Pettersson vs Rantanen - now and future

[WetcoastOrca]

I''ll go with the reigning, defending, undisputed best NHL player of all time Pettersson.

I couldn’t agree more!

 

[Ainec]

Pettersson is so good, he just converted Matthews' #1 Stan

 

[tomi2]

Rantanen now and future.

 

[6ix]

Rantanen easily. Pettersson half a season of barely ppg and injuries is a joke to vote for him over Rantanen

 

[WetcoastOrca]

A tossup now.
But EP pretty easily for the future. He’ll be in that group of great young centers behind McDavid.

 

[Ben White]

I'd rather just hang onto the fact that the S% is extremely high and it will not stay that high. He'll either start shooting more and keep scoring goals like he does, or he will not. His shot totals are ridiculously low. No context is needed. I do not have a doubt that he has a good and accurate shot. That is all. Thank you for the discussion.

An interesting stat would be sh% in relation to % top corner goals. That might give a different picture.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Well, according to some folks(Including the OP) EP is already better then Mackinnon so I guess that would make Mack the 4th best player...


Anyway, Rantanen is certainly the better player now but I suspect EP probably passes him in the coming years, should be close though. EP is massively overrated right now but I still suspect he winds up a Top 10 offensive player in a couple of years.

explain what about his game is overrated

Agreed EP is overrated. Next year Makar will show he should’ve been pick #1 in the 2017 draft.

Makar would basically have to be a low end #1D right away. Or atleast a #2 to gain consideration.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

An interesting stat would be sh% in relation to % top corner goals. That might give a different picture.

You can get a top corner goal and still get lucky.

 

[ijuka]

You can get a top corner goal and still get lucky.

But not in shooting %. I'll be pulling estimates out of my ass but it still should give an OK idea. Let's assume you aim top corner and even with great aim you have a margin of error of 20 cm or so. If think about the shape of the goal around the corner, we could estimate that around 65% of the time you're just going to miss the net. Then a slight amount of time the shot's going to go closer towards the center of the goal and become easier to save. And the rest of the time, it'll be a very tough save.

As such, while indeed one could still get lucky with top corner goals, that wouldn't really be affecting save% most of the times because the shots that the person doesn't get lucky on tend to miss the net completely.

As such, I get why Pettersson might have a higher shooting %, though his still is absurdly high.

 

[Ben White]

You can get a top corner goal and still get lucky.

What if 50% of your goals are top corners?

 

[Kaako Kappo]

What if 50% of your goals are top corners?

Dunno. I'm pretty sure it does not matter. S% is a pretty good stat to see if someone's over performing, I've found.

 

[Ben White]

Dunno. I'm pretty sure it does not matter. S% is a pretty good stat to see if someone's over performing, I've found.

There are always exceptions to ”rules”, would be interesting to see a stat measuring the relation between sh% and % of top corner goals. I’m pretty sure if you score a high % of top corner goals in general (or extremely high like EP) you will maintain a higher sh% than other players without necessarily being lucky.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

There are always exceptions to ”rules”, would be interesting to see a stat measuring the relation between sh% and % of top corner goals.

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Shooting Percentage | Hockey-Reference.com

There are exceptions, but they're from the age of dinosaurs.

 

[Ben White]

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Shooting Percentage | Hockey-Reference.com

There are exceptions, but they're from the age of dinosaurs.

I suggest you actually watch some games. It’s something uncanny about EP’s shooting accuracy, he’s called Alien for various reasons. Suddenly the puck is in the net - you didn’t even see a great scoring chance coming and you think ”wtf happened”, then you watch the replay and realize he managed to find the top corner somehow.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

I suggest you actually watch some games. It’s something uncanny about EP’s shooting accuracy, he’s called Alien for various reasons. Suddenly the puck is in the net - you didn’t even see a great scoring chance coming and you think ”wtf happened”, then you watch the replay and realize he managed to find the top corner somehow.

I watch every team in the NHL. Pettersson has a good and accurate shot. That changes nothing. These are the things you always hear from the fans in these situations. Same old mantra. "He's just picky about his shooting, he's just so accurate". No, he's being lucky, to a certain extent.

Look, i think he'll be a top 10 player in the NHL in a year or two. I still stand behind my assessment about his current S%.

 

[Ben White]

I watch every team in the NHL. Pettersson has a good and accurate shot. That changes nothing. These are the things you always hear from the fans in these situations. Same old mantra. "He's just picky about his shooting, he's just so accurate". No, he's being lucky, to a certain extent.

Look, i think he'll be a top 10 player in the NHL in a year or two. I still stand behind my assessment about his current S%.

You can’t see it from some of these angles if you haven’t seen the goals before, but 11 of these 22 goals are top corners (I mean very top corner), and then I’m not even counting the 1st and 3rd goal vs Ottawa which was sort of top corners nor discounting the penalty shot (which is a different situation and shouldn’t really count) so more casually you could say 13 top corner goals out of 21, however you count it it’s crazy and can’t really be downplayed due to luck.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

You can’t see it from some of these angles if you haven’t seen the goals before, but 11 of these 22 goals are top corners (I mean very top corner), and then I’m not even counting the 1st and 3rd goal vs Ottawa which was sort of top corners nor discounting the penalty shot (which is a different situation and shouldn’t really count) so more casually you could say 13 top corner goals out of 21, however you count it it’s crazy and can’t really be downplayed due to luck.

I literally do not care. It does not matter. All his goals could be top corner and it still wouldn't make a difference. You do not understand what i am saying. High S% and luck doesn't mean that all his goals are lucky bounces off of someones ass. Last season when Karlsson shot at like 25%, a large portion of his goals were beautiful snipes.

 

[Gobben]

I remember when Laine shot at 18% during his rookie season. That was considered super high and unsustainable. Pettersson shoots at 25% and you get crucified for bringing that up. You need a reality check, your alien god-king is just a human after all.

Not true, he is a Magic Elemental from the planet HOMM3.

 

[Ben White]

I literally do not care. It does not matter. All his goals could be top corner and it still wouldn't make a difference. You do not understand what i am saying. High S% and luck doesn't mean that all his goals are lucky bounces off of someones ass. Last season when Karlsson shot at like 25%, a large portion of his goals were beautiful snipes.

You can be lucky with ”beautiful snipes” - fortunate circumstances like goalie positioning, good feeds from linemates, bad defending etc. What I mean is that if you find the very top corner it’s usually a goal regardless. In a lot of these goals there wasn’t even a good shooting lane available witch means that the only way of scoring was finding the very top corner (also in combination with the ability to change your shooting angle by moving the puck in some cases) so most players would only very occasionally and rarely be able to score in those exact situations while EP is doing it regularly - that is what’s so special and it seems that it’s only people who never actually watch him play who say otherwise.

 

[Brock Boeser Laser Show]

I literally do not care. It does not matter. All his goals could be top corner and it still wouldn't make a difference. You do not understand what i am saying. High S% and luck doesn't mean that all his goals are lucky bounces off of someones ass. Last season when Karlsson shot at like 25%, a large portion of his goals were beautiful snipes.

I guess mark sheifele must be the luckiest player in the world according to you. Three years running now that he has been fluking his way to all those goals.

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Well, Pettersson is the next coming of Gretzky so it's obviously him.

I remember another Swedish forward from last year who had a ridiculous S% all year long and people kept saying "He's good but he's not that good" and Vegas fans would go "Well he's just a picky shooter".

Yeah. Who was right?

Forgot about him. It's been quiet since.

 

[topched88]

If there is an argument on why petterssons shooting % is legitimately going to stay higher than the norm (even if not where it’s at) it has way more to do with his shot selection than his “accuracy”.

 

[Healthy DiPietro]

Pettersson with Mackinnon and Landeskog would be a legitimate Art Ross contender right now, let alone in a couple of years.

 

[CptPicard]

Rantanen, voted wrong tho. A great half of a season is not a big enough sample size for Petterson. Lets see if he continues for a couple more seasons.

 

[Panthaz89]

Pettersson with Mackinnon and Landeskog would be a legitimate Art Ross contender right now, let alone in a couple of years.

kind of like how Rantanen is right now? He was leading the league in points for the first half of the season but either way neither is winning the Art Ross over McDavid or Kucherov any time soon unless they miss a lot of games.