Pittsburgh needs a new identity

[Shady Machine]

Toews strikes me as the type of guy who would take a discount. Kane on the other hand... maybe not. Based on things I've heard and read, my money is on him getting paid.

I don't think that's going to fly. Kane shouldn't really make more than Toews. If he wants to make substantially more, he would have to leave Chicago. That said, I don't see either being under 8.5

 

[dvonfunk]

I don't think it negates it personally. Boston proved that against us. With the cap and the way the game's played anymore we are, in a "good problem to have" kind of way, at a bit of a disadvantage. Teams that are well-balanced that have 9-10 forwards that can do a little bit of everything (Boston, LA, St. Louis, obviously the Hawks) seem to be the best contenders IMO.

I think you're missing the point. Or at least the point I was trying to convey with my original post. But at the same time, you're kind of making my point for me. Those teams you speak of (Boston, LA, St. Louis, Chicago) all of those teams have something in common. They're all well-coached teams with a very defined system of play. They know who they are, and how they want to play. Their opponents know who they are, and how they want to play. There's structure in what they do from game to game. Coincidentally, it just so happens they're all very solid defensive teams with great goaltending, in other words, the polar opposite of us.

What I'm ultimately trying to say, is that talent doesn't always win out in the end. We can argue whether Boston's roster was more "talented" than ours until the cows come home, but the fact of the matter is their system of play is much more conducive to playoff success. We had the talent to beat that Boston team, we just didn't have the coaching to do it. We were every bit of out-coached as we were outplayed, in that series. Coaching matters, and until a change is made in Pitt, this team won't ever realize its full potential.

 

[King of the Fall]

I often find myself watching highlights from the 08 run to the finals. Yeah, we lost in 6 but that team was well constructed. Talented and balanced top two lines with a rough physical bottom 6, with guys who knew how to play that way. Look at that team and tell me they weren't built for playoff hockey. Roberts, Laraque, Ruuttu, Malone, Orpik(in his prime then) Talbot, Hall. Then add in Malkin and Sid with Hossa. And sykora played well that whole post season. That is a playoff team.

 

[#66]

I often find myself watching highlights from the 08 run to the finals. Yeah, we lost in 6 but that team was well constructed. Talented and balanced top two lines with a rough physical bottom 6, with guys who knew how to play that way. Look at that team and tell me they weren't built for playoff hockey. Roberts, Laraque, Ruuttu, Malone, Orpik(in his prime then) Talbot, Hall. Then add in Malkin and Sid with Hossa. And sykora played well that whole post season. That is a playoff team.

I always thought that was the better team. Its to bad they weren't allowed to forecheck.

 

[hiptanaka]

I often find myself watching highlights from the 08 run to the finals. Yeah, we lost in 6 but that team was well constructed. Talented and balanced top two lines with a rough physical bottom 6, with guys who knew how to play that way. Look at that team and tell me they weren't built for playoff hockey. Roberts, Laraque, Ruuttu, Malone, Orpik(in his prime then) Talbot, Hall. Then add in Malkin and Sid with Hossa. And sykora played well that whole post season. That is a playoff team.

It was a dominant team with a different coaching/organizational mentality and philosophy. Very structured, disciplined, methodical. That was the season where, no matter how many goals we were down, you just knew the team was gonna rally and win. Fleury also looked straight-up elite back then and was posting ridiculous numbers.

Just compare the Flyers series in '08 and '09. We destroyed them in 5 games in '08, and while we also won in '09, it was far closer and was not nearly the same dominant performance. Therrien didn't get his name on the cup when we won, but his fingerprints were all over the Pens' success that year.

One of my favorites from that post-season:

 

[Speed Kills]

Love your post and I agree with everything you said. When Mario played he realized the importance of having an enforcer on his team. But, like you said one like Godard one that has a nastiness to his game. Like you, I never forgot when Godard went after Hartnell one year. He put an end to all his bs on the ice.

In the weekend series with Philly I saw Rinaldo take a run at Malkin. If this would had happened two years ago you would have seen Asham, Rupp, or Godard handle that. Not anymore and I believe the players can police themselves better than anyone else. I feel when healthy we can make a pretty good run with a good coach (like tochett ). But, not if one of our star players go down because of cheap shot.

 

[JTG]

I personally think this team, more than any team since the Pens have been regular playoff participants, has the potential to get bounced early by absolutely anyone. If that occurs, I can see mass shake ups happening. Had Bylsma won gold, he probably would be safe, but the fact the same old song and dance occurred again, even with a hand picked Bylsma team...that's pretty telling that it's not the players. The fact that Shero has hired a guy of Jacques Martin's ilk is also something that I'd be looking at. You don't do that just because, especially without an assistant coach leaving for another job.

I think Ray sees what's happening. If Fleury melts down, I could see him traded. If Bylsma gets out coached, I could see him on the curb. I have a gut feeling that the ownership group isn't playing around anymore. Bylsma's luster has worn off. It's very clear that the message he preached when he got here, and the Cup win that followed, was just a right place at the right time deal. It was a team that was an 8 cylinder engine, but for so long under MT was running on 4, that when someone let the team breath, it was better.

Something else that I have noted, when DB got here, he said that he didn't full implement his system. He brought in some folds, but it was what the guys were used to under MT for the most part. It worked. What he has done since hasn't.

 

[Your Boy Troy]

It was a dominant team with a different coaching/organizational mentality and philosophy. Very structured, disciplined, methodical. That was the season where, no matter how many goals we were down, you just knew the team was gonna rally and win. Fleury also looked straight-up elite back then and was posting ridiculous numbers.

Just compare the Flyers series in '08 and '09. We destroyed them in 5 games in '08, and while we also won in '09, it was far closer and was not nearly the same dominant performance. Therrien didn't get his name on the cup when we won, but his fingerprints were all over the Pens' success that year.

One of my favorites from that post-season:

Ah, the good old days... When Pittsburgh played with passion. Pittsburgh misses a Ryan Malone type power-forward. His size, his ability to finish his checks and drive to the net. He was amazing in front of the net. He was a great leader who always stuck up for his teammates. He wasn't the greatest at dropping the gloves, but he never backed down from any player. The biggest mistake from Ray Shero was not re-signing.

 

[billybudd]

I personally think this team, more than any team since the Pens have been regular playoff participants, has the potential to get bounced early by absolutely anyone.

Yeah, that's my sense as well. I can't recall being as pessimistic about the potential outcomes of any Penguins playoff team, well, ever.

Unless Washington squeaks in and we play them, my gut says we're out in 5 max.

 

[King of the Fall]

I completely forgot Gill was on our team that season. I thought we got him at the 09 deadline