Pittsburgh Media Thread: Doctor Rossi will see you now

[IcedCapp]

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[Empoleon8771]

I'd rather get robbed and lose $25 than pay $25 for DK's website.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I don't "wipe properly".

Edit: I'm oh so glad this is my 10,000th post.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Perron did outproduce Kunitz.

The numbers Kunitz put up before and after Perron left have no bearing on their comparison. None. Perron outproduced him while he was here despite being logjammed and forced to bounce around the line-up and play on his wrong side.

What part of that are you not getting?

Sure they do he's still playing on the same team with the same players.

Kunitz last year stunk
Kunitz this year stinks.
Perron produced less than both of the things that we ALL agree stink.
In the time both were here Perron scored 39 points (30 points in his last 82) and Kunitz (the worst he ever played here) scored 33 yinz are making my point for me.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I don't "wipe properly".

Edit: I'm oh so glad this is my 10,000th post.

Interesting... did you know that poor wiping is the cause of many people's odor problems?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Sure they do he's still playing on the same team with the same players.

Kunitz last year stunk
Kunitz this year stinks.
Perron produced less than both of the things that we ALL agree stink.
In the time both were here Perron scored 39 points (30 points in his last 82) and Kunitz (the worst he ever played here) scored 33 yinz are making my point for me.

So, what you're saying is Perron did in fact out-produce Kunitz while being asked to completely change his game, and playing all up and down the lineup while Kunitz played the vast majority of his time on Sid's LW and getting substantial top PP time?

Oh, alright.

 

[SEALBound]

I'd rather get robbed and lose $25 than pay $25 for DK's website.

This is a fair statement.

 

[MrWilson*]

Sure they do he's still playing on the same team with the same players.

Kunitz last year stunk
Kunitz this year stinks.
Perron produced less than both of the things that we ALL agree stink.
In the time both were here Perron scored 39 points (30 points in his last 82) and Kunitz (the worst he ever played here) scored 33 yinz are making my point for me.

There is no point--other than some folks just can't accept that Kunitz is here for the rest of this season and might even be here for next season.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Sure they do he's still playing on the same team with the same players.

But Perron isn't. Which is why it's stupid.

If you're comparing two teammates head-to-head to determine who was the better candidate for a 1st line role over that period, you use the time they were both on the team to minimize variables. You don't use the time before Kunitz's play fell off a cliff when Perron wasn't even in Pittsburgh, or time after Perron was dealt.

In the time both were here Perron scored 39 points (30 points in his last 82) and Kunitz (the worst he ever played here) scored 33 yinz are making my point for me.

Do you even remember what we're talking about?

The whole discussion was about young players being wasted due to the Pens preference for lesser old vets to provide context for Plotnikov's scratches, with Despres/Lovejoy, Perron/Kunitz, and Farnham being offered up as examples.

Exactly how are you interpreting Perron outproducing Kunitz over their shared time here despite less opportunity, still never getting a shot at that #1LW role, and then being shipped out only to produce elsewhere as "making your point for you"?

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

So, what you're saying is Perron did in fact out-produce Kunitz while being asked to completely change his game, and playing all up and down the lineup while Kunitz played the vast majority of his time on Sid's LW and getting substantial top PP time?

Oh, alright.

No what im clearly saying is Kuntz stinks.

And Perron could barely outproduce the worst Kunitz could offer.

He also could NOT out produce either of Kunitz's worst 2 years.

David Perron failed here. Most of that failure is twofold. He wasn't a good fit and he played like a pile of *******.

The funny part is, im a Perron fan. I was elated when we traded for him but he made his own bed here.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

It's just not that black and white. There are other variables involved with Perron's play that don't correlate to Kunitz's.

Saying Perron played like **** without taking everything into account falls in line with the type of thinking by this front office when they said "Despres is inconsistent and just a fighter, nothing more," because he played on the bottom pairing, was physical, and could fight. And then the guy went on to play extremely well, getting top pairing minutes on a Western juggernaut that was only eliminated by the eventual Cup champs.

 

[UnderratedBrooks44]

I'd rather get robbed and lose $25 than pay $25 for DK's website.

You could argue that the person robbing you is doing it out of necessity and the unfair aspects of society. If you give it to DK you basically are just paying for information that's readily available in dozens of other places and arguably more insightful, so the expenditure is much less purposeful.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I'll never understand how/why people pay for a subscription to DK's site. All the guy and his cronies do is verbally ******* the organization, and spew agenda-driven smear campaign ******** for guys on the way out or out of favor.

If you want that, read the comments on the Pens' facebook posts or go to the Pens subreddit. It's all the same garbage, but people respect idiots like DK, Yohe, etc. for some reason.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

But Perron isn't. Which is why it's stupid.

If you're comparing two teammates head-to-head to determine who was the better candidate for a 1st line role over that period, you use the time they were both on the team to minimize variables. You don't use the time before Kunitz's play fell off a cliff when Perron wasn't even in Pittsburgh, or time after Perron was dealt.



Do you even remember what we're talking about?

The whole discussion was about young players being wasted due to the Pens preference for lesser old vets to provide context for Plotnikov's scratches, with Despres/Lovejoy, Perron/Kunitz, and Farnham being offered up as examples.

Exactly how are you interpreting Perron outproducing Kunitz over their shared time here despite less opportunity, still never getting a shot at that #1LW role, and then being shipped out only to produce elsewhere as "making your point for you"?

1. That's not what im doing. I could care less who played 1st line LW because neither deserved to. That's my point. They were both bad.

2. What were discussing was that the Pens have an illustrious history of blackballing young players. Which isn't true, at least not the current regime.

Despres was traded for Lovejoy. It was a horrible decision but not because they hated Despres or young talent. They, for some reason, really wanted them some Ben Lovejoy and they paid a high price to get it.

Perron wasn't blackballed and misused into poor production, he didn't play well on a team that he was a poor fit on in the first place. If he would have at least held up his end he would still be a top 6 Penguin winger despite being a less than ideal fit style wise.

They cut Farnham because he isn't very good. Every player playing at that time including Fehr-Cullen-Plotz 4th line was better.

The fact that Perron barely out produced the guy every single person would like to shoot into the sun. And could not out produce either of his last two season in total proves that. Perron could have been banished to the 3rd line with Sutter, Bonino or Fehr centering him and he should have out produced Corpsitz.

 

[Shady Machine]

So you are saying the organization made a bad call prioritizing Kunitz over Perron?

 

[Shady Machine]

I'll never understand how/why people pay for a subscription to DK's site. All the guy and his cronies do is verbally ******* the organization, and spew agenda-driven smear campaign ******** for guys on the way out or out of favor.

If you want that, read the comments on the Pens' facebook posts or go to the Pens subreddit. It's all the same garbage, but people respect idiots like DK, Yohe, etc. for some reason.

To be fair, his site does get a lot more direct interviews with JR and his quotes are always interesting. I wouldn't pay for those quotes, but JR seems to be increasingly going to those guys with direct interviews over the Trib and Gazette.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

1. That's not what im doing. I could care less who played 1st line LW because neither deserved to. That's my point. They were both bad.

You do realize that somebody has to play there, and the org's choice proves their preference?

2. What were discussing was that the Pens have an illustrious history of blackballing young players. Which isn't true, at least not the current regime.

Despres was traded for Lovejoy. It was a horrible decision but not because they hated Despres or young talent. They, for some reason, really wanted them some Ben Lovejoy and they paid a high price to get it.

They did and do blackball young players (check the definition I provided earlier).

Despres was regularly criticized by the org, often being held accountable for Scuderi's mistakes, and any successes he had were held up as the result of Scuderi's tutelage. Did you miss all of that nonsense or are you being deliberately obtuse?

Further, the fact that they prioritized a clearly lesser vet in Lovejoy over Despres is the most direct illustration. This team regularly fails to see what it has in young talent, and often chooses worse vets to play in their place.

Perron wasn't blackballed and misused into poor production, he didn't play well on a team that he was a poor fit on in the first place. If he would have at least held up his end he would still be a top 6 Penguin winger despite being a less than ideal fit style wise.

You're ignoring everything that was said earlier about role and wing side, and the Hornqvist analogy about how usage affects effectiveness.

They cut Farnham because he isn't very good. Every player playing at that time including Fehr-Cullen-Plotz 4th line was better.

How much you wanna bet? Think carefully about this one.

And yeah, he was good. He was fast, physical, and at the time he was moved he was drawing the most penalties per 60 minutes of any player in the NHL. Again, unless you think PP opportunities are unimportant.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

To be fair, his site does get a lot more direct interviews with JR and his quotes are always interesting. I wouldn't pay for those quotes, but JR seems to be increasingly going to those guys with direct interviews over the Trib and Gazette.

True. But you don't get buddy-buddy with an incompetent franchise by calling them on their **** all the time, and putting out insightful, impartial content. You get there by brown-nosing super hard.

A perfect example was how DK and everyone publicly crucified (and rightfully so) Rossi after the JR/Rossi incident. Part of that was because Rossi's an insufferable ****, but the fact that they all publicly tore him apart after an exchange between Rossi and JR was in no small part due to the fact that they're in the organization's pocket.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

So you are saying the organization made a bad call prioritizing Kunitz over Perron?

Oh yeah, I would have gladly played Perron over Kunitz. That's not my argument. I only brought up Kunitz's production to highlight how bad Perrons numbers were here. Especially considering he played with Crosby and Maklin and Kessel. They were considerable bad enough that you cant blame it on line mates and misuse.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Oh yeah, I would have gladly played Perron over Kunitz. That's not my argument. I only brought up Kunitz's production to highlight how bad Perrons numbers were here. Especially considering he played with Crosby and Maklin and Kessel. They were considerable bad enough that you cant blame it on line mates and misuse.

The argument was about preferring lesser vets over more deserving youth, so you've already admitted as much here.

And if you'll recall, Perron was producing as much as any forward not named Crosby, Malkin, or Kessel this year. So if you're roasting Perron, be prepared to do the same for Hornqvist, a winger who plays well on this team only when used in his proper role.

Weird how much that can affect perception, huh?

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Oh yeah, I would have gladly played Perron over Kunitz. That's not my argument. I only brought up Kunitz's production to highlight how bad Perrons numbers were here. Especially considering he played with Crosby and Maklin and Kessel. They were considerable bad enough that you cant blame it on line mates and misuse.

Just out of curiosity, what was the production like of Sid, Geno, and Hornqvist in the time Perron was here?

I'm willing to bet they all had a marked and dramatic drop off in production as well as play.

**** it, I'll look it up because I'm genuinely curious now.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

You do realize that somebody has to play there, and the org's choice proves their preference?



They did and do blackball young players (check the definition I provided earlier).

Despres was regularly criticized by the org, often being held accountable for Scuderi's mistakes, and any successes he had were held up as the result of Scuderi's tutelage. Did you miss all of that nonsense or are you being deliberately obtuse?

Further, the fact that they prioritized a clearly lesser vet in Lovejoy over Despres is the most direct illustration. This team regularly fails to see what it has in young talent, and often chooses worse vets to play in their place.



You're ignoring everything that was said earlier about role and wing side, and the Hornqvist analogy about how usage affects effectiveness.



How much you wanna bet? Think carefully about this one.

And yeah, he was good. He was fast, physical, and at the time he was moved he was drawing the most penalties per 60 minutes of any player in the NHL. Again, unless you think PP opportunities are unimportant.

1. I don't care about their preference, both were bad.

2. You know damn well the 9 didn't convene to find a way to get rid of Despres or run Perron out of town.

3. They made mistakes with Despres sure. They attributed too much of his good play to Scuderi and they had a hard on for Lovejoy. Nothing there is blackballing. Go research how the communism hearings affected prominent members of Hollywood back in the 50s. That's blackballing. This was a mistake.

4. His usage was fine (not buying the had to play like a grinder BS at all), he played both wings equally ineffectively and Hornqvist still plays like Hornqvist with Malkin. The production dips but not nearly to Perron/Kunitz levels and he still does the other things he is good at.

5. No Farnham sucks. He drew a couple penalties and that's it. Harry Z. is the same player. There is a reason why he has never carved out any real NHL career.

 

[Shady Machine]

True. But you don't get buddy-buddy with an incompetent franchise by calling them on their **** all the time, and putting out insightful, impartial content. You get there by brown-nosing super hard.

A perfect example was how DK and everyone publicly crucified (and rightfully so) Rossi after the JR/Rossi incident. Part of that was because Rossi's an insufferable ****, but the fact that they all publicly tore him apart after an exchange between Rossi and JR was in no small part due to the fact that they're in the organization's pocket.

For sure. I'm not saying I want to pay for that, but I get why people do. Closer to org = better access = better reporters and better analysis. Or that's how the subscribers will look at it.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Just out of curiosity, what was the production like of Sid, Geno, and Hornqvist in the time Perron was here?

I'm willing to bet they all had a marked and dramatic drop off in production as well as play.

**** it, I'll look it up because I'm genuinely curious now.

Actually, not at first. But the shine did lose it's luster.

There were so many variables working against the Pens. The injuries were mounting, again. Key ones. Hornqvist being probably the most devastating.

Kunitz/Perron, Crosby, Hornqvist replacement didn't matter at the time, making line one neutered.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

The argument was about preferring lesser vets over more deserving youth, so you've already admitted as much here.

And if you'll recall, Perron was producing as much as any forward not named Crosby, Malkin, or Kessel this year. So if you're roasting Perron, be prepared to do the same for Hornqvist, a winger who plays well on this team only when used in his proper role.

Weird how much that can affect perception, huh?

The argument was about your absolute hyperbolic nonsense. Yes sometime they play vets over young players and sometimes they don't.

Pouliot is playing over Cole right now and so is Dumo and Maata. All except Pouliot are playing over Lovejoy. Bennett was playing on Corsbys wing over Perron, Hornqvist and everyone not named Kunitz before he got hurt.

You want to paint with a broad brush and its just not accurate.

As far as Hornqvist vs Perron. Davis Perron was literally playing on his good wing, with Malkin and Kessel. There are no excuses for his production. You can spare me the "he's the grinder" crap. There is no "grinder" on the Hagelin-Malkin/Cullen-Kessel line and he's doing just fine.