Pierre Pilote vs Börje Salming

[TheDevilMadeMe]

88-89, at age 37, you mean.

I think it is possible, but not likely. Bourque was a freak and not a great measuring stick for any sort of comparison. On one hand, Salming was nowhere near as Bourque, on the other hand, The 88-89 Leafs were terrible and probably needed Salming pretty badly.

that team was outscored 342-259 but Salming was +7. Crazy, hey? The year before, the team was also -72 but he was +7. He really was awesome.

Bourque is better than Salming, but that doesn't mean Salming had less endurance.

Jay freaking Bouwmeester routinely leads the NHL in ice time, or at least is close to it. Why? He can handle it and is better than the bottom pairing guys who who otherwise take it.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Actually, those quotes are totally ripped from Salming's bio on legendsofhockey.net

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Lege...dsMember.jsp?mem=p199602&type=Player&page=bio

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Actually, those quotes are totally ripped from Salming's bio on legendsofhockey.net

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/Lege...dsMember.jsp?mem=p199602&type=Player&page=bio

Haha, funny thing about that. Right under the big banner at the top of the page with each guy's name in small font: "Source: www.legendsofhockey.net" I didn't notice until you just made me check. Wonder if that makes us less inclined to believe his ice time as a 37/38 year old is being exaggerated then...

 

[John Flyers Fan]

The guys I consider closest to Salming, within 4 spots better or behind him, are, starting with best:
Tim Horton
Bill Gadsby
Al Macinnis
Sprague Cleghorn
Borje Salming
Valeri Vasiliev
Brian Leetch
Scott Stevens
Rod Langway

Just kind of a method I use when trying to round out what kind of company the player is keeping

Langway is too high. 2 Norris trophies or not, there is no way that he was better than Mark Howe.

The gap between the two offensively is so much bigger than the gap defensively.

Langway was the best player on a team that often had 2/3 other future Hall of Famers on it and routinely struggled in the playoffs.

Howe was the best player on teams that had no other Hall of Famers (2 borderline, Propp/Tocchet) that had a lot of playoff success.

Gartner routinely takes the heat for the Caps playoff failures, but how did "Mr. Shutdown defenseman" do?

I remember the Caps often giving up a lot of goals in those playoff defeats, whether is was to Kerr, Propp, Bossy, Lafontaine etc.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Langway is too high. 2 Norris trophies or not, there is no way that he was better than Mark Howe.

I think I have Howe higher than Langway AND Stevens, which seems odd given that he's currently the only non-HOF'er of the 3.

 

[kmad]

Langway is too high. 2 Norris trophies or not, there is no way that he was better than Mark Howe.

The gap between the two offensively is so much bigger than the gap defensively.

Langway was the best player on a team that often had 2/3 other future Hall of Famers on it and routinely struggled in the playoffs.

How often does a defensive defenseman come in 2nd in Hart voting?

The most compelling argument for Langway's greatness is the Capitals' record before and after he joined the team. Their change in win percentage was staggering.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

How often does a defensive defenseman come in 2nd in Hart voting?

The most compelling argument for Langway's greatness is the Capitals' record before and after he joined the team. Their change in win percentage was staggering.

Langway wasn't the only one that arrived that season. It wasn't just one player.

I'd take any one of Howe, Neidermayer or Pronger over Langway without a moments hesitation.

Much more well rounded players, and far better come playoff time.

 

[kmad]

Langway wasn't the only one that arrived that season. It wasn't just one player.

Langway had the largest impact by far. Without him, they don't make the playoffs. Sure, Gartner is in the Hall, but everyone knows he was never an impact player or gamebreaker despite his considerable goal totals. Stevens was around, but he was very green and not quite the impact player he was later in his career.

The team was Langway's; the Hart voting during his prime reflects and confirms that. The credit for the win differential belongs to him before anyone else.

I'd take any one of Howe, Neidermayer or Pronger over Langway without a moments hesitation.

I'd take Pronger over Langway from that group, but that'd be it.