Phoenix CVI: It's good to talk these things out

[Fugu]

Finally.


Are people having trouble seeing the embedded tweets? Llama posted this above all the posts asking for a source.

Either the server is lagging and you missed the earlier post, or the tweets that are embedded aren't showing up for some people.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/john-oliver-missed-the-point-on-coyotes-glendale-071315

 

[goyotes]

These were IceArizona scheduled depositions of Glendale city staff and councilmembers, all of which were cancelled by IceArizona...

Source? Llama, please identify the source that says the depositions were cancelled by iA.

Procedurally, the depositions could have been cancelled by mutual stipulation, or either side. I'm not saying that you statement is factually inaccurate, I have just not seen a source that states IA cancelled the depositions. Please provide your source for you statement "all of which were cancelled by IceArizona."

Thanks

 

[Fugu]

Source? Llama, please identify the source that says the depositions were cancelled by iA.

Procedurally, the depositions could have been cancelled by mutual stipulation, or either side. I'm not saying that you statement is factually inaccurate, I have just not seen a source that states IA cancelled the depositions. Please provide your source for you statement "all of which were cancelled by IceArizona."

Thanks

The tweet says the depositions for/of the council were cancelled.

Is it not safe to assume that each side schedules its own depositions, and thus if they're cancelled for one group, it's the party that required them?

I can't see how COG would cancel having their side attend IA's deposition of them, but continue with their own schedule for IA.

 

[goyotes]

The tweet says the depositions for/of the council were cancelled.

Is it not safe to assume that each side schedules its own depositions, and thus if they're cancelled for one group, it's the party that required them?

I can't see how COG would cancel having their side attend IA's deposition of them, but continue with their own schedule for IA.

No, that is profoundly not a safe assumption. More often than not, depositions by notice are cancelled and rescheduled by that party who is going to be deposed because preparation time, personal calendars, etc. come in to play.

I don't want to make a bigger deal out of this than it is. Perhaps IA did cancel the depositions. The point was, I was simply asking for a source rather than conjecture.

Llama, do you have a source or was the statement based upon your assumption?

The problem with these things is people tend t read into such events, just as Ms. Clark makes some wild speculations about what is happening. It could be as simple as someone became ill or had an issue arise. They may decide to take them next week.

Maybe settlement is being discussed. If that is the case, I submit maybe the City cancelled the depositions because any litigator will tell you your case never gets better once your people are deposed. IA would have very, very little incentive to cancel depositions just so they can table an offer. In fact, you keep the depositions in place so there is a time limit to any demand IA would want to make. That is litigation 101.

 

[Brodie]

I tend to have a problem with this argument as it never really takes into account the social capital that sports generate for a city. The impact of a great facility and a sports team goes beyond just the dollars the city puts in and gets out in revenue/taxes. It would be like arguing the sum total value of a world class restaurant or club to a community consists entirely of the property tax and sales tax it generates. We know that's not true, which is why we build things like parks.

The equation may be tipped in the favor of owners and cities do indeed show too little restraint when it comes to spending on sports. But to pretend like the city gets nothing out of the deal beyond the what the ledger provides is silly.

I don't think this follows at all. Detroit, for example, has teams in all 4 major sports. Two of them play in stadiums built within the last 15 years. All 4 have made the playoffs in that period, 3 have played for titles and 2 have won it all. We've hosted a Super Bowl, Final Four and MLB All Star game in that stretch. Portland has one major pro team (sorry Timbers army) who play in a relatively older arena and hasn't won anything in decades. Which city has more "social capital"? Sports might factor into these equations but it is a minor percentage of a big whole.

 

[CasualFan]

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/john-oliver-missed-the-point-on-coyotes-glendale-071315

Wow, he found the last phone booth in America and ran into it to change into Super Hack!

"Glendale still has to book events and Glendale still has to spend about $6 million per year to manage it, per its own RFPs. We don't have any trouble with Oliver re-opening the publically funded stadium issue. It's fair game, but in the case of the Coyotes, his segment amounted to amusing theater deficient in facts or context."​

Craig, that is ONLY the expense side of the ledger, you dope. The RFPs also documented the REVENUE Glendale would receive from the arena. I know covering an item truthfully rather than just posting nonsense narrative is a strange concept for a hack but there are, in fact, TWO sides to a ledger. Hence, once again Morgan is actually the one posting theater deficient in facts and context.

Also, who is "we"? The byline doesn't have a co-author. Is this hack so insecure that he has to pluralize his bullcrap to give it the appearance of being a consensus? The only good thing that will come if the Coyotes leave Arizona will be this jerk losing what's left of his job. Go bag some groceries, Morgan.

 

[goyotes]

Wow, he found the last phone booth in America and ran into it to change into Super Hack!

"Glendale still has to book events and Glendale still has to spend about $6 million per year to manage it, per its own RFPs. We don't have any trouble with Oliver re-opening the publically funded stadium issue. It's fair game, but in the case of the Coyotes, his segment amounted to amusing theater deficient in facts or context."​

Craig, that is ONLY the expense side of the ledger, you dope. The RFPs also documented the REVENUE Glendale would receive from the arena. I know covering an item truthfully rather than just posting nonsense narrative is a strange concept for a hack but there are, in fact, TWO sides to a ledger. Hence, once again Morgan is actually the one posting theater deficient in facts and context.

Also, who is "we"? The byline doesn't have a co-author. Is this hack so insecure that he has to pluralize his bullcrap to give it the appearance of being a consensus? The only good thing that will come if the Coyotes leave Arizona will be this jerk losing what's left of his job. Go bag some groceries, Morgan.

I like Morgan on some of his on-ice stories, but you are right CF, this was an "article" that was extremely misleading. Slow news day I guess....

 

[Whileee]

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/john-oliver-missed-the-point-on-coyotes-glendale-071315

When a "journalist" misleads readers as badly as Craig Morgan continues to do, it makes you wonder whether his next job might actually be with Ice Arizona...

The point, in the case of the Coyotes, is that John Oliver missed the point. The stadium already exists. The public money was spent long ago to build Glendale Arena, which became Jobing.com Arena, then Gila River Arena. You can't suddenly make the arena disappear.

Glendale still has to book events and Glendale still has to spend about $6 million per year to manage it, per its own RFPs. We don't have any trouble with Oliver re-opening the publically funded stadium issue. It's fair game, but in the case of the Coyotes, his segment amounted to amusing theater deficient in facts or context.

He conveniently omits that fact that in addition to the ongoing arena debt Glendale is paying an exorbitant "arena management fee" that is a larger annual cost than the arena debt. I don't mind journalists having an opinion, but skewing the facts is going too far.

 

[Pilky01]

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/john-oliver-missed-the-point-on-coyotes-glendale-071315

After his three throwaway intro "paragraphs" there are like 6 sentences to this article.

Anyway, just watched the bit. Hopefully this helps to smarten up the general populace, but for some reason I still don't think we are about to see Fox News complaining about this kind of corporate welfare.

 

[JimAnchower]

When a "journalist" misleads readers as badly as Craig Morgan continues to do, it makes you wonder whether his next job might actually be with Ice Arizona...



He conveniently omits that fact that in addition to the ongoing arena debt Glendale is paying an exorbitant "arena management fee" that is a larger annual cost than the arena debt. I don't mind journalists having an opinion, but skewing the facts is going too far.

Somewhere right now, Hocking is nodding approval to Morgan's article.

 

[Roadrage]

Wow, he found the last phone booth in America and ran into it to change into Super Hack!

"Glendale still has to book events and Glendale still has to spend about $6 million per year to manage it, per its own RFPs. We don't have any trouble with Oliver re-opening the publically funded stadium issue. It's fair game, but in the case of the Coyotes, his segment amounted to amusing theater deficient in facts or context."​

Craig, that is ONLY the expense side of the ledger, you dope. The RFPs also documented the REVENUE Glendale would receive from the arena. I know covering an item truthfully rather than just posting nonsense narrative is a strange concept for a hack but there are, in fact, TWO sides to a ledger. Hence, once again Morgan is actually the one posting theater deficient in facts and context.

Also, who is "we"? The byline doesn't have a co-author. Is this hack so insecure that he has to pluralize his bullcrap to give it the appearance of being a consensus? The only good thing that will come if the Coyotes leave Arizona will be this jerk losing what's left of his job. Go bag some groceries, Morgan.

I thought a reporter so close to the situation would realize that Glendale isn't responsible for booking events but the arena manager which in this case is IA.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Also, who is "we"? The byline doesn't have a co-author.

It's interesting irony that he chose to use the editorial plural considering that Fox Sports Arizona let him go this month.

Look, I'm as desperate as the next Coyote fan for allies but 250 words' worth of "Nuh-UHHHHHHHH" rebuttal does nobody any favors.

 

[Whileee]

It's interesting irony that he chose to use the editorial plural considering that Fox Sports Arizona let him go this month.

Look, I'm as desperate as the next Coyote fan for allies but 250 words' worth of "Nuh-UHHHHHHHH" rebuttal does nobody any favors.

Compared to Morgan's weak and false ditty, Oliver's spoofy rant looked like a PBS documentary. I loved how Oliver pulled in BeavisPAC's #1 assassin with the taser incident. It's all been almost too humorous to believe.

 

[TheLegend]

I thought a reporter so close to the situation would realize that Glendale isn't responsible for booking events but the arena manager which in this case is IA.

It's Glendale's building.

Ultimately they are responsible for operating the building, either by doing it themselves, or hiring someone to do it for them.

 

[CasualFan]

It's Glendale's building.

Ultimately they are responsible for operating the building, either by doing it themselves, or hiring someone to do it for them.

Right. But under the without Coyotes RFPs, do you think the city might make some revenue from the operation or do they pay $6MM a year then just walk away going "aww shucks"? Is Morgan deficient in facts and context by reporting just the expense number?

 

[Whileee]

Right. But under the without Coyotes RFPs, do you think the city might make some revenue from the operation or do they pay $6MM a year then just walk away going "aww shucks"? Is Morgan deficient in facts and context by reporting just the expense number?

...and by neglecting to mention the full AMF?

Here is Morgan's conclusion, which is the height of irony....

It's fair game, but in the case of the Coyotes, his segment amounted to amusing theater deficient in facts or context.

 

[OthmarAmmann]

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/john-oliver-missed-the-point-on-coyotes-glendale-071315

https://www.google.com/search?q=sun...v=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-US&norc=1&zx=1436830423038

Don't expect Morgan to be published in the Journal of Finance anytime soon

 

[CasualFan]

https://www.google.com/search?q=sun...v=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en-US&norc=1&zx=1436830423038

Don't expect Morgan to be published in the Journal of Finance anytime soon

It's kind of funny that he has dedicated pages to the revenue that IA sends to Glendale to offset the AMF but not so much on the without-team RFPs. I guess he's flexible on when basic Econ principles apply.

 

[Llama19]

Warning Signs That Team Values Have Peaked

To quote:

"But with controlling owner Andrew Barroway not fulfilling his equity contribution and reducing his stake in the team the $305 million price he paid seems a lot less bullish for the NHL than it did six months ago."

Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2015/07/08/warning-signs-that-team-values-have-peaked/

 

[GF]

Warning Signs That Team Values Have Peaked

To quote:

"But with controlling owner Andrew Barroway not fulfilling his equity contribution and reducing his stake in the team the $305 million price he paid seems a lot less bullish for the NHL than it did six months ago."

Source: http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2015/07/08/warning-signs-that-team-values-have-peaked/

Yep and Bettman think a new franchise is worth 500mm$. Yeah right.

 

[spellchecker45]

Just saw this on the sportsnet app. It is hilarious and interesting at the same time. Don't know if it was posted somewhere else but I thought it was a funny take on the coyotes end of things.

 

[Killion]

I like Morgan on some of his on-ice stories, but you are right CF, this was an "article" that was extremely misleading. Slow news day I guess....

This guys a sell~out. Disinformation Officer. Quizzling.

 

[goyotes]

Yep and Bettman think a new franchise is worth 500mm$. Yeah right.

Respected TV sports guy in Phoenix tweeting that CoG and Coyotes may have renegotiated new AMF and lease. Jude LeCava of Fox 10. Take it for what it is worth.

 

[TheLegend]

Yep and Bettman think a new franchise is worth 500mm$. Yeah right.

Not Bettman..... the 30 or so owners.