Player Discussion: Jake Virtanen | XIV

[Intangibos]

I'll never stop being smug about Ehlers/Nylander. I'm actively rooting for them.

Yeah, I'm feeling pretty smug in regard to this whole regime. Not only that, but the one acquisition I really liked and actively defended around here is the one that worked out (Baertschi). So I'm feeling pretty smug.

That combined with me calling the US election in February has me in smug overload. Everything I say is right.

Me on the right

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

Button was ripped to shreds here during that 6 month span or so, but he looks great in hindsight for making that call. Most of the other lists didn't have Virtanen lower than the low teens, even the ones that weren't high on him. I believe BPA on Button's board was Ehlers as well.

That's what I respect about Button, he watches a crap load of junior/college/euro games and comes to his own conclusions rather than going with groupthink and being afraid of looking bad. Sometimes he does end up looking bad when he's wrong, but he makes some great calls as well. His Torres comp for JV looks pretty spot on so far, although even he didn't predict that Jake would stop being a physical player.

One of the worst parts of the last few drafts are the Canucks very likely could have dropped down 3-4 spots while acquiring 2nd round picks because other teams would likely not have selected Virtanen or Juolevi. Its annoying that Winnipeg, Calgary and Toronto all were gifted Ehlers, Nylander and Tkachuk

I know its hindsight, but when 90% of HFBoards are in agreeance its not THAT much hindsight

 

[iloveloov*]

Isn't it a little bit early to talk about hindsight when the kids barely finished their second decade of life...

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

Isn't it a little bit early to talk about hindsight when the kids barely finished their second decade of life...

yes yes I know but when Tkachuk has 18 points in 31 games and Virtanen has 14 points in 65 games its frustrating, different draft years I know.

I suppose in comparison we did draft Horvat instead of Nichuskin, but that was a different regime.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

To keep this thread on point and not turn it into a Canucks drafting\benning sucks thread like every other thread becomes I will add this.

I do like Virtanen, I had him third of the 4 possible draftees at that position, in this order Ehlers, Nylander, Virtanen and Richie ( Larkin was never on my radar ) I've given him lots of chances to prove he was a good choice and I don't expect all players to break into the league at 18 and become impact players, but lately I have turned the corner on him and the reason is simple. Work Ethic.

I have no time for players that don't demonstrate the desire to work hard and get better every game. I am very disappointed to hear the latest reports on his commitment and until I hear differently he is going to be a player that I simple do not like. I'll still be happy if and when he succeeds and I won't root against him, but while he works on getting there I won't be supporting him

 

[iloveloov*]

yes yes I know but when Tkachuk has 18 points in 31 games and Virtanen has 14 points in 65 games its frustrating, different draft years I know.

I suppose in comparison we did draft Horvat instead of Nichuskin, but that was a different regime.

It definitely stings watching Tkachuk and Nylander and Ehlers and even Ritchie producing at the NHL level right now but this is a marathon not a sprint.

People on team tank should be happy that Jake isn't lighting it up in the NHL because that would mean more wins and fewer losses and thus worse draft positions over the next few years. Same thing with Juolevi. I'd rather add a Hampus Lindholm in 3 years than have a Matt Tkachuk now.

Speaking of Tkachuk.. last thing because this is the wrong thread.. he would be suspended for at least half the games already if he were a Canuck. Would have probably been a bad idea to draft him, he's a prototypical dirtbag.

 

[Johnny Canucker]

It definitely stings watching Tkachuk and Nylander and Ehlers and even Ritchie producing at the NHL level right now but this is a marathon not a sprint.

People on team tank should be happy that Jake isn't lighting it up in the NHL because that would mean more wins and fewer losses and thus worse draft positions over the next few years. Same thing with Juolevi. I'd rather add a Hampus Lindholm in 3 years than have a Matt Tkachuk now.

Speaking of Tkachuk.. last thing because this is the wrong thread.. he would be suspended for at least half the games already if he were a Canuck. Would have probably been a bad idea to draft him, he's a prototypical dirtbag.

Marathon or sprint doesn't matter. Ehlers, tkatchuk, Nylander all belong in the NHL and will for years. Virtanen can't even produce at the AHL level. He's a bust. Sure you can bring up a few cases of guys that developed late but they are more rare than the players that stuck early and stayed. Top 10 picks should be in the NHL bottom line. Our scouts are horrid and have been for maybe 20 years.

 

[beachcomber]

Marathon or sprint doesn't matter. Ehlers, tkatchuk, Nylander all belong in the NHL and will for years. Virtanen can't even produce at the AHL level. He's a bust. Sure you can bring up a few cases of guys that developed late but they are more rare than the players that stuck early and stayed. Top 10 picks should be in the NHL bottom line. Our scouts are horrid and have been for maybe 20 years.

Our scouts have been bad for 46 years.

 

[iloveloov*]

Marathon or sprint doesn't matter. Ehlers, tkatchuk, Nylander all belong in the NHL and will for years. Virtanen can't even produce at the AHL level. He's a bust. Sure you can bring up a few cases of guys that developed late but they are more rare than the players that stuck early and stayed. Top 10 picks should be in the NHL bottom line. Our scouts are horrid and have been for maybe 20 years.

Man it doesn't always work that way. Every reputable scout had Virtanen in the top 10 or somewhere around there. Every reputable scouting authority projects players early in the first round that go on to bust. There are SO many examples of this.. Jack Skille, Scott Glennie, etc. almost every year there are a few examples.

At this point it would be better for everyone, including the player himself, to just forget where he was drafted because otherwise expectations will just be too unrealistically high. That's where we are right now. Stop living in 2014, it's almost 2017. There are other players to be excited about while Virtanen sorts out his head.

Also better not hear anyone blame Benning for this pick before we know what we have & won't until he's 22-24 years old.

 

[tantalum]

Just because there are busts every year doesn't let a GM and organization off the hook for being the team that picked the bust. In particular, this organization who desperately needed to hit on that pick don't get to throw hands in the air and say "oh well busts happen! Whatcha gonna do?". They absolutely had to hit big on that puck.

 

[iloveloov*]

Just because there are busts every year doesn't let a GM and organization off the hook for being the team that picked the bust. In particular, this organization who desperately needed to hit on that pick don't get to throw hands in the air and say "oh well busts happen! Whatcha gonna do?". They absolutely had to big on that puck.

Understandable position. 2 points though and try to put away your dislike of management for a brief moment.

1. Does all the smoke behind ownership making the pick give you pause when trying to blame it all on Benning, Linden, or certain members of the scouting staff?

2. Do you think it's at all possible that Jake Virtanen will turn out to be the better pick or a reasonably good one due to circumstances that aren't clear at this present moment? E.G. Ehlers and/or Nylander leave their draft teams as UFAs or they are duds in the playoffs or they suffer career ending concussions, etc.

My point is, yes it looks bad right now, but it's too early to have a definitive opinion. If I was angry at management I would temper my reaction on this particular issue because it's unfair to say the jury is in on this.

 

[valkynax]

Just had a quick look, Shinkaruk has more than double the amount of pts JV has.

JV, you're making it more difficult to support you with each passing day...

 

[Intangibos]

Man it doesn't always work that way. Every reputable scout had Virtanen in the top 10 or somewhere around there. Every reputable scouting authority projects players early in the first round that go on to bust. There are SO many examples of this.. Jack Skille, Scott Glennie, etc. almost every year there are a few examples.

At this point it would be better for everyone, including the player himself, to just forget where he was drafted because otherwise expectations will just be too unrealistically high. That's where we are right now. Stop living in 2014, it's almost 2017. There are other players to be excited about while Virtanen sorts out his head.

Also better not hear anyone blame Benning for this pick before we know what we have & won't until he's 22-24 years old.

Except the last GM got fired for not being good at drafting, despite having to rebuild the worst scouting department in the NHL and drafting late every year because we were a contending team. Then this guy comes on board as a super scout who can 'hit with every pick'.

Literally the only thing Benning is supposedly good at is drafting, and he blew the most important pick we've had in like 15 years. Not only that, it seems like it was to appease the fans and get that local powerforward everyone complains about instead of picking the best player available.

Benning deserves every ounce of criticism he gets when it comes to the Virtanen pick. This team would undeniably be in a better position if we didn't dump Gillis for these buffoons, or even if we dumped Gillis and promoted Gilman. They 100% would have taken one of Ehlers or Nylander and this team would be looking up, not to mention we likely wouldn't have the other blunders Benning has given us. This management group, and ownership, has absolutely ****ed this franchise, and the Virtanen pick is probably the biggest blunder they've made. ****, at least Hodgson contributed enough to get a big contract somewhere, and has a major injury as an excuse for his career failing. This team needed to rebuild, and Virtanen was projected to be most likely a 2nd line power forward while Ehlers and Nylander were boom or bust prospects with elite 1st line potential. We needed to take the gamble with that pick and take not Virtanen. Even if Virtanen pans out, we still have a major hole where our 1st line should be as soon as the Sedins retire, or even right now given how they're declining.

Edit: Make no mistake, I'm not advocating for drafting by positional needs. That's entirely different. I'm suggesting that a team looking to contend soon may want to take a safer pick with less top end potential with a high draft pick, while a team at the start of a rebuild who desperately needs to get some top end talent may be more in a position to gamble to get that elite talent.

 

[Pavel96]

Okay so Hodgson will probably turn out to be a better Canuck draft pick than Virtanen (we did trade him and he signed a large contract with another team- he has some value for a while).

Is jake Virtanen a worse draft pick (not hockey player - although that is possible, read on) than Patrick White? White was selected 25th overall to Jake's 6th.

David Perron was selected right after White. Only notables selected after that are PK Subban (at 43) and Benn (at 129). Patrick white has been putting up a lot of points oversees in the last few years- he is still playing hockey and trying to compete (assuming this from his consistent stats playing hockey since leaving university).

Will Virtanen be scoring at a ppg level in any league in 5 years from now?

Will he end up being a worse draft pick than Patrick White (i'm thinking yes, relatively speaking)? If yes will you double down and say the Virtanen pick at 6 is worse than White at 25 and Taylor Ellington at 33? At this point I would.

 

[GreetingsFromCanada]

Okay so Hodgson will probably turn out to be a better Canuck draft pick than Virtanen (we did trade him and he signed a large contract with another team- he has some value for a while).

Is jake Virtanen a worse draft pick (not hockey player - although that is possible, read on) than Patrick White? White was selected 25th overall to Jake's 6th.

David Perron was selected right after White. Only notables selected after that are PK Subban (at 43) and Benn (at 129). Patrick white has been putting up a lot of points oversees in the last few years- he is still playing hockey and trying to compete (assuming this from his consistent stats playing hockey since leaving university).

Will Virtanen be scoring at a ppg level in any league in 5 years from now?

Will he end up being a worse draft pick than Patrick White (i'm thinking yes, relatively speaking)? If yes will you double down and say the Virtanen pick at 6 is worse than White at 25 and Taylor Ellington at 33? At this point I would.

Yes, people actively begin to accept busts once we hit pick 20. Schroeder, Gaunce and Jensen busted hard and no one really cares. White was comically bad that's why his legacy lives on. He's playing in the French league (Dijon) now and only has 10 points in 24 games, lol

 

[canucksfan]

Too early to call Jake a bust yet. If he doesn't improve at all in theAHL this year the bust label should be discussed.

 

[iFan]

Jake isn't making much of a case for himself, too soon to call him a bust and throw the towel in but he needs to start producing. I don't know how he's been looking down there but the stat sheet sure doesn't look good, by this point he should've had some buzz around him, if it wasn't producing pts it should be around him playing hard and making a difference with his gritty play.

 

[RobertKron]

Jake isn't making much of a case for himself, too soon to call him a bust and throw the towel in but he needs to start producing. I don't know how he's been looking down there but the stat sheet sure doesn't look good, by this point he should've had some buzz around him, if it wasn't producing pts it should be around him playing hard and making a difference with his gritty play.

He's just about in shape enough to play 15 minutes a game!

 

[jonnygf40]

I for one am giving Virtanen a bit of leeway. He was rushed into the NHL, and never should have been playing until he was seasoned in the AHL first. Now, management is trying to correct that wrong by leaving him with Travis Green the rest of the year. Hopefully Green can show him the correct path to becoming a full time NHLer. Also, look at the Comets roster .... that is one bad team. If Virtanen can;

1. Get into shape
2. Learn to play 'his' game
3. Learn to be a pro
4. Get a proper workout program (in season and off season)

I would be happy with his progress. If he doesn't put up huge points this season, I wont be terribly disappointed. I mean, who is he playing with this year? A whole bunch of nobodies ... that's who. That entire roster, Virtanen and Demko aside, has no NHL talent. For a team that is supposed to be developing NHL talent, the team is bare of any future Canuck stars. Anyways, history shows us that power forwards take a bit more time to develop, I mean Vancouver has seen that first hand on two occasions ... Neely and Bertuzzi. Hopefully Jake can turn things around, and get the proper development he needs with a coach that actually knows what he's doing.

 

[Verviticus]

subban has been consistently more success every post-draft year vs virtanen. he is a better nhl talent than virtanen at this point

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

"Guys you need to be patient, prospects take time to develop."

"Man, **** Gillis. He couldn't turn the scouting department around in 6 months, what a moron."

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

I can't believe how good a pick Nashville had with Arvidsson in the 4th round...

 

[VanJack]

"Guys you need to be patient, prospects take time to develop."

"Man, **** Gillis. He couldn't turn the scouting department around in 6 months, what a moron."

Unless your name is Ehlers and Nylander, either one of which the Canucks could have picked....same draft class and potential ppg players in the NHL right now...sorry, but most posters on this board could have picked a better player than the Canucks did.

 

[PetterssonSimp]

Unless your name is Ehlers and Nylander, either one of which the Canucks could have picked....same draft class and potential ppg players in the NHL right now...sorry, but most posters on this board could have picked a better player than the Canucks did.

It's sad to think that inthe two years the Canucks have drafted in the top 7 that the regular fan could have picked a better draft pick both times.
IMHO I did give Jake the nod mostly one he hopes of a home grown talent from our backyard, but I also liked the potential of a kid who was already 6'2 205 at the time and fast as hell. But I agreed the more skilled players were Ehlers Nylander in that order for me. I also didn't have Larkin on my radar.
But I had Matty T at my number 1 even at 3 admittedly. I love the kids game. He's what I was hoping Jake would be.

 

[VanJack]

Craig Button had Virtanen rated as a second-rounder in 2014; and Brock Boeser as a sure-fire top-10 in 2015....can we just fire our scouting staff and go with Button's TSN picks? Please!