Speculation: Pierre Groulx

[Matsens15]

The goalie coach. He was bad in Florida and Montreal boot him because he was trying to have a friendly relationship with Carey Price. Since he’s here our goalie have not been very good. The decline of Craig Anderson start when that guy come on in here.Andrew Hammond decline with him coming in and also Mike Condon decline massively with him and it seems like he clearly took the wrong approach with Matt Murray.

I know the defence is god awful and whoever is in net is not going to change anything but at some point the blame need to be pointed at somebody.

Do you guys think he’s part of the problem or the problem? I’d say yes. Do you guys think he will be fired?

Click to read more...

 

[Xspyrit]

Was he hired by Dorion? I don't even have the courage to look it up

And yes, if there is a problem, coaching staff is always part of the problem, unless they are able to make their guys outperform their status/contract. I have seen good coaches get some good out of marginal players

Look at Montreal for example, almost every player becomes better once they get there. Coaching is a crucial part of NHL success. Melnyk clearly don't believe in that

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

He's likely part of the problem. And the defense. And the coaching. And the team in general.

 

[Matsens15]

Was he hired by Dorion? I don't even have the courage to look it up

And yes, if there is a problem, coaching staff is always part of the problem, unless they are able to make their guys outperform their status/contract. I have seen good coaches get some good out of marginal players

Look at Montreal for example, almost every player becomes better once they get there. Coaching is a crucial part of NHL success. Melnyk clearly don't believe in that

Yes he was hired by dorion

 

[DJB]

Groulx has most of the input when it comes to FA goalies and drafting them.

Take that as you may.

 

[Tuna99]

He did say when he heard Murray was available “you don’t think about it, you just trade for him”

great job doing your homework.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I know nothing about him or goaltending, but why would it be bad to have a friendly relationship with a goalie he is coaching?

 

[Matsens15]

The Montreal Gazette recounts how Pierre Groulx, fired as goaltending coach of the Canadiens June 3, was then subject to heavy criticism from Vancouver Canucks counterpart Roland Melanson. Those comments were published in the French daily L’Acadie Nouvelle.


Among Melanson’s quoted comments: “Carey hasn’t stopped deteriorating since I left.”
Also: “(Price) is all over the place now,” Melanson added. “At some point, there has to be some accountability in the schoolyard. The position requires a lot of work and Carey hasn’t been consistent. He let things slide in practice and it caught up to him during games.”
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Melanson was Montreal goalie coach before Groulx and this is what he has to say when Groulx was fired by Montreal in 2013. This is crazy since Groulx is here in Ottawa all goalie deteriorate. From Anderson to Hammond to Condon to Gustavsson to Hogberg to Murray.

Edit: forgot Gustavsson

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

I actually wanted to make this thread this morning. I can get Murray having trouble but wtf happened to Hogberg since last season. The only thing I can understand is that since hes now an NHLer so now he has spent more time with the goalie coach and that's f***ing him up.

Its no surprise that Chris Dreidger is on the verge of become a really good NHL goalie and all he had to do was leave this organization and coach.

 

[BondraTime]

I actually wanted to make this thread this morning. I can get Murray having trouble but wtf happened to Hogberg since last season. The only thing I can understand is that since hes now an NHLer so now he has spent more time with the goalie coach and that's f***ing him up.

Its no surprise that Chris Dreidger is on the verge of become a really good NHL goalie and all he had to do was leave this organization and coach.

What happened?

We have a team that's Basically Rossy competing with Wal-Mart.

No goalies, none, would look good on this team. We have 2 average, at best, goalies. When we are throwing out a cast of knock offs, of course the brand names are going to have their way with us.

 

[Matsens15]

I actually wanted to make this thread this morning. I can get Murray having trouble but wtf happened to Hogberg since last season. The only thing I can understand is that since hes now an NHLer so now he has spent more time with the goalie coach and that's f***ing him up.

Its no surprise that Chris Dreidger is on the verge of become a really good NHL goalie and all he had to do was leave this organization and coach.

Correct. If you take a look at Pierre Groulx career. All goalie that was under is wings deteriorate after they have work with him. They become better or their old self when they were with another goalie coach or another formation after. This is crazy!!

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

What happened?

We have a team that's Basically Rossy competing with Wal-Mart.

No goalies, none, would look good on this team. We have 2 average, at best, goalies. When we are throwing out a cast of knock offs, of course the brand names are going to have their way with us.

I get that, but some of these goals that they are letting in are just so weak.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I'm not defending Groulx, but this critique is ridiculous.

He came on in 2016-2017

Anderson at that point was 35, and had his last great season. His SVP over the next few seasons was around .900. Probably just a bit over. We're talking about a goalie between the ages of 36-38. We're faulting Groulx for age?

Hammond was an absolute flash in the pan. He followed up his cinderella run with a .914SVP and 2.65GAA, though, and then got injured... he played 31 games over the next two seasons. We're faulting Groulx for injury?

Condon, too - this guy was a .900SVP goalie before he came here, and then he posted a .914 in Groulx's first season. Then, well, he went back to .902 and, like Hammond, suffered a major injury that limited him to 14 professional games - 2 NHL, 8 AHL, and 4 ECHL. Again - we're faulting Groulx for injury?

Then we have Hogberg, who steadily improved throughout his time in the AHL and then had a pretty impressive showing last season in the NHL. 4 games in behind a terrible defense, he's been ruined by Groulx - the only goalie coach he's had at the North American pro level, who oversaw his development from mid 3rd rounder to NHL goalie?

And what about Nilsson? Nilsson came in and played his best NHL hockey behind the worst team he's ever played for. If not for his injury, he's on our team right now.

As for Murray... this is a guy coming off a season in which he was outperformed by .022SVP by a guy who really isn't that good. Now he's behind a terrible team and getting lit up, and Groulx is supposed to have ruined him? Everyone knew Murray had mechanical issues that needed to be sorted out. He's been here for what, a month?

I have never wanted Murray because I don't think this is the right environment for him to build his game back up, but if I'm a goalie coach I'd be thrilled at the chance to work with him. Early in his career, especially, he was a goalie coaches dream. Very few guys rely on mechanics more than Murray, and his fix will be in getting back to the fundamentals. If Groulx is the guy to do it or not is a question I don't have the answer to, but blaming him for not immediately fixing complex, deeply-seated issues is absurd.

 

[Matsens15]

What happened?

We have a team that's Basically Rossy competing with Wal-Mart.

No goalies, none, would look good on this team. We have 2 average, at best, goalies. When we are throwing out a cast of knock offs, of course the brand names are going to have their way with us.

I understand your point. But you have to admit that he’s bad. Just look at his career and goalie that he worked with... they all have bad seasons with him and become better after he leaves...

 

[Matsens15]

I

I'm not defending Groulx, but this critique is ridiculous.

He came on in 2016-2017

Anderson at that point was 35, and had his last great season. His SVP over the next few seasons was around .900. Probably just a bit over. We're talking about a goalie between the ages of 36-38. We're faulting Groulx for age?

Hammond was an absolute flash in the pan. He followed up his cinderella run with a .914SVP and 2.65GAA, though, and then got injured... he played 31 games over the next two seasons. We're faulting Groulx for injury?

Condon, too - this guy was a .900SVP goalie before he came here, and then he posted a .914 in Groulx's first season. Then, well, he went back to .902 and, like Hammond, suffered a major injury that limited him to 14 professional games - 2 NHL, 8 AHL, and 4 ECHL. Again - we're faulting Groulx for injury?

Then we have Hogberg, who steadily improved throughout his time in the AHL and then had a pretty impressive showing last season in the NHL. 4 games in behind a terrible defense, he's been ruined by Groulx - the only goalie coach he's had at the North American pro level, who oversaw his development from mid 3rd rounder to NHL goalie?

And what about Nilsson? Nilsson came in and played his best NHL hockey behind the worst team he's ever played for. If not for his injury, he's on our team right now.

As for Murray... this is a guy coming off a season in which he was outperformed by .022SVP by a guy who really isn't that good. Now he's behind a terrible team and getting lit up, and Groulx is supposed to have ruined him? Everyone knew Murray had mechanical issues that needed to be sorted out. He's been here for what, a month?

I have never wanted Murray because I don't think this is the right environment for him to build his game back up, but if I'm a goalie coach I'd be thrilled at the chance to work with him. Early in his career, especially, he was a goalie coaches dream. Very few guys rely on mechanics more than Murray, and his fix will be in getting back to the fundamentals. If Groulx is the guy to do it or not is a question I don't have the answer to, but blaming him for not immediately fixing complex, deeply-seated issues is absurd.

I’m not saying Groulx is the problem but in my opinion he’s a big part of the problem. Just look at what Melanson said...

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

I

I’m not saying Groulx is the problem but in my opinion he’s a big part of the problem. Just look at what Melanson said...

Your only piece of evidence is a quote from 7 years ago. Everything else you've presented has a far more logical explanation. If anything, and this is a big piece of conjecture, the question would be why goalies get injured so much under Groulx. But I suspect that's coincidence/unrelated.

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

 

[Matsens15]

Your only piece of evidence is a quote from 7 years ago. Everything else you've presented has a far more logical explanation.

7 years is not that far he was hired 4 years ago. That’s only 3 years after what Melanson said...

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

7 years is not that far he was hired 4 years ago. That’s only 3 years after what Melanson said...

4 + 3 = ?