Confirmed with Link: Phil Kessel traded - Part IV

[FlareKnight]

I am trying to figure out what is making people upset

Is it that Kapanen isn't Maata or Pouliot?
Kapanen seems to be very high on everything that this organization wants (smarts, speed, skill - his shot is off, according to his draft profile on TSN). and he's young and can be developed within the system.

Is it because Harrington isn't a blue chip himself?
Okay, that's fair, but if he can provide 22 minutes of solid defense, and buys into Babcock's system, is that horrendous?

Is that we had to retain?
well I think the obvious choice was to take cap dumps but the cap dumps didn't want to come here. (everyone who has a questionable contract had a No Trade/Move, and
the Leafs were on it).

Is it that we had to give up the 2nd?
okay, but Pittsburgh didn't want to have first 2 rounds being pick-less. (one could even argue this builds better trade relations. I don't know).

Is it that we had to double protect the 1st rounder?
everyone protects the first rounder. What I'm not understanding is why we don't get a 1st period, so that is the eyebrow raiser for me.

I am really trying to be open minded here - because other than not having "elite talent" coming back (to which the argument was 6 years ago the 1st rounders were supposed to be, middle of the pack, and see how Boston developed them). And it looks like to me that's exactly what we got back. (PLUS cap space, PLUS a rebuilding structure PLUS a new financial dichotomy with in the organization - our highest paid player (on Forward) is Nathan Horton).

Why, not I'll take a crack at it. Will get ripped for it later, but oh well. Such is the way it goes on forums.

Is it that Kapanen isn't Maata or Pouliot?
Honestly, I don't care on this one. I'm not worried who he isn't. Solid skillset. Though ironic that our big part of this trade is a guy with inconsistent effort levels. Sounds a bit like someone we were pretty desperate to get rid of yesterday. Odds seem pretty good for a second line winger which is fine, you do need those.

Is it because Harrington isn't a blue chip himself?
I shrug on this one. It's nice to have, but you can also sign those guys pretty simply on the UFA market. Don't feel it's a plus or a negative, just saves us a bit of time signing someone to do the same job.

Is that we had to retain?
I'll certainly go with yeah on that one. If the cap dumps didn't want to go here then keep looking. Since when did it have to be the Pens or bust? In the end it's like taking on a buyout which rarely anyone will like. You are spending cap for him not to play here.

Is it that we had to give up the 2nd?
I can understand why the Pens wanted their second back, I don't understand why we gave it up. Or why we bent over backwards in several respects of this trade.

Is it that we had to double protect the 1st rounder?
We certainly don't protect them....Plus I rarely hear about anyone lotto protecting their picks, much less double protecting them.


In the end I think we got a pretty sorry return. Oh well, such is life for the Leafs. I think it's possible to be fine with moving forward with the rebuild and also think we did a poor trading our best player. Here's hoping that Kapanen turns out really well and we luck out with the first (or whatever we trade it for).

At least this move sets the expectations low going forward. We'll trade the core, but they won't be good trades. Just have to hope all the losing will lead to success down the road.

Click to read more...

 

[Mess]

James Mirtle on Kessel

Mirtle: Leafs viewed dumping Kessel as essential to their rebuild

Brendan Shanahan didn’t want Phil Kessel.

There’s really no other way to read into what happened on Canada Day than that. The Toronto Maple Leafs went into the two weeks after the Stanley Cup final if not hell-bent then at least incredibly determined to trade their top scorer.

Even if the return was underwhelming. As it was.

Kasperi Kapanen is a fine prospect. You always want to add first-round picks, too – although preferably they wouldn’t be as heavily lottery protected as the one the Leafs got from Pittsburgh is. And who knows on Scott Harrington, a 22-year-old defensive prospect whose career screams NHL-AHL tweener?

But combined with the fact the Leafs (a) will have $8.4-million of Kessel’s salary on their cap the next seven years and (b) that they threw in a second-round pick and (c) that they didn’t get one of the Penguins top two prospects (defencemen Olli Maatta and Derrick Pouliot) and (d) they paid Kessel’s $4-million bonus on July 1, well, let’s just say the return here was not substantial.

Continued: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ild/article25224289/?cmpid=rss1&click=dlvr.it

 

[Daisy Jane]

Why, not I'll take a crack at it. Will get ripped for it later, but oh well. Such is the way it goes on forums.

Obviously. IT SUCKS FLARE! (I'm kidding)


Is it that Kapanen isn't Maata or Pouliot?
Honestly, I don't care on this one. I'm not worried who he isn't. Solid skillset. Though ironic that our big part of this trade is a guy with inconsistent effort levels. Sounds a bit like someone we were pretty desperate to get rid of yesterday. Odds seem pretty good for a second line winger which is fine, you do need those.[/quote]

He's 18 though. His coach (Mikka Kiupersoff) flat out said he just needs a good firm coach to put him in line, and he'll listen and do the work. Keefe and Babcock works for me. we'll see

Is it because Harrington isn't a blue chip himself?
I shrug on this one. It's nice to have, but you can also sign those guys pretty simply on the UFA market. Don't feel it's a plus or a negative, just saves us a bit of time signing someone to do the same job.

He's also 22, and can still be moulded though. but that's fair. neutral works.

Is that we had to retain?
I'll certainly go with yeah on that one. If the cap dumps didn't want to go here then keep looking. Since when did it have to be the Pens or bust? In the end it's like taking on a buyout which rarely anyone will like. You are spending cap for him not to play here.

As it was stated throughout 3 threads. with only 8 teams to work with - there really is no where else to look there was only 1. and I don't know how 1 year extra changes that. (and then we're going to hope that Phil will change his mind and hopefully expands his list - and he said he didn't want to go). ANY team (according to Shanahan) who inquired, wanted them to hold on to money. (some reports were saying money AND dumps). 1.2 million for 7 years for a team that shouldn't be a cap team is the lesser of two evils.

but we'll agree to disagree here

Is it that we had to give up the 2nd?
I can understand why the Pens wanted their second back, I don't understand why we gave it up. Or why we bent over backwards in several respects of this trade.

I don't see where we bent over backwards. but again. agree to disagree

Is it that we had to double protect the 1st rounder?
We certainly don't protect them....Plus I rarely hear about anyone lotto protecting their picks, much less double protecting them.

Most 1st round picks that have that "danger" missing out that have been exchanged has been lottery protected. other ones that have been moved out (have been teams that have been super deep (ie: NYR, Tampa, etc). LA for example protected their 1st rounder from the lottery.

and we haven't traded our 1st round pick in years.

Like I said - maybe I can't see it, or I am just looking at all the factors, and I feel that this was the right time to move Phil. I can understand and respect if people feel differently.

 

[Smif]

Comparing the 2nd Rd pick we gave up and the 3rd we rec'd:

In 2015 Pittsburgh's 2nd was 46th OV, New Jersey's 3rd was 67th, so we're all upset about 21 spots in the draft here.

Pittsburgh surprisingly picked a lot higher than usual because they had a ridiculous amount of injuries to their D, with this trade you could argue that they're now significantly better this year. What has NJ done so far this offseason? I don't see them being much better if at all.

We lost 20ish spots in the draft, big deal.

 

[Mess]

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/phil-kessel-traded-to-penguins-by-leafs-reports-1.3134692

The Phil Kessel era is over in Toronto.

The Toronto Maple Leafs moved their leading scorer to the Pittsburgh Penguins in exchange for prospects Kasperi Kapanen and Scott Harrington, a 2016 first-round pick, a 2016 third-round pick and a salary dump in forward Nick Spaling one hour into the NHL’s free agency period on Canada Day.

The Leafs also gave up a 2016 second-round pick, Tyler Biggs and Tim Erixon.

Toronto also retained $1.25-million in salary – or 15 per cent of the cap hit – in the seven remaining years of Kessel’s contract in order to get the trade completed.

Pittsburgh's first-round pick in the deal is conditional on the Penguins making the playoffs and would become a 2017 first- or second-rounder if they don't.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I think everyone needs to take a step back and put themselves in the shoes of GMs around the league.

Kessel's a natural sniper, but his reputation precedes him, and we know that better than anyone. If he's not scoring, he is an absolute liability on the ice. Now, factor in his age, and the fact that he has seven years remaining on one of the most expensive contracts in the league, in an era wherein teams have to be more conscious of their cap space than ever before.

Would you be willing to offer your top 2 prospects and a first rounder for Kessel, even with 1.2 million in salary retained? I seriously doubt it, and other teams obviously felt the same way.

Under the circumstances, I think we got a pretty good haul of assets.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I think they just didn't want to have any exceptions moving forward.

"The Leafs are going to be outstanding members of the community. Except Phil. He's shy so he doesn't have to speak to anyone".

"The Leafs are going to be expected to be hardworking on the ice and committed to both ends of the rink. Except Phil. He's just gonna hang out at the blueline and wait for breakout passes".

"The Leafs are going to extremely well conditioned and fit. Except Phil. He's just gonna skate 4-5 times in the summer and take half of it off."

You can't preach those sorts of things to a young group, while one of them clearly isn't doing them. Especially when that one is your best player.

 

[Stephen]

It's basically guaranteeing the Leafs pick no higher than 15 and no lower than 45. Kind of annoying Pittsburgh put that in.

 

[xyzz]

It's basically guaranteeing the Leafs pick no higher than 15 and no lower than 45. Kind of annoying Pittsburgh put that in.

although a pick between 15 and 30 is most likely (by far)

 

[Stephen]

although a pick between 15 and 30 is most likely (by far)

Yep most likely. But worst case scenario would be 45ish.

Damn that David Perron trade.

 

[ULF_55]

\
Is it that we had to double protect the 1st rounder?
everyone protects the first rounder. What I'm not understanding is why we don't get a 1st period, so that is the eyebrow raiser for me.

Maybe they wanted the pick before 2018.

So if the Penguins miss the playoffs the next 2 years Leafs don't get a first, but they don't give up a 2nd.

The difference between a playoff team's 1st. and a non-playoff team's 2nd. plus another 2nd. isn't that much.

This year Leafs traded a 1st. for a 2nd. and 3rd. right?

This would be similar to trading a 1st. for two 2nd's.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Yep most likely. But worst case scenario would be 45ish.

Damn that David Perron trade.

basically.

but we can always use it to move up, or whatever. or try to find steals. it really looks like Hunter and crew (maybe McCrimmon if he comes next year) don't care where we pick,just get the best person (in terms of sleepers, or undervalued for reasons) and make them work in our system and we can use them either as cannon fodder in a trade or they pop for us.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

could the leafs gotten a better deal for kessel? probably. but the return is not as bad as some people think.

We got two 1sts for him (Kapanen and 2016 1st). This in itself is good. can't believe people are so quick to right kapanen off. yea he took a step back (maybe, not sure?) in his development this past year, but the kid is 18. that right, 18. give him time. IIRC, kapanen was considered a steal at the time where pittsburgh picked him.

people keep laughing at the fact we retained money. its such a miniscule amount at 1.2M. and if the cap keeps going way up, the retained amount will look even more miniscule. the only reason we even did this was due to kunitz and scuderi not wanting to waive to come here. we had darcy tucker's 1M on the cap for 6 years, and we were fine. I'm pretty sure the leafs will manage well enough with kessel's 1.2M on the cap for 7 years.

and the 2nd we gave up is pittsburgh's own, so its not a big loss. plus we got winnik back, so yay!

originally, i wanted kapanen, 2016 1st and pouliot/maataa for kessel. 2 out of 3 ain't that bad. plus harrington him self is a D prospect. albeit not good as the ones mentioned previously but still a useful piece in this deal.

after having some time to digest the deal, it honestly doesn't look too bad. the deal isn't an overpayment, but its a fair deal to me.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I was scanning the Pens prospects to see what else was available in yesterday's trade not named Maata or Pouliot, does anyone know anything of Oskar Sundqvist. A 6.03 -- Weight 209 Center from Sweden. He is actually rated ahead of Kapanen on Pens Future prospects list.

A big Center, that the #1 rated fwd on Pens prospects list. Could we use this? What's the deal with him?

 

[egd27]

although a pick between 15 and 30 is most likely (by far)

Maybe we'll be able to parley it into a second and a couple of third rounders again. Why stand closer to the dart board with one dart when you can throw three darts from much further away?

 

[Joey Hoser]

A big Center, that the #1 rated fwd on Pens prospects list. Could we use this? What's the deal with him?

Use it for what? Something else to whine about?

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

It's basically guaranteeing the Leafs pick no higher than 15 and no lower than 45. Kind of annoying Pittsburgh put that in.

It's annoying but we will probably come out with the Pens 2016 1st round pick in the end. Too good to miss the playoffs next season

Another annoyance is giving away Pens' 2nd round pick, but we did get NJD's 3rd rounder in return. Difference between those 2 picks should be less than 10 spots

 

[Vexed]

I was scanning the Pens prospects to see what else was available in yesterday's trade not named Maata or Pouliot, does anyone know anything of Oskar Sundqvist. A 6.03 -- Weight 209 Center from Sweden. He is actually rated ahead of Kapanen on Pens Future prospects list.

A big Center, that the #1 rated fwd on Pens prospects list. Could we use this? What's the deal with him?

HF rates Kapanen with a higher ceiling but a slightly less chance to reach it. I think right now we're focused on ceilings since we're furthest away from competing now. Its the right time to swing for fences. As things progress it may be more prudent to look towards 'for sure' players with lower potential.

I don't have much first hand knowledge of that swede though

 

[The Examiner]

I was scanning the Pens prospects to see what else was available in yesterday's trade not named Maata or Pouliot, does anyone know anything of Oskar Sundqvist. A 6.03 -- Weight 209 Center from Sweden. He is actually rated ahead of Kapanen on Pens Future prospects list.

A big Center, that the #1 rated fwd on Pens prospects list. Could we use this? What's the deal with him?

It's obvious. He's a forward that over 6 feet tall. Too tall for this team.

 

[ACC1224]

HF rates Kapanen with a higher ceiling but a slightly less chance to reach it. I think right now we're focused on ceilings since we're furthest away from competing now. Its the right time to swing for fences. As things progress it may be more prudent to look towards 'for sure' players with lower potential.

I don't have much first hand knowledge of that swede though

You're replying to the right post then.

 

[Schenn]

Wait... We traded Kessel yesterday!?

 

[canary]

I was scanning the Pens prospects to see what else was available in yesterday's trade not named Maata or Pouliot, does anyone know anything of Oskar Sundqvist. A 6.03 -- Weight 209 Center from Sweden. He is actually rated ahead of Kapanen on Pens Future prospects list.

A big Center, that the #1 rated fwd on Pens prospects list. Could we use this? What's the deal with him?

No, we don't have use for a player who is not on our current roster and whose rights are owned by another team

 

[pheasant]

It's annoying but we will probably come out with the Pens 2016 1st round pick in the end. Too good to miss the playoffs next season

Another annoyance is giving away Pens' 2nd round pick, but we did get NJD's 3rd rounder in return. Difference between those 2 picks should be less than 10 spots

I never thought of it that way, about the picks. You're right, that isn't a big difference in draft position.

I think the most underrated part about this trade is the cap flexibility it provides us with. Yes, we retained a bit with Kessel's contract, but we also had almost no salary come the other way. We have a lot of cap space now, and flexibility for the future. As of now, aside from the retained bit of Kessel's deal, the longest running forward contract on the team is Nathan Horton's. And no others are longer than 3 years.

Get ready for a whole lot of roster turnover.

 

[hotpaws]

I think they just didn't want to have any exceptions moving forward.

"The Leafs are going to be outstanding members of the community. Except Phil. He's shy so he doesn't have to speak to anyone".

"The Leafs are going to be expected to be hardworking on the ice and committed to both ends of the rink. Except Phil. He's just gonna hang out at the blueline and wait for breakout passes".

"The Leafs are going to extremely well conditioned and fit. Except Phil. He's just gonna skate 4-5 times in the summer and take half of it off."

You can't preach those sorts of things to a young group, while one of them clearly isn't doing them. Especially when that one is your best player.

well said

I'm disappointed by the return but i didn't want to gamble that his stock would rise if we kept him . It's time to move on and start building this team the right way and that's with character guys who are willing to do everything they can to improve themselves and help the team .

 

[Mess]

Shanny made the best of a bad situation he inherited with a flawed player and large long-term contract and a 8 team NTC.

He had one arm tied behind his back with a gun to his head to make a move here and it is what it is here and I think he did the best he could.