Player Discussion: Danny DeKeyser

[TheMule93]

Prashanth Iyer ‏@iyer_prashanth 1h1 hour ago
I'm not sure why we aren't fact-checking statements like this one. DeKeyser's 5v5 P60 last year was 0.68, 92nd out of 196 D



blashill is GOAT

FWIW dekeyser was actually ranked 38th in P/60 (minimum 500min played) in 14-15, which is pretty good. He ranked 25th in total 5v5 points among defenseman too.

Definitely wasn't up there last year though. I see him at 96th overall (minimum 500min) which is about what mr Iyer tweeted

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rat...0&type=individual&sort=ipoints60&sortdir=DESC

Maybe blash was getting his seasons confused

 

[Henkka]

Prashanth Iyer ‏@iyer_prashanth 1h1 hour ago
I'm not sure why we aren't fact-checking statements like this one. DeKeyser's 5v5 P60 last year was 0.68, 92nd out of 196 D



blashill is GOAT

This mr statistical Lyer always points out things that aren't relevant with each other.

DeKeyser's points/60 was proably low, but it was low because of his shut-down job. There's a lot of guys in smaller minutes crerrypicking nice points /min stats against easier opponents and making these stat analyzes just crazy.

When I compare him to Other TOP4 defenceman, WHO ALSO PLAYED AGAINST TOUGH QUALITY OF COMPETITION (when we would proably get a better and REAL comparison, when excluding these 3rd pair flukes) he was 49th best, so kind of "1st pair 2nd guy" -level.

Guys at 5-on-5 close production

Drew Doughty 0.73
Alex Pietrangelo 0.72

DeKeyser 0.66

Roman Josi 0.66
Brent Seabrook 0.65
Jay Bouwmeester 0.64
Rasmus Ristolainen 0.58
Travis Hamonic 0.58
Adam Larsson 0.56
Ryan Suter 0.55
Hampus Lindholm 0.50
Niklas Hjlmarsson 0.45
Kevin Shatternkirk 0.40
Matt Niskanen 0.32
Jacob Trouba 0.21

Lots of good players behind... where are articles against these guys? Or was Blashill just right on what he said?

Quite interesting that Kevin Shattenkirk becomes a paper tiger when looking for 5-on-5 -close production.

DeKeyser went just fine on pressure situations. He is a defensive defenseman, whose job is not create points. His job is to prevent them. Period. He is paid for 5 million of that, and it's just fine and in line of that duty. His value is determined in preventing high-quality scoring chances, and that's data only organization collect by themselves. Or I collect for myself as a statistical fun. Then media throws in this Corsi **** on P/60 **** which doesn't mean anything. DeKeyser prevents by far most of opposite teams Quality scoring chances. There is a value for tha job. Every can't do that. some are better than others. DeKeyser is ultimate best from our team. Stop looking at the point scoring, or I build a scoring system which will show how many points DeKeyser did prevent!

7-8-9 million guys are paid for production. Mr. Lyer, compare them with others, but never with DeKeyser.

Period.

 

[obey86]

This mr statistical Lyer always points out things that aren't relevant with each other.

DeKeyser's points/60 was proably low, but it was low because of his shut-down job. There's a lot of guys in smaller minutes crerrypicking nice points /min stats against easier opponents and making these stat analyzes just crazy.

When I compare him to Other TOP4 defenceman, WHO ALSO PLAYED AGAINST TOUGH QUALITY OF COMPETITION (when we would proably get a better and REAL comparison, when excluding these 3rd pair flukes) he was 49th best, so kind of "1st pair 2nd guy" -level.

Guys at 5-on-5 close production

Drew Doughty 0.73
Alex Pietrangelo 0.72

DeKeyser 0.66

Roman Josi 0.66
Brent Seabrook 0.65
Jay Bouwmeester 0.64
Rasmus Ristolainen 0.58
Travis Hamonic 0.58
Adam Larsson 0.56
Ryan Suter 0.55
Hampus Lindholm 0.50
Niklas Hjlmarsson 0.45
Kevin Shatternkirk 0.40
Matt Niskanen 0.32
Jacob Trouba 0.21

Quite interesting that Kevin Shattenkirk becomes a paper tiger when looking for 5-on-5 -close production.

DeKeyser went just fine on pressure situations. He is a defensive defenseman, whose job is not create points. His jopb is to prevent them. He is paid for 5 million of that, and it's just fine and in line.

7-8-9 million guys are paid for production. Mr. Lyer, compare them with others, but never with DeKeyser.

Period.

You just added a bunch of conditions he didn't mention to his statement.

It's certainly possible he just got his years mixed up, but you're trying to prove an easily provable false statement true by adding a whole bunch of disclaimers.

DeKeyser is paid 5 million/year to be a good player....not be completely terrible on one end of the ice.

And 49th out of how many in your reduced sample size? lol

 

[Henkka]

You just added a bunch of conditions he didn't mention to his statement.

It's certainly possible he just got his years mixed up, but you're trying to prove an easily provable false statement true by adding a whole bunch of disclaimers.

DeKeyser is paid 5 million/year to be a good player....not be completely terrible on one end of the ice.

And 49th out of how many in your reduced sample size? lol

89 players, so better part of TOP4 defencemen.

So if there's a base salary for a defenceman, if you are World Class in the other end of the ice, you earn 4 million, if you are world class on the opposite end, you earn another 4 million = 8 million. Congratulations! you are Nicklas Liström, Shea Weber, Victor Hedman and so on.

But when you are Dan DeKeyser, you earn 4M of that World Class defence and 1 M of poor offence. Nothing to see in here. He is a 5 milloin player.

If you are Mike Green, you get 4M of your great World Class production (Green is 20th best in all situations P/60, which is very PP-weighted) and you get 2M of your poor defensive play = you are a 6 milllion player. Nothing to see either in here. Just market values.

 

[obey86]

89 players, so better part of TOP4 defencemen.

So he's not even in the top 50% in your reduced sample size of just top 4 defensemen.

His ranking actually went down compared to where he was in the original sample size with all defenders.

Not close to the "top percentile" even after you finagled the numbers. He's in the bottom half...not the top percentile.

 

[Frk It]

This mr statistical Lyer always points out things that aren't relevant with each other.

DeKeyser's points/60 was proably low, but it was low because of his shut-down job. There's a lot of guys in smaller minutes crerrypicking nice points /min stats against easier opponents and making these stat analyzes just crazy.

When I compare him to Other TOP4 defenceman, WHO ALSO PLAYED AGAINST TOUGH QUALITY OF COMPETITION (when we would proably get a better and REAL comparison, when excluding these 3rd pair flukes) he was 49th best, so kind of "1st pair 2nd guy" -level.

Guys at 5-on-5 close production

Drew Doughty 0.73
Alex Pietrangelo 0.72

DeKeyser 0.66

Roman Josi 0.66
Brent Seabrook 0.65
Jay Bouwmeester 0.64
Rasmus Ristolainen 0.58
Travis Hamonic 0.58
Adam Larsson 0.56
Ryan Suter 0.55
Hampus Lindholm 0.50
Niklas Hjlmarsson 0.45
Kevin Shatternkirk 0.40
Matt Niskanen 0.32
Jacob Trouba 0.21

Lots of good players behind... where are articles against these guys? Or was Blashill just right on what he said?

Quite interesting that Kevin Shattenkirk becomes a paper tiger when looking for 5-on-5 -close production.

DeKeyser went just fine on pressure situations. He is a defensive defenseman, whose job is not create points. His job is to prevent them. Period. He is paid for 5 million of that, and it's just fine and in line of that duty. His value is determined in preventing high-quality scoring chances, and that's data only organization collect by themselves. Or I collect for myself as a statistical fun. Then media throws in this Corsi **** on P/60 **** which doesn't mean anything. DeKeyser prevents by far most of opposite teams Quality scoring chances. There is a value for tha job. Every can't do that. some are better than others. DeKeyser is ultimate best from our team. Stop looking at the point scoring, or I build a scoring system which will show how many points DeKeyser did prevent!

7-8-9 million guys are paid for production. Mr. Lyer, compare them with others, but never with DeKeyser.

Period.

"Close production" = ?????

 

[avssuc]

So he's not even in the top 50% in your reduced sample size of just top 4 defensemen.

His ranking actually went down compared to where he was in the original sample size with all defenders.

Not close to the "top percentile" even after you finagled the numbers. He's in the bottom half...not the top percentile.

I wonder what all those contracts look like. I'm sure they all make far more than Dekeyser.

 

[Reddwit]

I wonder what all those contracts look like. I'm sure they all make far more than Dekeyser.

Dekeyser literally - factually - makes more than 90% of defenseman in the NHL, so I can't imagine its all of them. And it sure as hell isn't far more than a 20 point defenseman who makes $5M.

Dekeyser is our Coburn.

 

[avssuc]

Dekeyser literally - factually - makes more than 90% of defenseman in the NHL, so I can't imagine its all of them. And it sure as hell isn't far more than a 20 point defenseman who makes $5M.

Dekeyser is our Coburn.

I just don't know why a GM would give this guy crazy $$$ and term. Dude isn't too far removed from Quincey, yet DeKeyser makes 75% more than what the Devils gave Q, and Danny has an additional 4 years of suck tacked on. People can claim upside all they like, but can they list the indicators?

 

[HIFE]

Look up the thread from this summer, there was very little criticism. We seemed to accept the contract as a fact of life. Some did feel he was overpaid by 1/2 or 1 mil. That said, I don't think anyone expected him to be this out of place continuing in a leadership role. Green severely props up DeKeyser's play- under pressure he's falling apart like a wet tissue.

 

[Claypool]

Look up the thread from this summer, there was very little criticism. We seemed to accept the contract as a fact of life. Some did feel he was overpaid by 1/2 or 1 mil. That said, I don't think anyone expected him to be this out of place continuing in a leadership role. Green severely props up DeKeyser's play- under pressure he's falling apart like a wet tissue.

It's hard to evaluate any individual player this season when all of them are bad. Green might be the only player meeting expectations. Maybe Mantha now, too.

 

[HIFE]

It's hard to evaluate any individual player this season when all of them are bad. Green might be the only player meeting expectations. Maybe Mantha now, too.

True. I did want to express something like this in my statement. The forwards and D are both getting worked over it's a ****-storm of bad hockey. For the record I'm still supportive of DDK, I don't see why he'd be dumped. To save 1 or 2 million? Or are others proposing to move him for future assets? He's great as a 2nd pairing, always reminds me of a slightly lesser Petry.

 

[Reddwit]

Look up the thread from this summer, there was very little criticism. We seemed to accept the contract as a fact of life. Some did feel he was overpaid by 1/2 or 1 mil. That said, I don't think anyone expected him to be this out of place continuing in a leadership role. Green severely props up DeKeyser's play- under pressure he's falling apart like a wet tissue.

For me personally, I was defensive of the Dekeyser contract because (1) the criticism was very advanced stats-based, and I just haven't bought into that yet (the same stat system that says Smith and Tatar are elite possession players), and (2) he was great in all seasons prior, sans last season, so you like to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. At least I do.

But even then, I wasn't happy that he was given $5M. I was hoping $4.5M-ish would be his max with $4M-ish being his true value.

Well, turns out, when the reigns are in his hands, $3.5M-ish is his real value. And you hope somebody that is being paid a couple million per year to, at the very least, rubber-stamp these contracts, can do a bit better than being off on a guy's worth by the value of a rookie's max salary.

And - if we're being honest - every bad contract on this team is being pissed on hard because there are so damn many of them that every contract is compounded by the perception of the roster's contracts as a whole.

 

[Henkka]

It's hard to evaluate any individual player this season when all of them are bad. Green might be the only player meeting expectations. Maybe Mantha now, too.

It's easy to evaluate players when you track your own scoring chance data or some data almost from every game.

Like I have done. Or like BinCookin has done. And I have same stats also from other teams, for comparison.

 

[Lampedampe]

DD is not really the problem, he is a really good 3#D that will do excellent if he is put in the role he's supposed to be in. Put him on the 1st pairing against the other team's best and he'll look garbage.

The problem is the lack of talent on our D. If we had a true 1#D our D would look really good actually, because then everyone would play where they are supposed to play. Green would slot perfectly as 2#D, dekeyser as 3#D and then someone like sproul/russo/ XO as 4#D.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

I'm a big DeKeyser fan, but he's had a rough year.

Definitely out of place on the top pairing. But it's not like we have anyone else to put there.

 

[Henkka]

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/danny-dekeysers-hole-in-one

DeKeyser had a hole-in-one in golf yesterday.

It reminded me of this.



Even Nik Lidström wasn't ever able to do that.

 

[Red Stanley]

I'd like to see DK shoot a bit more just to figure out if those wicked wristers he's had from the circle area were flukes.

 

[vladdy16]

It's easy to evaluate players when you track your own scoring chance data or some data almost from every game.

Like I have done. Or like BinCookin has done. And I have same stats also from other teams, for comparison.

I mean... I think there's a pretty solid case to be made that Dekeyser had a nightmare season last year, even when/especially when taking into account his role as a defensive defensemen.

Scoring chances is not a primary metric. Not only are they contextual and subjective, but quantification doesn't really lead you anywhere. Knowing when to pull the chute and surrender a scoring chance is part of being a competent defensemen. It's the ones that go in that matter, and whether it was incompetence, exhaustion, bad luck or a combination, Dekeyser was fishing out a lot pucks last year.

 

[avssuc]

I haven't seen any of the preseason, so how would you guys say he's looked?

I think if he repeats last year, he's officially another dreg.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I haven't seen any of the preseason, so how would you guys say he's looked?

I think if he repeats last year, he's officially another dreg.

Same or worse than last year... I think we have a big problem on our hands here.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

I haven't seen any of the preseason, so how would you guys say he's looked?

I think if he repeats last year, he's officially another dreg.

 

[avssuc]

I think that might be vintage stuff when it's all said and done. What a lazy/cowardly play. Hopefully that's preseason fluff.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It looks bad but it's also Matthews and Nylander and it's pre-season.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

It looks bad but it's also Matthews and Nylander and it's pre-season.

Yeah Matthews and nylander didn’t make a play there. That’s all on the wings