Phoenix CVII: Can yet the lease of my true love control

[MoreOrr]

I think it got to do with the fact that they may already have two more fire to put out. This is Atlanta all over again, they wanted to kick the ball down the road in Arizona because somebody else is moving.

Wasn't the asking price in Carolina $400mil ?

There is no other fire out there anywhere that compares to what has gone on in Arizona.

 

[cbcwpg]

All of you make it sound as though these potential owners in Las Vegas and Quebec City are the most naive people on the planet. I've been reading this train of thought for weeks and it still baffles me that any of you or the League thinks that whatever has been transpiring in Glendale is fooling anyone in the know. It's totally ridiculous! If these potential owners in QC and LV want an NHL franchise so bad so as to pay $500mil, the Coyotes being relocated to Portland for half that value isn't going to change a damn thing, because anyone and his dog that have been paying any attention to what's gone on in Arizona should already damn well know that that franchise is a one-legged dog just begging its owners to put it down. And if the Coyotes got relocated to Portland for significantly less than $500mil, and LV and QC then said: OK, we're not paying the League $500mil,.... then the League could just say: OK, you're not get an expansion franchise then, but expansion franchises cost a whole lot more than selling off a one-legged franchise in Arizona. At least QC, if not both, would then come begging: OK, OK, we'll pay your $500mil. But it wouldn't go that way anyway, because those potential owners already know that the Coyotes are a mess.

No, this has zero to do with messing up the expansion bid that has already taken place. But it may have something to do with the League asking Seattle for $500mil to have the Coyotes relocated there. The League now has 2 years to hope that either Seattle or the Toronto area gets an arena ready and is willing to pay close to that $500mil mark, or else they'll just have to take whatever is being offered by the highest bidder to finally get the Coyotes out Arizona.

End of Rant!

And what if this deal between the CoG and IA doesn't happen? And the CoG kicks the Coyotes to the curb. Maybe unlikely but it could have happened.. And then the NHL needs a home for the Coyotes on short notice. Well on short notice the only city that could take the Coyotes would have been QC. So sure the NHL could go to QC and say it's going to cost you $500MM to relocate the Coyotes, but no way does QC pay that. Not when you have the NHL in a bind and they know it. Why do you think TNSE got such a good deal to buy the Thrashers? Because TNSE had the NHL by the short and curlies and Bettman knew it, so TNSE got a discount. It's in the NHLs interest to keep teams where they are until expansion is done.

 

[knorthern knight]

I'm somewhat cynical about this "deal". I occasionally get flyers in the mail from Rogers Cable. It shows a great monthly price for a TV-plus-internet package. There's an asterisk beside the price. Looking at fine-print the bottom of the flyer, I see that the price is valid for the first 3 months of a 2-year contract, and regular (i.e. downright expensive) pricing kicks in on month 4.

IA gets $6.5 million AMF for the first year. The asterisk points to some fine print saying that the AMF may go to zero for the second year of a two year deal.

There's one question I have. If IA/NHL came to COG and said that they couldn't go on financially without the AMF, would COG be amenable to dissolving the contract/lease after the first year, and allow for relocation next summer?

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Doesn't IA need the 6.5 million dollars as arena managers?

Who knows? We all talk about the AMF as if it were pure revenue, but if they Coyotes don't get an AMF, it also means they are not spending any capital on anything outside of rent and hockey events. That also means that they are not responsible for capital improvements on the facility either. So the Coyotes' financial losses sans the AMF may not be as high as we believe.

 

[MoreOrr]

And what if this deal between the CoG and IA doesn't happen? And the CoG kicks the Coyotes to the curb. Maybe unlikely but it could have happened.. And then the NHL needs a home for the Coyotes on short notice. Well on short notice the only city that could take the Coyotes would have been QC. So sure the NHL could go to QC and say it's going to cost you $500MM to relocate the Coyotes, but no way does QC pay that. Not when you have the NHL in a bind and they know it. Why do you think TNSE got such a good deal to buy the Thrashers? Because TNSE had the NHL by the short and curlies and Bettman knew it, so TNSE got a discount. It's in the NHLs interest to keep teams where they are until expansion is done.

Has someone actually heard that Portland was no longer in the market to take the Coyotes out of Arizona? Maybe that is in fact the case, but I haven't read any such thing.

And as a joke with no punchline... I'm sure Hamilton would take the Coyotes. But seriously, Portland was the option that existed just a couple of Seasons ago.

 

[madhi19]

There is no other fire out there anywhere that compares to what has gone on in Arizona.

Not if you don't care about Arizona. If you written off the market as not viable, would you rather do a solid to Viloa. Kick this can down the road again, the IA patsy can bleed for all they care.

 

[robertocarlos]

Good-bye Arizona. It's not sad, it's just business.

PS. The Suns won't save them.

 

[Melrose Munch]

2 years to build a brand new arena? No land, no plan, no $. Hartford has a better chance getting the coyotes than Seattle.

They have land plan and money, starter money. Hartford has an old arena and no owner. Hartford is in the same boat as Hamilton.

 

[robertocarlos]

That is pretty clearly a voluntary end date next year with notice. This deal would not be signed without it.

I think the Yotes can leave after this season. Two years of lame duck would be a disaster.

 

[MoreOrr]

Not if you don't care about Arizona. If you written off the market as not viable, would you rather do a solid to Viloa. Kick this can down the road again, the IA patsy can bleed for all they care.

When all of this **** first hit the fan and it became public knowledge what Moyes did to that franchise, I was on the Coyotes side and thought that the franchise had gotten a raw deal. But now a whole lot of filthy water has passed under that bridge and anyone not living in dreamland should really have any kind of realistic hope that the Coyotes have a future in Arizona, not without going through a world of many years of $losses until just maybe sometime in a distant future things might get turned around. There is no owner who will want to live through those kinds of losses until that hopefully happens.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I think it got to do with the fact that they may already have two more fire to put out. This is Atlanta all over again, they wanted to kick the ball down the road in Arizona because somebody else is moving.

Not if you don't care about Arizona. If you written off the market as not viable, would you rather do a solid to Viloa. Kick this can down the road again, the IA patsy can bleed for all they care.

When all of this **** first hit the fan and it became public knowledge what Moyes did to that franchise, I was on the Coyotes side and thought that the franchise had gotten a raw deal. But now a whole lot of filthy water has passed under that bridge and anyone not living in dreamland should really have any kind of realistic hope that the Coyotes have a future in Arizona, not without going through a world of many years of $losses until just maybe sometime in a distant future things might get turned around. There is no owner who will want to live through those kinds of losses until that hopefully happens.

Has someone actually heard that Portland was no longer in the market to take the Coyotes out of Arizona? Maybe that is in fact the case, but I haven't read any such thing.

And as a joke with no punchline... I'm sure Hamilton would take the Coyotes. But seriously, Portland was the option that existed just a couple of Seasons ago.

This... A Billion times this. This is a one time Billion dollar deal and the last thing Gary needs is to have to relocate the Coyotes ( or anyone else ) to either Las Vegas or Quebec City until those two franchises are underway and the existing owners have all cashed their ~$33MM expansion cheques.

Just me and speculating ....but I would imagine that word came down from up top to IA from the NHL to " do a deal and don't screw this up for expansion. Give the CoG whatever they want and we will have something on the table for you in two years. "

Cbcwpg has it. This was never about denying canada. The NHL didn't want expansion messed. The coyotes moving messed that up. Now, they got 1 billion, so the coyotes can bounce and they will say they did everything they could.

I think the Yotes can leave after this season. Two years of lame duck would be a disaster.

I agree. How will he NHL be able to return to the market at a future date if they did so?

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I think the Yotes can leave after this season. Two years of lame duck would be a disaster.

no, the lease deal ends prior to FY 17/18.

 

[MoreOrr]

Cbcwpg has it. This was never about denying canada. The NHL didn't want expansion messed. The coyotes moving messed that up. Now, they got 1 billion, so the coyotes can bounce and they will say they did everything they could.

Those two bidders would've bid that asking amount regardless, because they wanted an NHL franchise that bad.

Perhaps it wasn't just the asking amount of $500mil that kept other bidders away, but in fact the well-known reality of the Coyotes that kept other bidders from thinking that an NHL expansion franchise is worth that much.

Only those who really want it bad enough need apply!

 

[Glacial]

Cbcwpg has it. This was never about denying canada. The NHL didn't want expansion messed. The coyotes moving messed that up. Now, they got 1 billion, so the coyotes can bounce and they will say they did everything they could.


I agree. How will he NHL be able to return to the market at a future date if they did so?

Well, as of now, they only have what, $10 million? The hundreds of millions (not sure they collect the $500M a piece) doesn't enter their coffers until they formally approve expansion, put out their hands before Quebec & Vegas and say "Gimme Gimme Gimme".


I'm wondering what Plan B or C is now if Seattle never comes together? Milwaukee? (bumping out/becoming the new Admirals) If they approve their arena (continent on it having ice of course), doesn't that lower the odds of Seattle getting their arena approved since the potential of getting the Bucks to be the new Sonics was what was driving that process? Portland?

That's the exact reason in my opinion why only 2 made a bid, there are 3 other teams that could be relocated that would be cheaper than paying 500m

It may also have been anyone besides Vegas & Quebec knew they had arenas under construction so were #s 1 & 2 (or 2 & 1) respectively and there are likely just 2 markets going to get teams so they figured, why waste the bid money when they know at best they'll be #3?

 

[robertocarlos]

no, the lease deal ends prior to FY 17/18.

Yes I see that now. Wow CoG took Yotes to the cleaners short term. Good thing Coyotes get all the popcorn revenue.

 

[MoreOrr]

That's the exact reason in my opinion why only 2 made a bid, there are 3 other teams that could be relocated that would be cheaper than paying 500m

They (those other potential buyers) know that the League is only going to be able to hold on to the Coyotes in Arizona for just so long; there will be an end date. And then, the League will be left with accepting the best offer that they can get at that time. It might even be close to the $500mil mark, since the reality is that any relocated team already puts the franchise at least one step ahead of an expansion franchise. But that'll depend on just how many bidders for a relocated Coyotes they'll be, and just how much they think an NHL franchise is worth to them. I wouldn't imagine that the Coyotes will be relocated for anything more than $350mil, if that.

 

[gstommylee]

They (those other potential buyers) know that the League is only going to be able to hold on to the Coyotes in Arizona for just so long; there will be an end date. And then, the League will be left with accepting the best offer that they can get at that time. It might even be close to the $500mil mark, since the reality is that any relocated team already puts the franchise at least one step ahead of an expansion franchise. But that'll depend on just how many bidders for a relocated Coyotes they'll be, and just how much they think an NHL franchise is worth to them. I wouldn't imagine that the Coyotes will be relocated for anything more than $350mil, if that.

I would agree with 350m with the relocation fee included. I think NHL has something specific in mind for the coyotes. If 500m for team was too much for Ray B and his investors to play in a 500m arena, 350m for a team may be good enough to appease his investors.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Ok, so I've seen that the Coyotes are certainly staying at least 1 year. Can we close these mega threads until the time comes for that speculation?

 

[Glacial]

How does IceArizona even market next season to the fans? Or is that a trick question?

 

[blues10]

Ok, so I've seen that the Coyotes are certainly staying at least 1 year. Can we close these mega threads until the time comes for that speculation?

Isn't this really the beginning? The vote has not even happened.

You can also be pretty sure that the COG puts out an RFP for an arena management agreement for the arena next spring/summer.

Turning out the lights when the party is just getting started isn't very productive.

 

[blues10]

How does IceArizona even market next season to the fans? Or is that a trick question?

"Still in Glendale" - "Here to stay until 2017"

 

[Melrose Munch]

no, the lease deal ends prior to FY 17/18.

Management deal ends next year. 16-17 the coyotes bleed to death.

Those two bidders would've bid that asking amount regardless, because they wanted an NHL franchise that bad.

Perhaps it wasn't just the asking amount of $500mil that kept other bidders away, but in fact the well-known reality of the Coyotes that kept other bidders from thinking that an NHL expansion franchise is worth that much.

Only those who really want it bad enough need apply!

Exactly. They coyotes will not be worth 350m when moving. Why pay high now when you buy lowelater.

Well, as of now, they only have what, $10 million? The hundreds of millions (not sure they collect the $500M a piece) doesn't enter their coffers until they formally approve expansion, put out their hands before Quebec & Vegas and say "Gimme Gimme Gimme".


I'm wondering what Plan B or C is now if Seattle never comes together? Milwaukee? (bumping out/becoming the new Admirals) If they approve their arena (continent on it having ice of course), doesn't that lower the odds of Seattle getting their arena approved since the potential of getting the Bucks to be the new Sonics was what was driving that process? Portland?




It may also have been anyone besides Vegas & Quebec knew they had arenas under construction so were #s 1 & 2 (or 2 & 1) respectively and there are likely just 2 markets going to get teams so they figured, why waste the bid money when they know at best they'll be #3?

Exactly. They have no money now and will not next year. IA will giving everything up within the 90 day window. Plan B is portland and Plan C is Toronto. Or bribe Les Alexander in Houston. 17-18 is enough time for the Seattle group to be ready to go. The whole arena will be almost done by this time next year.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Isn't this really the beginning? The vote has not even happened.

You can also be pretty sure that the COG puts out an RFP for an arena management agreement for the arena next spring/summer.

Turning out the lights when the party is just getting started isn't very productive.

Sorry, I just got home from work. Well, if/when the vote is approved, no, it's not the beginning.

There is already a Seattle thread about getting hockey there. These Coyotes mega threads have been around for ages, and it's just going to be one giant relocation fest in here for the next year, and all speculation. The fact is, the Coyotes are here for another year, and Glendale has the option to try to find another manager for the arena. When it's announced that they are looking for another arena manager, sure, open them back up. But this continues megathread for years has gotten pretty old.

 

[cutchemist42]

This... A Billion times this. This is a one time Billion dollar deal and the last thing Gary needs is to have to relocate the Coyotes ( or anyone else ) to either Las Vegas or Quebec City until those two franchises are underway and the existing owners have all cashed their ~$33MM expansion cheques.

Just me and speculating ....but I would imagine that word came down from up top to IA from the NHL to " do a deal and don't screw this up for expansion. Give the CoG whatever they want and we will have something on the table for you in two years. "

Not even that, but if like a number of users here believe that the NHL actually still runs the show and owns them, they did this themselves knowing they could not screw up that billion dollar infusion.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Not even that, but if like a number of users here believe that the NHL actually still runs the show and owns them, they did this themselves knowing they could not screw up that billion dollar infusion.

Now we have conspiracy theories......