Proposal: Player Target : Martin Necas

[MrGuyPerson]

I went with proposal for tag not sure it is applicable, but I saw someone suggest it in the Farabee speculation Thread. And it hit me how great of an idea it really is.

I do not know how aquiring Necas would get done(maybe people could speculate in the replies), but it feels like a major add that would seriously benefit the flyers.

Necas was a natural center as a prospect, he's capable of elite production, only 25, and most importantly I do not think Carolina can afford to re-sign him.

In the playoffs he is losing playing time in key situations to Jarvis/Gunetzel. With Teravainen, Guentzel, Skjei, and Pesce also having expiring contracts I do not think there will be much left to pay Necas. I also think that given their playoff usage so far it seems more likely Carolina will push to sign Guentzel rather than Necas after the season.

Do you guys think adding Necas would make the flyers better? Do you think it is possible to accomplish? And what do you think it would take to get it done?

Click to read more...

 

[BernieParent]

I am grateful for your idea and the rationale for why it might work. A scenario like this is probably the only pathway to getting a young top C outside of hitting on a draft pick.

 

[Magua]

I have nightmares about Briere “negotiating” with Carolina on anything.

 

[MrGuyPerson]

I have nightmares about Briere “negotiating” with Carolina on anything.

No faith in Briere, or the flyers org history of trades with the canes(Brind'amour/justin williams)?

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Could you point to what in his past makes you think he is capable if elite production?

Add in your definition of elite while you're at it.

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Could you point to what in his past makes you think he is capable if elite production?

 

[Magua]

View attachment 858525

 

[FlyerNutter]

Why chase Necas when one you can have Lindholm.

Born to be a Flyer

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Even if Briere does somehow end up trading for Necas I would expect two other decisions to completely counteract any benefit it might have.

 

[Starat327]

This feels like a Sanheim + Florida's first + Flyers 2026 1st (its not a rebuild!) For Necas and Brendan Lemieux type of deal. Maybe Briere wrenches their arm a bit and we get a 6th too.

 

[Adam Warlock]

If hes available he would be a fine target.

 

[BringBackHakstol]

I have nightmares about Briere “negotiating” with Carolina on anything.

It's important that both side wins, says Jonesy

 

[thedjpd]

This feels like a Sanheim + Florida's first + Flyers 2026 1st (its not a rebuild!) For Necas and Brendan Lemieux type of deal. Maybe Briere wrenches their arm a bit and we get a 6th too.

The OP was talking about Farabee, why are we talking about Sanheim and multiple firsts?

I think a Farabee for Necas (though I'd think we have to add a bit) trade may be a solid base in and of itself - just positional swap, assuming Necas can play C. If he's a RW permanently now, Flyers will hang up because they have too many of those as is.

But the bones make sense. Farabee is a highly productive ES winger, and with a decent PP will be a 60 point winger+, and is signed for $5M.

Necas is more offensively talented with ppg upside and more proven but will now be more expensive.

 

[Starat327]

The OP was talking about Farabee, why are we talking about Sanheim and multiple firsts?

I think a Farabee for Necas (though I'd think we have to add a bit) trade may be a solid base in and of itself - just positional swap, assuming Necas can play C. If he's a RW permanently now, Flyers will hang up because they have too many of those as is.

But the bones make sense. Farabee is a highly productive ES winger, and with a decent PP will be a 60 point winger+, and is signed for $5M.

Necas is more offensively talented with ppg upside and more proven but will now be more expensive.

Because we're also talking about Flyers reality, where the same management team was also talking about trading Sanheim + in exchange for Torey Krug.

The Flyers have a wildly incompetent management team. If you want to give them the benefit of the doubt in these hypothetical negotiations, by all means. They have too large a track record otherwise to allow me to compently post otherwise, unfortunately.

 

[thedjpd]

Because we're also talking about Flyers reality, where the same management team was also talking about trading Sanheim + in exchange for Torey Krug.

The Flyers have a wildly incompetent management team. If you want to give them the benefit of the doubt in these hypothetical negotiations, by all means. They have too large a track record otherwise to allow me to compently post otherwise, unfortunately.

I don't get this.

Everybody wanted this team to tank this year. This is the exact type of move that would have moved us toward that goal. Now, in hindsight, Sanheim finally woke up and realized his frame can support 20 more pounds and he can play like a top d-man (somewhat) consistently, that move (lack of) is now deemed a colossal failure in approach? That's the approach we all wanted. Everybody here wanted every 25+ player traded last year. People have criticized this management for their process their whole time - but from a process standpoint, that was consistent.

Sanheim himself said that the trade and his relationship with Torts made him approach this summer very differently. If you're on team tank, you'd have wished him gone and Krug here with another 1st this year.

From a straight value, it's a pure loss, this is obvious. But that's what everybody wanted isn't it? Now why is it free to criticize as if we knew Sanheim would play like a top dman? He himself didn't know it.

 

[ponder719]

I don't get this.

Everybody wanted this team to tank this year. This is the exact type of move that would have moved us toward that goal. Now, in hindsight, Sanheim finally woke up and realized his frame can support 20 more pounds and he can play like a top d-man (somewhat) consistently, that move (lack of) is now deemed a colossal failure in approach? That's the approach we all wanted. Everybody here wanted every 25+ player traded last year. People have criticized this management for their process their whole time - but from a process standpoint, that was consistent.

Sanheim himself said that the trade and his relationship with Torts made him approach this summer very differently. If you're on team tank, you'd have wished him gone and Krug here with another 1st this year.

From a straight value, it's a pure loss, this is obvious. But that's what everybody wanted isn't it? Now why is it free to criticize as if we knew Sanheim would play like a top dman? He himself didn't know it.

It doesn't matter whether I know it, you know it, or if Sanheim himself knows it. Brière is literally the person they are paying to know that shit, and to make decisions on the basis of knowing that shit.

If he doesn't know it, he should be criticized for not knowing, just as I should be criticized if I can't figure out how to craft a query in the database I manage. That's what I'm paid to know, and it's my responsibility to know or find out.

That said, I still would have understood if he had made that deal and Sanheim became this player for St. Louis, because DB would have been following a logical process, removing players who aren't perfect fits for the Michkov timeline in favor of assets that would be. However, I would have criticized him nonetheless for not getting more in exchange, because again, it's his actual job to know what his players are, and to maximize their value, either on the ice or in trades.

 

[MrGuyPerson]

Could you point to what in his past makes you think he is capable if elite production?

Add in your definition of elite while you're at it.

71 points in 82 games last season is pretty close to point per game, which is my personal threshold for team star first liner. His numbers dipped this season, but his role on the team was also reduced with Jarvis stepping up, svechnikov's return, and the Guentzel aquisition. It is speculative, but I do think if he gets first line minutes and increased responsibility it is likely his production will increase. Aside from that he has been part of a winning franchise for awhile now and I think it is good to aquire talent that knows what it takes to win. Most importantly he is young enough to fit the Michkov timeline, his contract probably won't break the bank, and he will be available.

I was a huge proponent of the flyers tanking to get top picks. However their performance this season really nipped that in the bud. The why they over performed can be debated, but the fact is that at the flyers current draft position the chances of them drafting a forward remotely as good as Necas is are slim, not 0, but not all that much higher than than 0. For this draft the reality is Outside Celebrini, Demidov, and a number of D, this draft class is looking meh. In addition to that they are likely to end up with a similarly mediocre pick again the next season and while the 2025 class has more forwards, the u18 wc will be good to evaluate how they compare to the high end forwards in 2024 class. However the main hope in the build through the draft plan would be if the flyers decide to tear it apart for 2026 draft(that draft class is actually loaded), but even if they do this it likely won't fit there timeline.

The issue with going for a top 3 pick in 2026 draft, is that even if a high end talent future star is taken, it will likely take 2-4 seasons for them to have star level impact in the NHL. Lets assume the flyers get a future star center in 2026. They start producing like a star in 2029. Why is that bad? Michkov will already have been in the US for 3 seasons. Call me crazy, but I see wasting 3 of their prime contending window seasons as bad. This excludes the fact that you will likely need to sell more assets to be bad enough to pick that high in 2025 or 2026. The alternative is getting stuck with more mid level 1st round picks in the process of fake contending which will yield equally bad odds drafting an actual star.

Necas is young enough, talented enough, and knows what it takes to win. Unless Draisaitl leaves Edmonton and chooses philly over Chicago, the highest bidder, or a legit contender, Necas is our best option for guaranteed great player. The Draisaitl thing also excludes the fact that it is super unlikely any star free agent would go within 500 feet of having torts as their coach

 

[renberg]

The Draisaitl thing also excludes the fact that it is super unlikely any star free agent would go within 500 feet of having torts as their coach

Here is a major problem. Tortorella is only acceptable for plugs; usually veterans who want to steal a salary for a season or two. Any player of talent, UFA or acquired in trade (Drug, RyJo and probably others) won't want to come here despite the organization's "great culture".

 

[GapToothedWonder]

71 points in 82 games last season is pretty close to point per game, which is my personal threshold for team star first liner. His numbers dipped this season, but his role on the team was also reduced with Jarvis stepping up, svechnikov's return, and the Guentzel aquisition. It is speculative, but I do think if he gets first line minutes and increased responsibility it is likely his production will increase. Aside from that he has been part of a winning franchise for awhile now and I think it is good to aquire talent that knows what it takes to win. Most importantly he is young enough to fit the Michkov timeline, his contract probably won't break the bank, and he will be available.

I was a huge proponent of the flyers tanking to get top picks. However their performance this season really nipped that in the bud. The why they over performed can be debated, but the fact is that at the flyers current draft position the chances of them drafting a forward remotely as good as Necas is are slim, not 0, but not all that much higher than than 0. For this draft the reality is Outside Celebrini, Demidov, and a number of D, this draft class is looking meh. In addition to that they are likely to end up with a similarly mediocre pick again the next season and while the 2025 class has more forwards, the u18 wc will be good to evaluate how they compare to the high end forwards in 2024 class. However the main hope in the build through the draft plan would be if the flyers decide to tear it apart for 2026 draft(that draft class is actually loaded), but even if they do this it likely won't fit there timeline.

The issue with going for a top 3 pick in 2026 draft, is that even if a high end talent future star is taken, it will likely take 2-4 seasons for them to have star level impact in the NHL. Lets assume the flyers get a future star center in 2026. They start producing like a star in 2029. Why is that bad? Michkov will already have been in the US for 3 seasons. Call me crazy, but I see wasting 3 of their prime contending window seasons as bad. This excludes the fact that you will likely need to sell more assets to be bad enough to pick that high in 2025 or 2026. The alternative is getting stuck with more mid level 1st round picks in the process of fake contending which will yield equally bad odds drafting an actual star.

Necas is young enough, talented enough, and knows what it takes to win. Unless Draisaitl leaves Edmonton and chooses philly over Chicago, the highest bidder, or a legit contender, Necas is our best option for guaranteed great player. The Draisaitl thing also excludes the fact that it is super unlikely any star free agent would go within 500 feet of having torts as their coach

Their timeline for MM outside of getting very lucky in the next few drafts is already f***ed, trading for somebody like Necas won't change that. Especially since with the assets that CAR would be looking for it would likely be a Lateral move as far as total team talent.

There is no trading themselves out of the hole they are currently in, they don't have the assets to bring in all the top end talent they need. Bringing in a guy that in his best season (which he has not repeated), who's numbers will dip when put on the Flyers PP and is 6 years older then MM is pointless. By the time MM starts to really hit his peak Necas will likely be 29. Is having a 29 yo Necas really going to have much of an impact vs what is currently here? Doubtful.

They're going to be stuck in mediocrity for the next handful of years, and when MM comes over they will be primed to repeat thr Giroux era , regardless of Necas being here or not.

Tossing around assets hoping a winger who will be 26 next year can become the Flyers new 1C would be peak Flyes though.

Also people can't accurately project draft classes the night of the draft, but you know which are going to be good or bad until 2026, okay.

 

[thedjpd]

It doesn't matter whether I know it, you know it, or if Sanheim himself knows it. Brière is literally the person they are paying to know that shit, and to make decisions on the basis of knowing that shit.

If he doesn't know it, he should be criticized for not knowing, just as I should be criticized if I can't figure out how to craft a query in the database I manage. That's what I'm paid to know, and it's my responsibility to know or find out.

That said, I still would have understood if he had made that deal and Sanheim became this player for St. Louis, because DB would have been following a logical process, removing players who aren't perfect fits for the Michkov timeline in favor of assets that would be. However, I would have criticized him nonetheless for not getting more in exchange, because again, it's his actual job to know what his players are, and to maximize their value, either on the ice or in trades.

Fair enough, criticism is warranted.

But no GM is infallible - and every GM gets lucky on many decisions or indecisions. It's fair to criticize that he didn't know or expect Sanheim to recover, but acknowledge that nobody really did either and that he should have known - but reality is, that's not how it works. Even the hope as fans is that if the process is sound that it 'eventually works out' - which isn't accurate either. Teams can tank for years to accumulate high picks, and end up in nowheres land. Teams can tank for years and end up with multiple superstars. There's such a wide variance in outcomes that it's hard to accept that luck isn't a factor.

From DB, I've seen some sound process choices, and some not. However, he has an opportunity to really pull some talent by moving TK (maybe land a Kulich-type) from the very teams where process has failed that now will rely on actuals - I hope he takes advantage.

No GM (or person) makes all the right calls, they get lucky too - and we did in this instance, and hopefully it serves as a reminder that he'd re-consider it next time, even if the process was sound.

Let's say that we do a TK for Kulich + something, and a Farabee for Necas. Suddenly, then we draft at 12 and 26 and suddenly our entire future out look becomes much more positive. It's like poker - the intention isn't to win every round - but make sure when you win, you win big. That's still TBD IMO.

 

[FLYguy3911]

The almost Sanheim trade wasn't a rebuilding or tanking move. It was a move to appease the coach who didn't want to coach him anymore (along with Hayes) before his NTC kicked in.

 

[MrGuyPerson]

Also people can't accurately project draft classes the night of the draft, but you know which are going to be good or bad until 2026, okay.

I follow prospects pretty closely. Yeah I think the 2025 forward class is deeper than 2024s. And I'm confident 2026 is gonna be deeper than both. Things have potential to change, but as far highend talent the 2026 class is looking elite. Gavin McKenna(Near Bedard production, on better team, but still), Viggo Björck(Over PPG on swedeish u17 as the only 08 on the roster, I.E. he was good enough to skip the u16 team of his fellow 08s), Ryan Roobroeck, Noah Kosick, Mathis Preston. The USA has a number of players showing really high potential players that are joining USNDTP or the ushl next season. The list is long, but JP Hulbert and Mikey Bearchild to name just 2. I specifically think the Swedish group in this draft year is exceptionally stronger than usual outside of Björck, Elton Hermansson, Ivan Sternberg(Late 07), Oscar Holmertz, Måns Josbrandt, a few more too. Filip Novak, Adam Novotný, and for me to a lesser extent Simon Katolicky are all very promising for the czechs. Russia has a few very impressive guys I want to see in the MHL, the one that gets the most hype is Fyodorov, but he has a couple peers worth monitoring and could end up better.

The 2025 class should be good a lot of talent there, but yeah I am very confident 2026 will not only be deeper, but have better top picks. McKenna and Björck are very advanced for this stage of development. Ryabkin, Hagens, Ihs Wozniak, and few others are really promising for 2025. To put it in context McKenna 97 points as a 15-16 year old in the WHL were only surpassed by drafted players, players who will be Drafted this year, or undrafted 20 year olds. So if you do not buy what I'm selling, I really hope you will at least hear me out on McKenna

 

[MrGuyPerson]

To put it in context McKenna 97 points as a 15-16 year old in the WHL were only surpassed by drafted players, players who will be Drafted this year, or undrafted 20 year olds. So if you do not buy what I'm selling, I really hope you will at least hear me out on McKenna

I just want the record to reflect this was posted just prior to McKenna scoring twice on Sweden in the first period of the first game of the U18 WC.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I follow prospects pretty closely. Yeah I think the 2025 forward class is deeper than 2024s. And I'm confident 2026 is gonna be deeper than both. Things have potential to change, but as far highend talent the 2026 class is looking elite. Gavin McKenna(Near Bedard production, on better team, but still), Viggo Björck(Over PPG on swedeish u17 as the only 08 on the roster, I.E. he was good enough to skip the u16 team of his fellow 08s), Ryan Roobroeck, Noah Kosick, Mathis Preston. The USA has a number of players showing really high potential players that are joining USNDTP or the ushl next season. The list is long, but JP Hulbert and Mikey Bearchild to name just 2. I specifically think the Swedish group in this draft year is exceptionally stronger than usual outside of Björck, Elton Hermansson, Ivan Sternberg(Late 07), Oscar Holmertz, Måns Josbrandt, a few more too. Filip Novak, Adam Novotný, and for me to a lesser extent Simon Katolicky are all very promising for the czechs. Russia has a few very impressive guys I want to see in the MHL, the one that gets the most hype is Fyodorov, but he has a couple peers worth monitoring and could end up better.

The 2025 class should be good a lot of talent there, but yeah I am very confident 2026 will not only be deeper, but have better top picks. McKenna and Björck are very advanced for this stage of development. Ryabkin, Hagens, Ihs Wozniak, and few others are really promising for 2025. To put it in context McKenna 97 points as a 15-16 year old in the WHL were only surpassed by drafted players, players who will be Drafted this year, or undrafted 20 year olds. So if you do not buy what I'm selling, I really hope you will at least hear me out on McKenna

I don’t doubt that you follow these things or that you can talk about the high end outcomes prospects like McKenna with some sort of meaning to it. But we’re talking about projecting class depth a year or two out. There’s no one on the planet who can reliably do that.

 

[MrGuyPerson]

I don’t doubt that you follow these things or that you can talk about the high end outcomes prospects like McKenna with some sort of meaning to it. But we’re talking about projecting class depth a year or two out. There’s no one on the planet who can reliably do that.

That is true. Nothing is certain in life