Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by MartyMarts, Jun 28, 2017.
Crosby and Forsberg. Incredible 1-2 monster.
#1 Forsberg - the greatest of this group to watch for me
#2 Fedorov - really liked him in Detroit,great un the secondary role but always able to be the #1 (same applies to Malkin,but this is my Detroit homer pick..I didn't choose Yzermsn,so I have to choose Fedorov )
OMG,... Post #28. I'm the only one to choose Joe Sakic & Steve Yzerman.
Malkin/Forsberg (Leaning towards Malkin)
(This is if I dont know that they will be hurt as much as they in reality were if that's the case I would pick Crosby+Sakic/Yzerman leaning towards Sakic).
So two different answers really. Can tell you this much wouldnt pick Fedorov since Forsberg was just a better version of him.
They were VERY different styles of player!
Crosby and Forsberg for me.
Assuming full health, Crosby and Forsberg.
Nope. Me too. Possibly Sakic/Crosby.
If injuries/motivational issues are exluded, and I get peak form.
Forsberg/Crosby or Forsberg/Fedorov.
In terms of how I personally evaluate these 6 players in terms of their respective prime years, it's probably like this:
Yzerman / Sakic
Fedorov / Malkin
(sorry to the Russians)
As to which two I'd take for a team, it would obviously depend on the particular needs of the team I'm starting, but it would be hard not to take Cros and Fors.
Personally I split these players up into two categories - The leaders and the skill players. While some fit into both, I view the leaders as Yzerman, Crosby, and Sakic, while the skill players where therefore be Malkin, Forsberg, and Fedorov. I think this involves a bit of recency bias, but I'm going to take Crosby and Malkin. IMO the other tandems had better teams around them when they won their cups. Yzerman/Fedorov had Larionov, Fetisov, Kozlov, Shanahan, Lidstrom, Hull, Robataille, Chelios, and Datsyuk. Sakic/Forsberg had Kamensky, Foote, Roy, Hejduk, Tanguay, Bourque and Blake.
The only players of similar calibre Crosby/Malkin had on their cup wining teams were Fleury, Kessel, and Letang. That's pretty much the reason why my pick is Crosby/Malkin.
But Crosby/Malkin are also beating weaker teams than those teams played against. There aren't any really stacked teams anymore.
I didn't pick Forsberg because his injuries are an inherent risk of his style of play. Petr protected the puck with his body and would crouch and absorb hits. I always feared he'd bust a gut and indeed he did (ruptured spleen) to go along with rib, shoulder and hip injuries.
(Similarly, Adam Deadmarsh was injury prone due to his style of play, which was very different than Forsberg's but equally damaging; Deader threw his body into checks everywhere on the ice with wild abandon that was a pleasure to watch but scary at times in terms of bodily risk.)
I'll take Crosby and Yzerman, assuming they're healthy, and if injuries are a factor, give me Malkin in Crosby's place.
This statement made me curious, Malkin isn't exactly ironman.
Accordingly the other duos had much better supporting casts.
The Avs duo contributed as much or more of their teams offense. Wings were clearly deeper and rolled lines to a larger degree.
Fedorov: I guess there are a number of opinions that simply weren't informed by watching hockey in the 90s...Because Sergei Fedorov a two-time Selke winner (while scoring over a 100 points) was something special to watch. Best skater in the league, could play as a defenceman (as deemed acceptable by Scotty Bowman) and was absolutely relentless against opposition and always seemed like he could score more if he wanted to and often times scored when his team needed him to. His playoff scoring average was superb as well.
Crosby: With a 100+ point Selke winning best skater (maybe in the history of hockey) secured as my second line centre, I'd take Sidney Crosby as my first. Call it will, skill, whatever...Crosby's back to back Conn Smythes supporting the rest of his trophy case and his post-season scoring record make his selection as a number one centre as certain as it can be given the pool. And while I see positives in the best games Forsberg, Sakic and Yzerman, I'd be waxing nostalgic if I denied Crosby's numbers commensurate with his generation's and those previous - with all due respect.
The amount of offense contributed respectively by each duo has nothing to do with what I said. Sakic and Forsberg were not carrying an underdog Avs team all those years. They were in fact one of the stacked teams that the other poster was referring to. Whether one thinks the teams are or are not more evenly matched in the Cap era should not affect how each player is measured.
But on the topic of scoring distribution, where I see a difference between the Avs duo and the Pens duo is the PPG of the next best scorers on their teams.
From 96 to 04, the other Top Ten scorers on the AVs had an average PPG of 0.74.
From 07 to 17, the other Top Ten scorers on the Pens had an average PPG of 0.58
That shows a clear difference in the level of support each duo had although the 96-04 period was slightly lower scoring so it's closer to .74 to .60.
If no injuries, Crosby/Forsberg.
They missed a lot of games (LTIR: long term injured reserve)
If we're starting from scratch a lot of those injuries could easily not happen, especially in Crosby's case where a lot of his seemed to be bad luck. I'd also take my chances with Forsberg and tell him to tone it down a bit in the regular season while saving his best for the playoffs, and at his best him and Crosby are the best playoff centers since the late 90s.
Avs were always favorites vs DET and DAL?
You don't think the post-lockout Pens have generally been favorites vs anyone in the East but maybe Caps?
Not sure where you're trying to head with this. I, too, think Avs were better than Pens, but, they still scored less both in raw (3.02 g/gp vs 2.99 g/gp) and relative (1st vs 2nd (DPE Wings)) numbers, which probably means their average competition was much stronger.
Most of the names you use were linemates of Forsberg/Sakic, you can just as easily say they elevated their linemates to a larger degree.
Forsberg and Yzerman.
Temped to go with Sakic, but i like Forsberg's aggressive way of playing. And Yzerman will be the leader and the star of the team.
Separate names with a comma.