Proposal: PIT - VGK (bribe)

[KIRK]

Why waive? take the buyout money and sign a shiny new contract elsewhere...double whammy.

Exactly. And while Fleury at 5.75M a year for the next two years won't have many suitors, Fleury at 3-4M a year would not lack for suitors.

If he even took 3M a year for the next two years from some team he really loved, total earnings including the buyout would be 13.7M, which is more than the 11.5M his current contract will pay him.

Little chance Fleury waives after the deadline. As close to no chance without being zero that he waives to go to Vegas.

 

[Dylonus]

Isn't it against contractual obligations within the NHLPA to do something like this...?

I'd imagine it'd be a form of "cheating" and Pittsburgh would definitely be penalized for it.

 

[KIRK]

Isn't it against contractual obligations within the NHLPA to do something like this...?

I'd imagine it'd be a form of "cheating" and Pittsburgh would definitely be penalized for it.

The recent previous expansions have had cases where teams have 'bribed' an expansion team with pics and/or prospects to not take players. Unless there's a rule for this specific expansion, I don't think it's 'cheating'.

 

[A1LeafNation]

If I'm Vegas I'm taking Murray.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

They still didn't have to trade him, they could have Trouba/Drouined him. (Let him sit)

And lets be honest, Fleury's 3.25 GA and .905 save% this season don't exactly scream "hey Vegas...take me!!".

He's having a rough season, but in the prior two he had the 13th best SV% of goalies that played 40 games combined over those two seasons and the most shutouts.

If I'm Vegas I'm taking Murray.

MURRAY WILL NOT BE AVAILABLE.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If I'm Vegas I'm taking Murray.

Again, Vegas will never have the opportunity at Murray. It's the Penguins bribe Vegas or the Penguins buyout Fleury.

 

[KIRK]

Again, Vegas will never have the opportunity at Murray. It's the Penguins bribe Vegas or the Penguins buyout Fleury.

They'll buyout Fleury. One, they're not going to carry two goaltenders making a combined 9.25M next season. Two, it's cheaper to buyout Fleury (the Pens can do that, sign a 2.5M vet, and SAVE cap space) than it will be to bribe Vegas (a GM is going to want equivalent value for Murray not to take him if he were available . . . I'd want a 1st and a higher end Pens prospect like Sprong, which again is why they'll buyout Fleury first . . . unless of course Fleury is on IR when the buyout window opens ).

 

[chunkylover53]

I was a propenent of trading Fleury when his value was high...now I'm not even sure what he's worth

 

[Empoleon8771]

They'll buyout Fleury. One, they're not going to carry two goaltenders making a combined 9.25M next season. Two, it's cheaper to buyout Fleury (the Pens can do that, sign a 2.5M vet, and SAVE cap space) than it will be to bribe Vegas (a GM is going to want equivalent value for Murray not to take him if he were available . . . I'd want a 1st and a higher end Pens prospect like Sprong, which again is why they'll buyout Fleury first . . . unless of course Fleury is on IR when the buyout window opens ).

If Fleury wants a buyout like you said, why would him being on IR be relevant? The rule is you can't buy out a guy who's on LTIR without their permission, not you can't buy out a guy on LTIR.

 

[Liferleafer]

They'll buyout Fleury. One, they're not going to carry two goaltenders making a combined 9.25M next season. Two, it's cheaper to buyout Fleury (the Pens can do that, sign a 2.5M vet, and SAVE cap space) than it will be to bribe Vegas (a GM is going to want equivalent value for Murray not to take him if he were available . . . I'd want a 1st and a higher end Pens prospect like Sprong, which again is why they'll buyout Fleury first . . . unless of course Fleury is on IR when the buyout window opens ).

You may save cap...but you forgot to add Fleury's buyout cost to that 2.5 million dollar vet.

 

[Tender Rip]

I hope JR can do a bit better than the OP, but if he cannot, I will not cry about it very long.

 

[airbus220]

they'll buyout Fleury first . . . unless of course Fleury is on IR when the buyout window opens ).

I don't think we are interested in Fleury.
We will be in talks with 7 other Metro teams who are interested that PIT gets a buyout cap hit
If Fleury loves PIT so much he could be injured (concussion) and not be bought out.
Then PIT could trade Murray and lose another player in expansion, or only lose Murray to VEGAS

 

[A1LeafNation]

Again, Vegas will never have the opportunity at Murray. It's the Penguins bribe Vegas or the Penguins buyout Fleury.

When it happens then that will he the case. Is there any indication Fleury will be bought out?

 

[Empoleon8771]

When it happens then that will he the case. Is there any indication Fleury will be bought out?

Is there any indication that the Penguins will leave Murray exposed for the draft? Everything here is speculation.

 

[Riptide]

to PIT: 5th Rounder, Draft Assurance*
to VGK: Fleury, Pouliot

*The draft assurance being that Vegas would agree to not take whichever of Sundqvist, Rust, Kuhnhackl, Wilson, Fehr or Cole go unprotected.

That pretty much leaves them to take our really low end guys like Dea, Percy, or Erixon.

Too much to ask?

Not enough to ask?

A few thoughts:

1) LV can't afford to move picks. They're starting their prospect pool from scratch and will need every single pick they have (and then some).

2) I question Pouliot's value to LV. He's shown he can play at this level. However while he's only played a handful of games this season, he's been maddeningly inconsistent game to game. Not a new thing for young players, but when added with his waiver status (this is his final waiver free season), I question the value that LV would see in him. He needs to be playing in the NHL if he's going to continue developing as a player. But if he's not one of their top 6D, then why would they do it?

3) MAF would A) have to waive his NMC to LV* and B) LV would have to want him. I know THN (or whomever) just had a thing on goalies for LV, but I really don't see this being an issue for them. There will be FA options available to them. And there will be expansion draft options to them (MAF, Howard, Niemi, etc).

4) I get that this is MAF+DP+expansion pick for a 5th and assurances (that 5th would likely change to a 7th or something else inconsequential). And looking at it in that light, the value is probably there. But when you pick it apart (LV having goalie options, DP's value), I question why LV would do that? Vs say them asking for a 1st/2nd/3rd not to pick anyone we actually want to keep. I mean depending on how we make our list, there's going to be a couple good players/prospects unprotected (Schultz, Cole, Sundqvist, Rust, Bonino, etc).

I mean maybe that's enough... but personally, other than MAF allowing them to use another pick on another player and DP just being another prospect/project for them, I don't really see the value there for them. But then that also will depend on who we're exposing and who we're trying to protect. Protecting Rust/Sundqvist will be a hell of a lot cheaper then protecting Murray or Schultz (although his contract status/EDM experience might throw a wrench into things there for LV).

* Regarding MAF's NMC/NTC. If he had to make his list in the off season (which is usually when it's done), and LV wasn't officially a team, could he block a move to them? I mean how do you block a move to a team that doesn't exist? And if he can't amend his list until next offseason... could that mean that it's possible to trade MAF (and other players with partial NTCs) to LV without needing his consent?

 

[Riptide]

I admit, I havent been following close enough, but wouldn't Murray be exposed to the expansion draft too, seeing as Fleury has to be protected because of his no-trade clause?
Would that not be an obvious pick for Vegas if there is a legitimate (?) starting option in net available?

There's no chance Murray is getting exposed unless there's already a deal in place that LV will not select him. PIT has the following options when it comes to MAF/Murray (in no particular order):

1) Trade MAF (with or without retention)
2) Buyout MAF
3) Get MAF to waive his NMC
4) Get MAF to waive his NMC and bribe LV not to pick MAF (but protect MM)
5) Bribe LV not to pick Murray
6) Trade Murray

All of those are options that will happen before Pittsburgh loses a #1 goalie who just back stopped them to a cup and is 22 years old to LV in the expansion draft. That's just not going to happen - and anyone who gives it some thought will recognize that. If at the end of the day PIT is down to either losing MM for free or trading him for a marginal return, why wouldn't they trade him for said marginal return?

 

[Riptide]

Great. So why would Vegas agree to this?

They might not agree to "this" as the OP proposed it. But why would they agree to a bribe not to pick Murray? Because they know they'll never get him regardless, and agreeing to a bribe means they'll get the bribe+ the player they get to select vs just getting the player they get to select (which will NOT be Matt Murray - either because MAF was moved so Murray was protected or Murray was traded).

This is why people who say that it'll cost a fortune to protect Murray aren't thinking logically. It won't cost a fortune. Why? Because PIT has other options to ensure that MM can be protected. LV's options are limited. They can either accept a bribe not to pick Murray, or they can not get said bribe and still not get MM - which leaves them worse off. Ultimately LV will do what's in their best interest (which is getting as many desirable assets as possible).

This is why it will never cost a 1st+ or one of our top prospects (Sprong, Guentzel, etc) to bribe LV not to pick Murray. The bribe will be nowhere near Murray's actual value.

 

[Jacob]

I don't think we are interested in Fleury.
We will be in talks with 7 other Metro teams who are interested that PIT gets a buyout cap hit
If Fleury loves PIT so much he could be injured (concussion) and not be bought out.
Then PIT could trade Murray and lose another player in expansion, or only lose Murray to VEGAS

You think Fleury will intentionally concuss himself to stay in Pittsburgh? Or are you saying it's clinically possible to fake a concussion?

 

[Riptide]

Vegas may not have been eligible to be put on NTCs for this year because they weren't a team yet. When Vegas does enter the league, the NTCs for this year will still be in effect, so it's entirely possible that he can be traded there. His NTC says he can make a 12 team list of teams that he can't go to, I haven't heard if Vegas was eligible to be included on that list. The PA couldn't really do anything about that then, Fleury would be fair game to be traded to Vegas in that case.

Like ONO94 said, it all depends on how it's written. We (HF/PIT fans) have simplified his NTC to "he can list 12 teams he cannot be traded to". However what if his list actually reads "list 17 teams he can be traded to"? It's all going to depend on the exact language of his SPC/NTC, and unfortunately, we're not privy to how exactly this is specified. So... it might be possible. Or it might not be.

Personally while we can speculate on it, I wouldn't hold my breath that his NTC reads in such a manor that it favors us in any way. It's the NHLPA and his agent's job to ensure that the contract favors MAF as much as possible, and just listing his approved teams seems like such a small thing to ensure that something unforeseen like this (31st team) doesn't cause him issues. Especially as there's been non official expansion talk for years.

 

[Riptide]

You may save cap...but you forgot to add Fleury's buyout cost to that 2.5 million dollar vet.

MAF's buyout and a 2.5m vet is still cheaper then carrying MAF on the roster.

Is there any indication that the Penguins will leave Murray exposed for the draft? Everything here is speculation.

Well actually Rutherford already said that Pittsburgh will not be losing a goalie in the expansion draft. How he plans to manage that is up for debate, but he's already gone on record that it will not happen - and he has many options available to him to ensure it doesn't.

 

[airbus220]

You think Fleury will intentionally concuss himself to stay in Pittsburgh? Or are you saying it's clinically possible to fake a concussion?

I think it's easy to fake a concussion because there's still not much knowledge about concussions.
Does Fleury have a concussion history. He better should have been traded for nothing yesterday.

 

[Jacob]

I think it's easy to fake a concussion because there's still not much knowledge about concussions.
Does Fleury have a concussion history. He better should have been traded for nothing yesterday.

 

[KIRK]

You may save cap...but you forgot to add Fleury's buyout cost to that 2.5 million dollar vet.

Fleury's buyout cost is 7.66M spread over 4 years. That's a little over 1.8M per year.

1.8M (buyout) + 2.5M (vet backup) = 4.3M

That's a 1.425M savings per year for the next two years.

They would, of course, be hit for the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 seasons with 1.8M in dead space, but better to worry about it then than the alternatives.

 

[Liferleafer]

Fleury's buyout cost is 7.66M spread over 4 years. That's a little over 1.8M per year.

1.8M (buyout) + 2.5M (vet backup) = 4.3M

That's a 1.425M savings per year for the next two years.

They would, of course, be hit for the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 seasons with 1.8M in dead space, but better to worry about it then than the alternatives.

It's actually 1.916 per to buy him out. So it's 4.416 or a little over 1.3 in savings.

I get it, i was just pointing out that he didn't add it in.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The deal you make should set them up to take Pouliot...not give them Pouliot and then tell them to take something else...

You really just have to find a way to protect Murray in all this...leaving a player like Scott Wilson or Tom Kuhnhackl unprotected and worrying about is not in the realm of reality...

You tell Fleury to waive his thing, you expose him, protect Murray, dangle Pouliot out there and let sleeping dogs lie...I think this deal is too complicated for both teams...

This is sound.

The Pens could end up still having both goalies.

Fleury's trade value is intact and the Pens can trade him at their leisure.