Proposal: Pittsburgh - Utah

[SEALBound]

Ryan Graves

for

Alex Kerfoot

Reasoning: Penguins need a better, more offensive-minded 3C in order to shift Eller to 4C. Utah has zero signed dmen for next year - currently they have 2 UFAs and 3 RFAs. Cooley and Geekie will likely be on the team next year as well and can take over center positions. They have plenty of cap space to accommodate the extra $1mil in cap.

Simple hockey trade that I think can benefit both sides.

Click to read more...

 

[Mrfenn92]

Think the extra years on graves deal causes Utah to say no

 

[Empoleon8771]

I know Graves didn't have a great year this year, but I'm a bit uncomfortable moving him right now with the state of the Penguins LD depth.

They have Pettersson, who's great but a UFA after next year, and then a bunch of crap. Their #2 LD would be Joseph and their #3 LD would be Ludvig if they moved on from Graves.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

I know Graves didn't have a great year this year, but I'm a bit uncomfortable moving him right now with the state of the Penguins LD depth.

They have Pettersson, who's great but a UFA after next year, and then a bunch of crap. Their #2 LD would be Joseph and their #3 LD would be Ludvig if they moved on from Graves.

Joseph is already LD2 and I think Shea would be LD3. Ludvig needs more seasoning.

edit-love the trade idea as a Pens fan which may mean its unfair to them Outlaws.

 

[Brodeur]

Just pointing out that Graves has a 12 team no trade list, so he probably has decent control about his destination if he and his agent mapped it out.

But on the surface I think this sort of swap could make sense if Utah couldn't land somebody similar in free agency.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Serious question, do you have the impression that Graves has trade value? Yes Utah has plenty of cap but as of now, Graves is on an objectively bad contract, they're not just going to take him without Pitt paying them for it

 

[Brodeur]

Serious question, do you have the impression that Graves has trade value? Yes Utah has plenty of cap but as of now, Graves is on an objectively bad contract, they're not just going to take him without Pitt paying them for it

It is frontloaded to a degree. Assuming the trade was done after next year's signing bonus was paid, Graves would be due 19.25 million for the next five seasons. What would a comparable UFA fetch this offseason? We'll see if they go wild with the a new owner, but Utah might have to pay something similar to sign somebody like Nikita Zadorov.

I think the Graves' no trade clause is a hurdle.

 

[Jared Dunn]

It is frontloaded to a degree. Assuming the trade was done after next year's signing bonus was paid, Graves would be due 19.25 million for the next five seasons. What would a comparable UFA fetch this offseason? We'll see if they go wild with the a new owner, but Utah might have to pay something similar to sign somebody like Nikita Zadorov.

I think the Graves' no trade clause is a hurdle.

I just think we've seen how valuable cap space is in the past few years especially, I just don't see anybody willing to take on Graves without being paid for it. The contract alreadt raised some eyebrows when it was signed (even though I'm sure Pitt wasn't the only team offering around there) and is off to a horrid start

If I'm Utah I'd rather just throw huge money at someone like Skjei who is a little more of a sure thing. The thing with Utah too is they have SO much cap space that they can probably afford to overpay the hell out of guys on 2-4 year terms and not tie their hands with long deals

 

[Empoleon8771]

I just think we've seen how valuable cap space is in the past few years especially, I just don't see anybody willing to take on Graves without being paid for it.

The cap is going to be skyrocketing in the next few years now that the COVID debts are paid off, so I don't really see how cap considerations for 2020 are relevant going forward.

It is frontloaded to a degree. Assuming the trade was done after next year's signing bonus was paid, Graves would be due 19.25 million for the next five seasons. What would a comparable UFA fetch this offseason? We'll see if they go wild with the a new owner, but Utah might have to pay something similar to sign somebody like Nikita Zadorov.

I think the Graves' no trade clause is a hurdle.

Yeah this is exactly why I think people exaggerate "negative value" contracts on this site. It's hard to justify the idea that a team would have to pay to get out of a deal when other teams are handing out the same kind of deals for the same kind of players when they get the chance in free agency.

Hell, look at the kind of contracts Gudbranson keeps getting as obvious proof of that.

Joseph is already LD2 and I think Shea would be LD3. Ludvig needs more seasoning.

edit-love the trade idea as a Pens fan which may mean its unfair to them Outlaws.

POJ sucks and Shea is an AHL defensemen.

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

Graves is a decent enough player but that contract may look grim in a few years. I'd say the Yotes will want to make a splash with the new fans so maybe there are better options. Plus Dubas signed Graves so unlikely to move him so fast.

 

[gdsmack267]

Graves stinks. Dubas did great work to dump bad contracts in the EK deal and then immediately wasted the cap space on Graves

 

[Gurglesons]

Why would Utah trade Kerfoot? He's been solid for them and their LHD side isn't exactly begging for a 3rd pairing guy making 4 mil.

 

[SEALBound]

Why would Utah trade Kerfoot? He's been solid for them and their LHD side isn't exactly begging for a 3rd pairing guy making 4 mil.

Because they have Cooley, Geekie, McBain, Hayton, and Bjugstad, so they are pretty strong down the middle. They have 5 dmen on the roster, two of which are UFAs. They will need to get to the cap floor and sign dmen. Seemed like a classic trade for a need from a position of strength.

 

[Brodeur]

Why would Utah trade Kerfoot? He's been solid for them and their LHD side isn't exactly begging for a 3rd pairing guy making 4 mil.

OP's premise is that Kerfoot would get pushed out by Conor Geekie. But I think Kerfoot's term works out so that Geekie could get some development time in the AHL.

I do think Arizona would be in the market for a LHD D to eat up PK1 minutes though. I'd imagine they'll look to the free agent pool first. Although I wonder if there's a natural trade fit between Arizona Utah(8 picks in rounds 2-4) and Vegas (no picks in rounds 2-4). Vegas might need to jettison a D to free up cap space and open up a roster spot for Kaedan Korczak. Vegas owners might like to recoup a pick or two while hosting the draft.

Time on ice breakdown from last year:

Moser (17:20 EV - 0:49 PP - 2:25 SH) - Durzi (18:13 EV - 3:16 PP - 1:15 SH)
Valimaki (17:17 EV - 1:05 PP - 0:43 SH) - Kesselring (15:45 EV - 0:04 PP - 0:16 SH)
Dermott (14:39 EV - 0:02 PP - 2:36 SH) - Brown (12:41 EV - 0:01 PP - 2:04 SH)
Kolyachonok (12:28 EV - 0:00 PP - 0:00 SH) - Soderstrom (15:11 EV - 0:00 PP - 0:00 SH)

traded: Dumba (16:54 EV - 0:16 PP - 2:54 SH) - Stecher (16:09 EV - 0:03 PP - 2:14 SH)

Dermott and Brown are UFAs. I'm probably not going out on a limb that they'll look to replace them. An internal option like Kolyachonok doesn't profile like a PKer. If it were me I'd be going after a LD for sure. Their PK was 76.5% this year so that seems like a good spot to try to improve.

 

[Gurglesons]

Because they have Cooley, Geekie, McBain, Hayton, and Bjugstad, so they are pretty strong down the middle. They have 5 dmen on the roster, two of which are UFAs. They will need to get to the cap floor and sign dmen. Seemed like a classic trade for a need from a position of strength.

I imagine Utah has much more interest in keeping Kerfoot who scored 40+ pts at 3.5 million dollars with low term left on his deal versus trading him for a salary dump in Graves.

 

[Brodeur]

I blanked on Hayton. Wouldn't be shocking if somebody in their top 9 was moved. But maybe it's Hayton who'd be the odd man out?

Keller-Bjugstad-Schmaltz
Crouse-Cooley-Guenther
Maccelli-Kerfoot-Doan
Carcone-McBain-?

RFA: Hayton
UFA: O'Brien

And not to sound like a broken record, but Graves has a partial no trade list, so no guarantees that he wouldn't block a move.

 

[MVP Zacha]

It still just seems weird to see Utah in trade proposals. Carry on.

 

[Nakawick]

I think Graves will get a chance to bounce back next year. Can’t move Graves without a replacement coming in.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Graves is a LHD who isn't better than Valimaki, Moser, or Durzi.

Kolyachanok, Simashev and Soderstrom will potentially come up and play significant time next year and are all left handed D.

Now, I like Graves as a player. He's a big bruising D who can clear the net. His defense is okay. That's something we need.

But I don't see his contract being worth, and I don't see him fitting into Arizona's line up.

We have absolutely no center depth, so I would much rather keep Kerfoot who is also a pretty good PKer and can play up or down the line up and provide much needed depth at times. I'd also just prefer to upgrade on him but he's more valuable to us than Graves would be for sure.

 

[Kaizen]

Graves is a LHD who isn't better than Valimaki, Moser, or Durzi.

Kolyachanok, Simashev and Soderstrom will potentially come up and play significant time next year and are all left handed D.

Now, I like Graves as a player. He's a big bruising D who can clear the net. His defense is okay. That's something we need.

But I don't see his contract being worth, and I don't see him fitting into Arizona's line up.

We have absolutely no center depth, so I would much rather keep Kerfoot who is also a pretty good PKer and can play up or down the line up and provide much needed depth at times. I'd also just prefer to upgrade on him but he's more valuable to us than Graves would be for sure.

Durzi and Soderstrom are righties. Also Simashev is under KHL contract this upcoming season (barring a UT buyout) so he's not expected to cross the pond for at least another full season.

 

[gdsmack267]

I think Graves will get a chance to bounce back next year. Can’t move Graves without a replacement coming in.

I mean the replacement is any 7th D man in the league. Not hard to find. The AHL kids they called up showed how replaceable he is.

 

[Dead Coyote]

Durzi and Soderstrom are righties. Also Simashev is under KHL contract this upcoming season (barring a UT buyout) so he's not expected to cross the pond for at least another full season.

Good point! Always thought they were lefties for some reason. Unfortunately I don't think that changes much for Graves. Even if we do have to wait another season for Simashev, that's a lot better than getting him.

 

[Kaizen]

Good point! Always thought they were lefties for some reason. Unfortunately I don't think that changes much for Graves. Even if we do have to wait another season for Simashev, that's a lot better than getting him.

Agreed - I don't see that deal for Graves coming together.
Also Durzi did play the left side in LA back in the day.

 

[Victor Z]

POJ sucks and Shea is an AHL defensemen.

1000% accurate.

The Pens need to find a REAL #1 LD as their TOP priority this offseason, and worry about who 3C is going to be or which 4th line scrubs Mike Sullivan is going to obsess on only after the most massive problem the team has is fixed. If it even can be fixed.

Petts is an OK #2LD but he's not Rod Langway 2.0; he just stands out as a supposed defensive "stalwart" on this team because the competition is non-existent. Nobody else on the blue line plays much defense at all. How sad is it that some mundane rookie with 6 weeks of NHL experience (St. Ivany) might be the Pens' 2nd best defensive defenseman?

As far as #1 LD: even at his worst, Graves is easily better than POJ but if he's your #1 LD you've got big problems. Not nearly as big a problem as having a coach who is so hilariously ignorant that he thinks POJ is a #1 LD, though.

Kyle Dubious needs to at least try to swing a trade, but it's unlikely that another team is going to part with anyone who even resembles a #1 LD, and they certainly aren't going to do it for a package of Penguin garbage like Reilly Smith + POJ + ????

So realistically, all we can do is pray that Graves plays better this year, not that he was all THAT bad this year except according to the haters and other half-wits, though he certainly wasn't good.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

1000% accurate.

The Pens need to find a REAL #1 LD as their TOP priority this offseason, and worry about who 3C is going to be or which 4th line scrubs Mike Sullivan is going to obsess on only after the most massive problem the team has is fixed. If it even can be fixed.

Petts is an OK #2LD but he's not Rod Langway 2.0; he just stands out as a supposed defensive "stalwart" on this team because the competition is non-existent. Nobody else on the blue line plays much defense at all. How sad is it that some mundane rookie with 6 weeks of NHL experience (St. Ivany) might be the Pens' 2nd best defensive defenseman?

As far as #1 LD: even at his worst, Graves is easily better than POJ but if he's your #1 LD you've got big problems. Not nearly as big a problem as having a coach who is so hilariously ignorant that he thinks POJ is a #1 LD, though.

Kyle Dubious needs to at least try to swing a trade, but it's unlikely that another team is going to part with anyone who even resembles a #1 LD, and they certainly aren't going to do it for a package of Penguin garbage like Reilly Smith + POJ + ????

So realistically, all we can do is pray that Graves plays better this year, not that he was all THAT bad this year except according to the haters and other half-wits, though he certainly wasn't good.

"Kyle Dubious".