have the puck on his stick long. Typical pure goal scorer.

 

[DopeyFish]

Marner

Hey, a Sabres fan!

Leafs played Buffalo once this year. The score was 2-1. I wonder who scored both of those goals...

 

[Opado]

Patrick Liane

 

[shaner8989]

Toews
Galchenyuk
Doughty

 

[Ogrezilla]

He's a player that doesn't and shouldn't have the puck on his stick long. Typical pure goal scorer.

Indeed. And considering he's only scored goals in 9 of his 35 career games against the Pens, that explains why us Pens fans would be less impressed with him than most I guess.

 

[gordie]

Ovechkin. According to these boards over the years he is really a hockey God and not just mere mortal winger who can't get his Washington Capitals beyond the second round of the playoffs.

 

[Korpse]

Yup, as I noted earlier in this thread, Karlsson puts up TERRIBLE possession numbers against good teams and players. Overall he's just not able to impose his will against the very best and fans of good teams can see that. We're not waiting around for him to pounce on a mistake, we're watching our team skate circles around him.

Since you are such a big supporter of possession numbers.

Karlsson's CF% vs 100+ point teams

14/15: 51.3%
15/16: 52.9%

Karlsson has proven to be a strong possession player and is no less dominant against good teams. Do you think your the first fan base to come after Karlsson? It's cute.

 

[McGuiresMonsters]

Bishop
Schneider
Suter

 

[CrypTic]

Well he's an offensive defenseman, so in his case, a lot of it is about points. If someone is trotting along at a PPG pace or so on your team, saying "he doesn't impress me when I watch him" is downright idiotic. I don't think Karlsson has been very good defensively against the Penguins (he's like -11 in 22 games against them in his career IIRC), but his offensive game is so overwhelming that I can't say that he hasn't impressed me.

You may think that bc of how you watch teams. But I often watch EC teams play against all the CA teams bc they usually do them in a short time period. If you look, Karlsson tends to do well against one of those teams but the others not so much. And sometimes when he did well against the Sharks, it's bc we were slumping so pretty much every team looked impressive against us. And in some of those games, I thought that other players on the Sens looked better.

Part of that is expectations. It's like with McDavid: I expected to be blown away by his play bc of all the hype. I don't remember ever seeing him and thinking "he sucks". I do remember seeing games where I thought "great player but not head and shoulders above everyone else" so he didn't live up to the hype for me. (I've seen enough games now that I'm on the hype train.) Same with Malkin (who I have since seen in games where I completely understand the hype) or numerous other players. I write that off to a small sample size, especially for EC teams where I don't see them often enough to get a good feel about a player and his typical level of play.