Confirmed Trade: [PIT/FLA] Colton Sceviour and Mike Matheson for Patric Hornqvist

[nbwingsfan]

And as bad as Matheson was, he was still better than Johnson and Schultz.

Again, that's not a compliment to Matheson's performance as much as it is a condemnation of how truly awful that Pens' third pairing was.

Have anything to back that up? Because the play I saw from him in the playoffs was one of the worst displays of hockey I've seen in my 30 years of watching/playing hockey.

 

[GoldiFox]

Have anything to back that up? Because the play I saw from him in the playoffs was one of the worst displays of hockey I've seen in my 30 years of watching/playing hockey.

It's harder to say because Matheson only played 2 games. But statistically Schultz/Johnson were actually worse. All of 3 of them were among the worst in the entire Playoffs depending on the metric.

5v5 stats	GA/60	CA/60	HDCA/60
Matheson	5.0	52.5	5.0
Schultz	5.1	58.6	7.2
Johnson	5.8	54.4	10.4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Have anything to back that up? Because the play I saw from him in the playoffs was one of the worst displays of hockey I've seen in my 30 years of watching/playing hockey.

The fact it was the least used pairing and still had the advanced worst stats and goals against? The Pens allowed 9 goals against at 5on5 the entire series, those two were on the ice for 5 of those 9 goals against, despite logging the least minutes of all the pairings.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Sounds like the deal is falling apart or dead already:


Why the reported Hornqvist-Matheson trade is being held up - Sportsnet.ca

whoops

 

[Headshot77]

I can't believe it was the Florida side that nixed the deal (if the insurance rumors are true). This trade is a GRAND SLAM for the Panthers already.

 

[Michoulicious]

And Pens fans everywhere rejoice lol

Dodged a bullet there.

Rutherford has not said his last word, however!

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

I can't believe it was the Florida side that nixed the deal (if the insurance rumors are true). This trade is a GRAND SLAM for the Panthers already.

Insurance pays 80% of the salary if he goes on LTIR though no?
It's a valid concern imo.
I get Matheson's deal is horrid but if used in a more offensive role, he's an overpaid #4 D.
A Skjei type comparable, very similar 5 on 5 goals/points and very similar fancy stats/possession/defensive metrics.
Matheson has lower cap but longer term, Skjei has bigger cap but shorter term.

He averages 8 goals and 25pts (over 82 game average) with no PP time, just need a good defensive babysitter, preferably a #3 RD.

 

[Michoulicious]

Insurance pays 80% of the salary if he goes on LTIR though no?
It's a valid concern imo.
I get Matheson's deal is horrid but if used in a more offensive role, he's an overpaid #4 D.
A Skjei type comparable, very similar 5 on 5 goals/points and very similar fancy stats/possession/defensive metrics.
Matheson has lower cap but longer term, Skjei has bigger cap but shorter term.

He averages 7-8 goals and 25pts with no PP time, just need a good defensive babysitter, preferably a #3 RD.

Matheson is WAY WORSE than Skjei.

WAY WORSE.

Skjei was traded for a 1st round pick a few months ago.

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Matheson is WAY WORSE than Skjei.

WAY WORSE.

Skjei was traded for a 1st round pick a few months ago.

Ya and that trade has yet to show it's worth, he played less than 10 games for CAR so far.
Both drafted 5 spots from each other in 2012.
Skjei had that really solid year in 16-17 with that fairly decent NYR roster (4th in offense, 13th in defense)
Impressive he got 39pts with 17:27 mins of TOI and 2nd PP unit time.
Nick Holden had 34pts that year, either has never touched that again before or after.

Skjei is more physical, less turnovers. Both block same amount of shots.
Matheson is better at takeaways and looks to have more DZ starts so worse GA/G.
Lots of their fancy stats are very close, did a good hour long look at it a couple weeks ago.

WAY worse is not correct. Skjei's numbers should improve on a more well balanced CAR defense, FLA is lacking any #2 or #3 D, Ekblad is the only true legit #1/top 4 D.
Weegar has shown flashes this year, should be able to continue it.

 

[PhilThrillPill]

Matheson is the softest defenseman in the league. Surprised Pittsburgh are after him.

Are you?

 

[The Old Master]

Insurance pays 80% of the salary if he goes on LTIR though no?
It's a valid concern imo.
I get Matheson's deal is horrid but if used in a more offensive role, he's an overpaid #4 D.
A Skjei type comparable, very similar 5 on 5 goals/points and very similar fancy stats/possession/defensive metrics.
Matheson has lower cap but longer term, Skjei has bigger cap but shorter term.

View attachment 368639

He averages 8 goals and 25pts (over 82 game average) with no PP time, just need a good defensive babysitter, preferably a #3 RD.

if you want insurance, buy it. what's the big deal?

 

[nbwingsfan]

if you want insurance, buy it. what's the big deal?

That's the problem, doesn't look like anyone will offer it.

It's not as simple as youre making it

 

[Clayonator]

Is Hornqvist still passed out in the sauna?

 

[uncleben]

Insurance pays 80% of the salary if he goes on LTIR though no?
It's a valid concern imo.
I get Matheson's deal is horrid but if used in a more offensive role, he's an overpaid #4 D.
A Skjei type comparable, very similar 5 on 5 goals/points and very similar fancy stats/possession/defensive metrics.
Matheson has lower cap but longer term, Skjei has bigger cap but shorter term.

View attachment 368639

He averages 8 goals and 25pts (over 82 game average) with no PP time, just need a good defensive babysitter, preferably a #3 RD.

Matheson - Ceci pairing, got it.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Pit currently has 5 LDs and only 3 RDs. Getting another LD doesn’t make sense unless you are moving one. Get a cheap RD to compete with Ruhwedel for 3RD playing time. Shoot Jack Johnson into the sun. Then concentrate on getting a 3C or a 4C if you are convinced Bluegar is the 3C.

 

[molon labe]

Matheson is the softest defenseman in the league. Surprised Pittsburgh are after him.

Sullivan doesn't allow his players to be physical and GMJR despises it. You'll hear stats about how much the Pens hit - it honestly surprises all of us. One of those straw poll scenarios where nobody knows where the data comes from.

In no particular order we look for guys that are severely undersized, have injury concerns (if not, don't worry we can train you up on that), or play soft. If you're physical - it's not an undesirable trait, we'll just restrain you from playing that way unless it becomes meaningless against Philly or Washington when that's all we'll ask of you.

 

[Treb]

Insurance pays 80% of the salary if he goes on LTIR though no?
It's a valid concern imo.
I get Matheson's deal is horrid but if used in a more offensive role, he's an overpaid #4 D.
A Skjei type comparable, very similar 5 on 5 goals/points and very similar fancy stats/possession/defensive metrics.
Matheson has lower cap but longer term, Skjei has bigger cap but shorter term.

View attachment 368639

He averages 8 goals and 25pts (over 82 game average) with no PP time, just need a good defensive babysitter, preferably a #3 RD.

if you want insurance, buy it. what's the big deal?

Pretty sure insurance is determined before the signing is made, which is why the Clarkson/Horton deal happened as Horton was not insured.

 

[KIRK]

Pit currently has 5 LDs and only 3 RDs. Getting another LD doesn’t make sense unless you are moving one. Get a cheap RD to compete with Ruhwedel for 3RD playing time. Shoot Jack Johnson into the sun. Then concentrate on getting a 3C or a 4C if you are convinced Bluegar is the 3C.

When has 'making sense' ever gotten in Jim Rutherford's way?

 

[TheImpatientPanther]

Pretty sure insurance is determined before the signing is made, which is why the Clarkson/Horton deal happened as Horton was not insured.

Yup, Friedman points that out in the update and Zito was in CBJ during that Horton debacle. Doubt he wants round 2 but at least it'd be 3 years and not 6.
Feel Horn can produce for 2 years, that 3rd year may get rough though

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Well even if this particular move doesn't happen we now know that JR is open to making terrible trades somebody is going to steal Matt Murray

 

[Linds]

Honestly, I was really intrigued with Matheson as an addition, so I'm not that crazy about the deal being off. Matheson seemed to bring a lot of skills to the Penguins that the team lacked.

Making fresh turnovers in the oven?

 

[Riptide]

Pretty sure insurance is determined before the signing is made, which is why the Clarkson/Horton deal happened as Horton was not insured.

Theres more to it the that (re Horton). CBJ knew that he was going to miss significant time in yr 1 when they signed that contract and didnt want to get hit with the deductable so they intentionally didnt insure the contract with the plan of insuring it for yr2. Unfortunately he got hurt before they could insure him and then it was too late.

My point with this is that at one time not too long ago it was clearly possible to alter the insurance status mid contract, which if you think about it isnt really a surprise.

 

[Halla]

this would be a steal for Florida. Matheson is awful and that 4.875 x 6 is UGGGLLLLLY

 

[Halla]

I’m thinking this means Jack Johnson is either getting traded or bought out.

not bad plan...save $500,000 with this trade and then some more by getting rid of J.Johnson.

its a terrible plan lol. taking on a bottom pair dman signed for SIX more years at nearly 5 mil to save 500k?

 

[Kuznetsnow]

Matheson would be a LW in Pittsburgh not LD