Pirri's next contract

[hockeydoug]

900k/yr?

I think that's a pretty good number as things are right now.

 

[LandofLincoln*]

This is what I'm thinking...with the idea that it would likely be less. He's really going to have to play lights out to get anything close to a 2.5 million per season. Nyquist was in line to win the AHL scoring title before a callup and played well in the playoffs. He got 950k per season.

It would be a steal to get him for Kruger $$ or even less like Nyquist's deal.

After looking at Nyquist's numbers and stats the players to me are not exactly apples to apples comparisons even though their numbers in the AHL seem comparable. Pirri's birth year 1991 & Nyquist's 1989 not that this matters all that much right now, but Pirri clearly is projected as a top six player and always has had that ceiling being a 2nd round pick.

Nyquist's role is growing with the Redwings and his ice time is at 15 minutes a game, but there was no sample size of NHL production when he was qualified. Pirri's resume is similar, but he will have much more leverage with the number of games alone after this season as a top six player. If he puts up 40PTs which should be easy at his current pace...then I would think a contract would be based on point production and also more $$ for being in a top six role.

30 Pts = 1.5m a season 40-45 Pts = 2.0m a season say 16G & 25A


and lets say 20G & 20A or better is north of 2.1m a season.

Michael Frolik had two seasons 2009-09 21G & 24A and then 2009-10 21G & 22A.. Stan had a small sample size in Chicago, but Frolik looked decent in the playoffs and Stan gave him 2.1m a season for 2 years.

Pirri would have to go completely in the other direction to miss 30Pts. He is on pace to be a 20G & 20A player, but more sample size needed and it probably will be discussed seriously after the Hawks have played 60 games. If Pirri has 30Pts after 60 games he will be over 2.0m a season.

 

[SLarmer28*]

http://www.capgeek.com/blackhawks

2014-15 Chicago Blackhawks salary cap - $63,915,962 committed/16 players

 

[HjalmarFan]

I don't understand the claim that Pirri has no leverage. If he goes to arbitration as a 2C, Calder contender with a 50 point season, he's going to be awarded a significant pay increase. I would think it would be in the 2.7-3.3 mill. range. If the Hawks can lock him up for a few years for money in the Kruger-Shaw range, they should do it.

 

[Hawkaholic]

I don't understand the claim that Pirri has no leverage. If he goes to arbitration as a 2C, Calder contender with a 50 point season, he's going to be awarded a significant pay increase. I would think it would be in the 2.7-3.3 mill. range. If the Hawks can lock him up for a few years for money in the Kruger-Shaw range, they should do it.

I guess Pirri does have arbitration, but barely any players who have elected it have actually went through with the process.

 

[Pailhead]

It would be a steal to get him for Kruger $$ or even less like Nyquist's deal.

After looking at Nyquist's numbers and stats the players to me are not exactly apples to apples comparisons even though their numbers in the AHL seem comparable. Pirri's birth year 1991 & Nyquist's 1989 not that this matters all that much right now, but Pirri clearly is projected as a top six player and always has had that ceiling being a 2nd round pick.

Nyquist's role is growing with the Redwings and his ice time is at 15 minutes a game, but there was no sample size of NHL production when he was qualified. Pirri's resume is similar, but he will have much more leverage with the number of games alone after this season as a top six player. If he puts up 40PTs which should be easy at his current pace...then I would think a contract would be based on point production and also more $$ for being in a top six role.

30 Pts = 1.5m a season 40-45 Pts = 2.0m a season say 16G & 25A


and lets say 20G & 20A or better is north of 2.1m a season.

Michael Frolik had two seasons 2009-09 21G & 24A and then 2009-10 21G & 22A.. Stan had a small sample size in Chicago, but Frolik looked decent in the playoffs and Stan gave him 2.1m a season for 2 years.

Pirri would have to go completely in the other direction to miss 30Pts. He is on pace to be a 20G & 20A player, but more sample size needed and it probably will be discussed seriously after the Hawks have played 60 games. If Pirri has 30Pts after 60 games he will be over 2.0m a season.

When you guys start talking about 2.5 million per year you're getting into Nazem Kadri (2.9 per) territory as a RFA. I'll be ecstatic if we get a season like that from Pirri, but I'm not counting on it.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

I guess Pirri does have arbitration, but barely any players who have elected it have actually went through with the process.

That's because they come to terms with the club. Your idea is that Pirri sign a contract for $900k. Why would he do that rather than going to arbitration? A player isn't going to forgo his arbitration rights so he can accept a contract for the minimum amount.

 

[LandofLincoln*]

When you guys start talking about 2.5 million per year you're getting into Nazem Kadri (2.9 per) territory as a RFA. I'll be ecstatic if we get a season like that from Pirri, but I'm not counting on it.

There is a big difference between a Kruger and N. Kadri contract. I agree Kadri is probably the closer comparison of what the Hawks will pay.

I think if the Hawks offered Pirri a contract now they could maybe get him for 1.75-2m a year for 2 years. Anything less and I think Pirri wouldn't even consider them serious and take his chances by playing out the season.

Pirri could work his value up to 2.1-2.5m a season if after 60 games he is a .50 PPG player.

If Pirri finishes the season with over 60 PTS the Hawks are looking at 2.7m or north.

Regardless of where he finishes it looks like he is the 2nd line center next season. Stan can get Pirri right now if he gives him a Andrew Shaw deal.

The longer they wait on Pirri the more he gets paid. If we win the cup this year Pirri will be at 3.2m a season. Stan's great no complaints on the way he handles his job.

Sometimes you have to wait like we did with Bickell. Sometimes players like Shaw and Pirri should be signed early, because they are role players that get more expensive at years end.

 

[Hawkaholic]

That's because they come to terms with the club. Your idea is that Pirri sign a contract for $900k. Why would he do that rather than going to arbitration? A player isn't going to forgo his arbitration rights so he can accept a contract for the minimum amount.

What's he going to win in arbitration? He has only played 1 full NHL season (on pace for 40+pts), playing on the same line as the Hawks top scorer (Kane). The arbitrator will look at deals signed by guys like Zuccerello or Letestu etc, and award him maybe a shade over 1mil.

And Pirri would hardly be signing for the minimum, 900k would be almost a 40% increase on his current salary.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Pirri, if he keeps his pace, will make more than Kruger? Why? Because he is a more valuable commodity than Kruger, outside the Q world that is.

 

[Bubba88]

#1 PK guy vs the guy that has the spot that Zeus had during our Cup run... for a guy that watches the game within the game thats a bold statement you just made

 

[Marotte Marauder]

#1 PK guy vs the guy that has the spot that Zeus had during our Cup run... for a guy that watches the game within the game thats a bold statement you just made

#1 PK guy on a lousy PK WOW, big deal. Zeus had the spot because Kruger sucked at it, multiple times.

If Pirri's point total this season matches Kruger's career to date numbers and is a plus player with FO% the same as Kruger's prior to this season, how in the world would he get less money as a Top 6?

 

[Bubba88]

leverage... calling this season a fluke and inflated because he plays with Kane. How about the depth we have with prospects that all could play as #2 Center?

just for that other part. Pirri is a better Offensiv player, but he currently has the same amount of pts as Krüger has after a bit over 1/4 of the season.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

leverage... calling this season a fluke and inflated because he plays with Kane. How about the depth we have with prospects that all could play as #2 Center?

just for that other part. Pirri is a better Offensiv player, but he currently has the same amount of pts as Krüger has after a bit over 1/4 of the season.

How many points did Kruger have in his first 1/4 NHL season?

Since it's Thanksgiving I'll hel you out. Kruger had 5 points and was -1 his 1st 1/4 season. Hmmm.

 

[Pailhead]

He may get more than Kruger, but I still don't anticipate him getting any of the the contracts listed in this poll. If he does, good for him...and probably good for the Blackhawks since it more than likely means he had a great rookie season and solidified himself as a 2nd line center.

 

[HockeySauce]

How many points did Kruger have in his first 1/4 NHL season?

Since it's Thanksgiving I'll hel you out. Kruger had 5 points and was -1 his 1st 1/4 season. Hmmm.

Kruger spent the entirety of that 1/4 season on the 4th line, with no PP time.

What rate did Kruger score at when he played in the top-6 from January to the end of the season in 2011-12? 0.43. From February on, he scored at a 0.5PpG pace. What rate is Pirri currently scoring at, playing with Patrick Kane? 0.55.

Kruger spent a lot of that time with Sharp and Stalberg, especially in the final month of the season and into the playoffs. Pirri's spent a lot of his time with Kane and Saad/Versteeg this season.

Kruger was 21 at the time, and was in his first N.A Pro season. Brandon Pirri is currently 22, and is in his 4th Pro season.

You can spin what I said however you like MM, but in terms of numbers and comparing them for the basis of an argument for what a player should or shouldn't get on a contract; Pirri's producing at only a slightly better pace than Kruger when Kruger was in that role, and Kruger was and remains an integral part of Chicago's PK, whereas Pirri is not and very, very likely will never be.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

Kruger spent the entirety of that 1/4 season on the 4th line, with no PP time.

What rate did Kruger score at when he played in the top-6 from January to the end of the season in 2011-12? 0.43. From February on, he scored at a 0.5PpG pace. What rate is Pirri currently scoring at, playing with Patrick Kane? 0.55.

Kruger spent a lot of that time with Sharp and Stalberg, especially in the final month of the season and into the playoffs. Pirri's spent a lot of his time with Kane and Saad/Versteeg this season.

Kruger was 21 at the time, and was in his first N.A Pro season. Brandon Pirri is currently 22, and is in his 4th Pro season.

btw The difference in PPG production, based on your stats is about a 25% advantage to Pirri.

You can spin what I said however you like MM, but in terms of numbers and comparing them for the basis of an argument for what a player should or shouldn't get on a contract; Pirri's producing at only a slightly better pace than Kruger when Kruger was in that role, and Kruger was and remains an integral part of Chicago's PK, whereas Pirri is not and very, very likely will never be.

Pick and choose the sample set you like if it fits your position. If Kruger was such a whizzbang at 2C, what happened? Why isn't he there now? Too valuable on the 4th line to move up? What is it?

Pirri will not be a fixture on PK, for sure but he may just become a big contributor on 2nd PP unit. Maybe?

So you're left with saying a 4C PKer gets more money than a 2C PPer? Not in the real world buddy.

The scoring difference PPG that you posted is 22% advantage for Pirri, not insignificant.

 

[ChiGuySez]

Pirris posted ppg or close to it at every level. Not saying hes doing it in the NHL but Kruger is not in his class.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Eleventy billion dollars.

 

[HockeySauce]

Pick and choose the sample set you like if it fits your position. If Kruger was such a whizzbang at 2C, what happened? Why isn't he there now? Too valuable on the 4th line to move up? What is it?

Pirri will not be a fixture on PK, for sure but he may just become a big contributor on 2nd PP unit. Maybe?

So you're left with saying a 4C PKer gets more money than a 2C PPer? Not in the real world buddy.

The scoring difference PPG that you posted is 22% advantage for Pirri, not insignificant.

Oh MM, you have such a.. unique view on things. If you don't like context, don't throw out random numbers.

And again, you try to spin my argument. I'm not arguing for or against Kruger being the 2nd line centre (nor for or against Pirri being the 2C, for that matter), I simply provided context to your stat. It's actually hilarious, "pick and choose the sample if it fits your position" - were you talking to yourself when you wrote that? Looks like it. Ha.. looks. Get it? Yeah you do.

No, I'm left saying that it's been proven that almost anyone can produce at a decent rate when they're in the Hawks top-6. Doesn't matter if it was Kruger, Handzus or Shaw in his first NHL season.

And the scoring difference in PpG pace was 12%, but then I provided a sample size that was closer to the amount of games Pirri's played this season, in which it was a 5% difference. Insignificant. And I believe Pirri's PpG shrunk a bit after tonight. Closer still. Again, insignificant.

 

[DPHawk]

Oh MM, you have such a.. unique view on things. If you don't like context, don't throw out random numbers.

And again, you try to spin my argument. I'm not arguing for or against Kruger being the 2nd line centre (nor for or against Pirri being the 2C, for that matter), I simply provided context to your stat. It's actually hilarious, "pick and choose the sample if it fits your position" - were you talking to yourself when you wrote that? Looks like it. Ha.. looks. Get it? Yeah you do.

No, I'm left saying that it's been proven that almost anyone can produce at a decent rate when they're in the Hawks top-6. Doesn't matter if it was Kruger, Handzus or Shaw in his first NHL season.

And the scoring difference in PpG pace was 12%, but then I provided a sample size that was closer to the amount of games Pirri's played this season, in which it was a 5% difference. Insignificant. And I believe Pirri's PpG shrunk a bit after tonight. Closer still. Again, insignificant.

Aren't you comparing Kruger and Pirri based on PPG while they played on the 2nd line? Pirri was obviously not on the 2nd tonight so tonight wouldn't be relevant for that comparison.

 

[HockeySauce]

Aren't you comparing Kruger and Pirri based on PPG while they played on the 2nd line? Pirri was obviously not on the 2nd tonight so tonight wouldn't be relevant for that comparison.

Pirri got mixed shifts tonight. Everyone on the third and second line played with one another.

 

[SLarmer28*]

Pirri's next contract ..... $150,000 from an AHL team not named the Rockford Icehogs.

 

[Bubba88]

Aren't you comparing Kruger and Pirri based on PPG while they played on the 2nd line? Pirri was obviously not on the 2nd tonight so tonight wouldn't be relevant for that comparison.

MM started this, Hoss just answered him with the right numbers for the sake of the arguments.
He just showed that it was wrong what MM said, nothing more and nothing else.

 

[Marotte Marauder]

How many points did Kruger have in his first 1/4 NHL season?

Since it's Thanksgiving I'll hel you out. Kruger had 5 points and was -1 his 1st 1/4 season. Hmmm.

MM started this, Hoss just answered him with the right numbers for the sake of the arguments.
He just showed that it was wrong what MM said, nothing more and nothing else.

No, what MM said is absolutely correct. Pirri's and Kruger's 1st 1/4 NHL stats. Hockey Sensible used Kruger's stats from the LAST portion of Kruger's 1st season (best portion of his career btw) compared to Pirri's 1st portion of his 1st NHL season.

You've been played, by the game within the game.