Player Discussion: Downie - positive or negative? And how about in the playoffs ?

[NeedleInTheHay]

Yes, he brings much more good than bad. Which is why I see fans of other teams he played for regretting that he was gone.

Last night, he had good cause to be angry. And it is not one incident, the refs have bent us over all year, and Downie especially. It about time someone showed them the broken stick and told them to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. This turn the other cheek crap all year has not worked.

How did taking a terrible penalty with 3 mins to go in a 1 goal game turn out?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

How did taking a terrible penalty with 3 mins to go in a 1 goal game turn out?

The regular season is meaningless. I could care less that we lost to be honest.

However the Pens need to threaten to go to the media if this continues. It needs to be addressed before the playoffs

 

[BobCole]

The regular season is meaningless. I could care less that we lost to be honest.

However the Pens need to threaten to go to the media if this continues. It needs to be addressed before the playoffs

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Why funny?

In effect they obviously already have with these 'unanimous off the record' comments to DK.

Next step should be the coach and on the record. MJ wouldn't be the first to do so, not even close. Babcock among others are pros at it.

Haha haha. Not.

I fail to see the humor in getting screwed game after game for months. Now is the time to question the refs integrity publicly. Not right before the playoffs. Because there will be a price for doing that.

 

[madinsomniac]

So what you are saying is drawing penalties is a more important skill then scoring goals in hockey? Fascinating.

Downie is the single most persecuted athlete I have seen in any sport. He leads the league in penalty minutes by a mile and I can name about 50 players who do more dirty stuff then him. Yes, he is chippy and gets under people's skin. Yes, he has a well deserved reputation. Even so, for some reason it seems the officials are looking for excuses to ring him up and become suspiciously blind when things are being done to him.

It's ridiculous. DK in his article says none of the 4 officials saw Suter's elbow. Are you kidding me? 4 officials failed to see a blatant elbow on a player who just had the puck. Can somebody tell me what the officials could have possibly been looking at to have missed such an obvious penalty?

JR or Mario needs to bring this to the attention of the league. The problem is the officials and their bias, not Downie.

No, but the NHl doesn't have control of its refs and frankly, its refs dole out penalties in a ridiculous even up manner trying to keep things "fair". A guy like Downie exists outside the system, they hate him because he constantly jaws at them and they have to always watch him cause he is nuts. This leads to what we have seen so far this half season, him getting tossed for no real reason, getting late penalties when usually none are called, and not being able to do what the typical agitator does, that is draw penalties and get guys off of their game.

Suter threw a suspendable hit and got absolutely no call on the ice. the refs didn't even stop play. last game a guy broke Downies stick in half in front of the net with ref eyes on him and got no call... teams are still hacking and slashing Crosby and malkin... If the refs are going to call penalties on Downie for being downie in the playoffs, that is a huge disadvantage.

I like grit, I like goial scoring, I just question if there aren't better options than Downie out there that wont be the liability

 

[Burgs]

Downie, by virtue of his rather insane history, has earned all those iffy calls against him. He will never get the benefit of the doubt, refs hold grudges and often call by reputation. That was one of the risks affiliated with him, and I think we all knew that when he got signed. Still even with all the penalties he's been a net positive. For only 1 million it's hard to find a better combination of grit and skill. I used to really dislike Downie as a player (and I'll likely hate him again once he's no longer a Pen). But I hate the rest of our team not standing up for one another even more. As sad as it is but he brings an element we sadly lack throughout the roster. I just hope he shuts his mouth in the playoffs.

 

[Boltswin]

Yes, he brings much more good than bad. Which is why I see fans of other teams he played for regretting that he was gone

Tampa fan... I think I heard during one of your games (probably one of your national games) that Downie was becoming a fan favorite for you guys, so I was just looking to see what you all thought of him. Most of us (Lightning fans) were very disappointed when we traded Downie away. He is a great guy to have on your team. There are many players who are well-known "agitators" who I would never want on my team. Downie brings more than that. He is a pretty skilled player. It is unfortunate that the refs seem to have it out for the guy. He probably deserves some of it, but he also gets called for things that a lot of other players don't get called for.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

The regular season is meaningless. I could care less that we lost to be honest.

However the Pens need to threaten to go to the media if this continues. It needs to be addressed before the playoffs

I love Downie but I'm worried he'd do the same thing in a playoff game.

 

[WayneSid9987]

The guy has laid out big hits this season and has shown he's willing to stick up for his teammates. All while producing nicely.

We need MORE players like him, not less.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

The guy has laid out big hits this season and has shown he's willing to stick up for his teammates. All while producing nicely.

We need MORE players like him, not less.

This. We all have been saying for years how the Penguins need guys who are fearless, who play with intensity and heart, who don't back down when things get nasty. Downie is all of that and plays a pretty skilled game as well.

Then he takes a bad penalty and people are questioning his worth.

 

[ProgOg]

The bias is a problem.

But: Bortuzzo took a dumb penalty in the last seconds of the 1st/2nd period twice in his last two games, once against Montreal while the game was 1-1, and once against the Wild while it still was a one-goal game. Considering there is probably no ref bias against Bortuzzo, that seems worse to me.

Looking through Downie's penalties, the last time Downie did it in a close/tied game was in a 0-0 game against Colorado, where he got 2 for elbowing in the first. And before this game, he didn't take one penalty in 3 games (and also couldn't draw one). That was actually a good trend. I'd rather see the refs mostly ignore him, than call everything he does and ignore what is done to him.

 

[NewAgeOutlaw]

I saw some videos of Downie from this season on youtube today and it is just so obvious how much bias there is against him.

Penguins-Jets: Byfuglien boards Downie a solid half second after he scores a goal. Downie gets in Byfuglien's face but doesn't physically retaliate. Coincidental minors as I guess Downie got called for the obscure "standing up" penalty. To sum up, in an incident where Byfuglien should have gotten 5 and a game and Downie should have gotten nothing it somehow ends up 4 on 4.

Penguins-Isles (earlier in the year): Isles player intentionally slashes Downie's stick out of his hands. The ref, apparently suffering from a temporary bout of hysterical blindness, misses the slash. Luckily for the ref, he regains his sight a half second later when Downie throws a shoulder-to chest hit in retaliation. 2 minutes for interference. If I recall was given a 10 minute misconduct as well. Keep in mind Downie had no part in creating this incident and was mad about being the victim of an obvious penalty that the ref apparently didn't see even though he saw Downie commit a penalty in the same place a half second later.

This past week: Downie is nearly beheaded by an elbow from Suter. Of course the refs don't see anything wrong with this. During the Islanders game, Downie is slashed and hit late within 30 seconds of game time. Once again the officials suffer a random bout of blindness (must be some kind of epidemic going on) and again they can miraculously see again a split second later as Downie slashes Nelson out of frustration.

I kind of understand why Downie is so nuts. If the refs were pulling this crap on me it would take all of the restraint I have to not try and strangle the refs during the game.

 

[BobCole]

Why funny?

In effect they obviously already have with these 'unanimous off the record' comments to DK.

Next step should be the coach and on the record. MJ wouldn't be the first to do so, not even close. Babcock among others are pros at it.

Haha haha. Not.

I fail to see the humor in getting screwed game after game for months. Now is the time to question the refs integrity publicly. Not right before the playoffs. Because there will be a price for doing that.

I was mostly laughing at the absurd hypothetical scenario of Jim Rutherford storming into Gary Bettman's office and "threatening to go to the media" if the Pens' treatment from the refs continued. Not meaning to be an ass hole, but maybe "threatening to go to the media" wasn't the best choice of words. Your next post basically advocates for the Pens just "going to the media," period, which as you say wouldn't be unprecedented.

Anyhow, it's always a tricky tight rope to balance on when you whine to the media about things like reffing. I agree that double standards are unacceptable and should be addressed, but frankly I'm sure that - more often that not - teams do the *opposite* of the "go to the media" approach. Instead, I'm sure GMs can and do send tape to the league of calls they don't like...either to seek clarification or just to whine about times they were on the short end of the stick.

 

[BobCole]

Also, I agree that Downie is one of those guys that never gets the benefit of the doubt with the refs, but to an extent he/we just need to swallow that that's a byproduct of the way he's played the game historically.

I was watching In the Room tonight and they showed a clip during one game when a ref approaches Sid to talk about Downie. He basically says that Downie has been chirping the refs all game long and that if he doesn't cut it out they'd start throwing him in the box. When that's the way you behave on the ice, the zebras simply never give you the benefit of the doubt. I'd like to see the needle move a little bit on these calls, but I'm not expecting it to because of the above.

 

[systemsgo]

A significant positive. He's the kind of player you hate until he's on your team.

When he was signed, we were "warned" by other teams' fans that he will get called for things that other players won't, and I'm sure management has already considered this. I expect in the playoffs, when things like what Dubinsky or Staal did didn't get calls, Downie's should also be called less, or at least, it will even up what the other team does.

 

[KIRK]

A significant positive. He's the kind of player you hate until he's on your team.

When he was signed, we were "warned" by other teams' fans that he will get called for things that other players won't, and I'm sure management has already considered this. I expect in the playoffs, when things like what Dubinsky or Staal did didn't get calls, Downie's should also be called less, or at least, it will even up what the other team does.

Agree. He's been a plus.

Of course, that doesn't stop me from thinking 'gee, imagine what it would look like if Tocchet didn't control him' when it's Bonehead Downie Day.