Confirmed with Link: Pettersson Signs 8 Year Deal with the Vancouver Canucks, AAV $11.6M

[docbenton]

Confidence is so key to being a great player.

Boeser is competing harder because he was shown confidence by the coach and converted early. This then informed his work ethic and now he's reached a new level. That said, he was still a high end player despite variable competitiveness before. Why? Because his game never relied on a high work rate. It was bettered by it, sure, but he was still a goalscorer without it.

Contrast that with Garland who needs that work rate to be relevant, and people mistakenly get the idea that his high motor must be matched by other players for them to be considered good... And that's just not the case. Different players have different plus traits.

With regards to Pettersson, it's the same issue as with Boeser, but Tocchet is limited in creating the same platform for Pettersson to succeed as he had with Boeser. And so, Pettersson is left to figure it out and hasn't. Clearly, his environment must change. I'd like to see the following next game:

Suter-Miller-Boeser
Hoglander-Lindholm-Pettersson
Joshua-Blueger-Garland
PDG-Aman-Mikheyev

Surprisingly, Pettersson played the most minutes of any centre last game. Tocchet loses that utility, but potentially gains production by the switch.

I think honestly it's too late for this year. I don't think he's been good all year even when he was putting up points. He clearly didn't have a great summer. Maybe got cocky after a productive year last year. Boeser had a great summer and came in this year looking faster and stronger. Pettersson isn't going be able to create that extra gear at this point out of nowhere.

Boeser's game absolutely relies on his pace and work rate. You can't score goals if your line doesn't have the puck. Like Tocchet said, maybe in the regular season you can get away being a cherry picker, but in the playoffs you can't win having passengers, no one is going to give you the puck and give you time and space, you have to fight for it no matter who you are.

 

[MS]

The same can be said of Miller.

I've never seen someone go from a toxic selfish idiot sabotaging the entire season of the team last year, to the key emotional leader and a solid 2 way player the next. At least not at his mature age.

I can admit that the reason I found it so disgusting is because I cannot stand the type of person he was last year.

Can you admit that your bias comes from you hating the Boeser / EP type cerebral "softer" type of people?

Miller had like a month where he was a spaz and his frustration boiled into his play and his body language stunk ... but he was still scoring like a point per game. I hated that at the time too, but it wasn't this bad or for this long. We've now seen this version of Pettersson more than the good one over the past 4 years.

The bolded isn't true at all. I just don't like players who don't compete. This is sport in 2024 is a three-zone game where pretty much every player has to be competing and winning puck battles in all 3 zones to be successful. You don't have to be big or tough or strong to compete. I loved how Pettersson played in 2022-23 when he competed. The 23-24 competing version of Boeser who is actually trying to turn pucks over on the forecheck and making an effort to track his man back ... is great.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Miller and Boeser are tight, They've been through 5 seasons on the same line, and JT has had his best years with both the best and worst of BB. You can be damn sure Millsy had input on Brock staying put when it seemed he would be traded in the offseason.

If EP doesn't fight for his linemates, he will continue to get the leftovers.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

either

* tocchet and pettersson are engineering some really wild misdirection
* pettersson is injured but tocchet thinks he's sandbagging and called out his play anyways
* pettersson isn't injured

i'll let y'all decide which of these is most plausible

Could also be mental or personality issues.

 

[Bleach Clean]

But Boeser’s struggles could be explained by injuries plus downturn in health and then passing of his father. Effort was never an issue. He has also notably taken more shots from up close. He is more engaged in his puck battles. He isn’t relying on his formerly elite shot from the perimeter. Great players adjust and reinvent their game and Boeser did that.

I mean Miller hasn’t done much in terms of his signature drives to the net either but he’s generally a guy who tries to do too much when he struggles to get out of a funk. He’s still making plays.

Garland indeed has a high work rate and the reason why we went out and acquired the player. He’s a play driver just like Miller. He’s been providing the type of play we hockey fans celebrate and generally acknowledged as needed to succeed in the playoffs.

What is Petey doing? He keeps saying he wants to be the best and he wants to win. Well he’s now up against the best and the team needs him to continue winning.

Every player says they want to win and be the best.

For Boeser, a lack of effort has been levied against him in the past. MS has specifically stated that this is the reason for his turn around (to paraphrase).

For Pettersson, how do you adjust playing with a player that hasn't scored in 60 games? Pettersson finished 19th in overall production (17th amongst forwards) with Mikheyev and Hoglander as his most frequent linemates... Just think about that for a minute. He dragged around an anchor and an AHL convert to finish top20 in scoring. That is astonishing.

The environment has changed and Pettersson is asked to do the same or better with the same linemates. Does that make sense? To me, it does not. If the environment is tougher shouldn't the coach change his player's environment to compensate? This isn't about what he's done, but about what gets him to be better.

 

[Nuckles]

either

* tocchet and pettersson are engineering some really wild misdirection
* pettersson is injured but tocchet thinks he's sandbagging and called out his play anyways
* pettersson isn't injured

i'll let y'all decide which of these is most plausible

My fear is if he really isn't injured/sick then it could be mental health related, though I really don't like to speculate about that kind of stuff

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

My fear is if he really isn't injured/sick then it could be mental health related, though I really don't like to speculate about that kind of stuff

It's not a 'fear' for me, what I'm scared of is either EP or the team being dismissive of it.

I think that sort of shit can be figured out at the income bracket he's in. Sports psychologists are generally very good at figuring out what makes guys tick.

 

[TruKnyte]

It's not a 'fear' for me, what I'm scared of is either EP or the team being dismissive of it.

I think that sort of shit can be figured out at the income bracket he's in. Sports psychologists are generally very good at figuring out what makes guys tick.

I doubt the team would be dismissive of it, they have 90 million reasons to try whatever works. Petey on the other hand is a different story. Balls pretty much in his court if that's what ails him.

 

[tantalum]

My fear is if he really isn't injured/sick then it could be mental health related, though I really don't like to speculate about that kind of stuff

Based on his presser he's clearly not 100% at the moment with significant congestion etc. No idea how long that's been going on but it can be draining.

The other thing I forgot to add in my post. 5-on-5 he is above water on corsi, fenwick and scoring chance share (54 %) but he's below water on high danger (42%) which the latter may be a direct result of his linemates. Overall he should have a near 50% goal share but is sitting at 28%. Interestingly Garland and Joshua have worse underlying numbers but have been very opportunistic (obviously they get different match ups as well right now and are certainly more noticeable in a good way).

 

[credulous]

My fear is if he really isn't injured/sick then it could be mental health related, though I really don't like to speculate about that kind of stuff

i don't think it's useful to speculate about it either but i think if he was going through something tocchet would be more careful with his criticism

i think the most likely explanation is that pettersson just isn't engaged and committed. maybe he regrets signing here. maybe he hates his teammates. maybe he can't stand tocchet. whatever it is the coaching staff/management needs to figure it out and resolve it. the canucks aren't going to be successful with this version of pettersson

 

[Bleach Clean]

Miller had like a month where he was a spaz and his frustration boiled into his play and his body language stunk ... but he was still scoring like a point per game. I hated that at the time too, but it wasn't this bad or for this long. We've now seen this version of Pettersson more than the good one over the past 4 years.

The bolded isn't true at all. I just don't like players who don't compete. This is sport in 2024 is a three-zone game where pretty much every player has to be competing and winning puck battles in all 3 zones to be successful. You don't have to be big or tough or strong to compete. I loved how Pettersson played in 2022-23 when he competed. The 23-24 competing version of Boeser who is actually trying to turn pucks over on the forecheck and making an effort to track his man back ... is great.

The cerebral player is one who is not apparently competitive... And you don't like players who don't compete.

You clearly have a bias here MS, but it's fine to have them. Everyone does.

 

[MS]

The cerebral player is one who is not apparently competitive... And you don't like players who don't compete.

You clearly have a bias here MS, but it's fine to have them. Everyone does.

Being cerebral and being competitive are not mutually exclusive.

'Good Pettersson' is a cerebral player who competes. 'Bad Pettersson' is a cerebral who doesn't move his feet and doesn't compete.

In this sport in 2024 it is virtually impossible to be an effective player if you don't move your feet and compete, whether you're a small cerebral player or a big mean player.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

either

* tocchet and pettersson are engineering some really wild misdirection
* pettersson is injured but tocchet thinks he's sandbagging and called out his play anyways
* pettersson isn't injured

i'll let y'all decide which of these is most plausible

Or Pettersson is injured but is an injury that wont get worse under strain but is bothering him and Tocchet is challenging him "to suck it up."

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

I'd argue the people who are bringing up shit EP did in junior, turning a complete blind eye to what we're literally seeing unfold in front of us, while straight up ignoring stuff that discredits them, etc. are the ones who hold the bias.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Miller had like a month where he was a spaz and his frustration boiled into his play and his body language stunk ... but he was still scoring like a point per game. I hated that at the time too, but it wasn't this bad or for this long. We've now seen this version of Pettersson more than the good one over the past 4 years.

He has been a spaz with the Rangers and Tampa.

It was ~50 games and it was far worse than anything Pettersson has ever suffered. For the first couple of weeks he was leading the league in PPG against, and that list included goalies.

The bolded isn't true at all. I just don't like players who don't compete. This is sport in 2024 is a three-zone game where pretty much every player has to be competing and winning puck battles in all 3 zones to be successful. You don't have to be big or tough or strong to compete. I loved how Pettersson played in 2022-23 when he competed. The 23-24 competing version of Boeser who is actually trying to turn pucks over on the forecheck and making an effort to track his man back ... is great.

Thats all fine.

We all knew what was bothering Boeser. You decided to ignore it. (I remember you weirdly compares him to you going through hardship and you still being able to perform at work. I found this comparison completely absurd at the time. So out of touch what it takes to be a pro athlete.)

We dont yet know what is bothering EP but its so obviously something.

 

[credulous]

Or Pettersson is injured but is an injury that wont get worse under strain but is bothering him and Tocchet is challenging him "to suck it up."

that's option 2 in my list

 

[Hodgy]

The cerebral player is one who is not apparently competitive... And you don't like players who don't compete.

You clearly have a bias here MS, but it's fine to have them. Everyone does.

Being cerebral and being competitive are not mutually exclusive.

'Good Pettersson' is a cerebral player who competes. 'Bad Pettersson' is a cerebral who doesn't move his feet and doesn't compete.

In this sport in 2024 it is virtually impossible to be an effective player if you don't move your feet and compete, whether you're a small cerebral player or a big mean player.

Agreed with @MS. Look no further than Datysuk.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

that's option 2 in my list

Sandbagging is the same as what Im saying...?

I didnt mean cerebral player. I mean personality.

 

[credulous]

Sandbagging is the same as what Im saying...?

I didnt mean cerebral player. I mean personality.

yeah sandbagging means basically he's (maybe) injured but he's playing it up to be worse than it is and he could play through it

 

[MS]

The team has been super-duper extra crystal-clear that he's not injured. People are defaulting to this weak-sauce 'injury' out because they don't like going where you need to go to explain his play if he's not hurt.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Its not about the moment being too big.

Its also not "him quitting on his team" like MS thinks.

To me these are really childish takes by frustrated fans.

What do you think it is then? Since everyone else is obviously wrong.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Extreme bias. Reminds me of your Boeser takes.


Go watch any of the playoff games by that era team that are available on youtube.

Pay attention to what the refs let the opposing teams do to Bertuzzi.

Fair point for 2002.

2003 was a gutless effort by him and it was clear he was mentally checked out in the Wild series.

At least Pettersson isn't cracking any jokes about Edmonton though.

 

[tantalum]

The team has been super-duper extra crystal-clear that he's not injured. People are defaulting to this weak-sauce 'injury' out because they don't like going where you need to go to explain his play if he's not hurt.

Teams are often super-duper crystal clear about players not being injured and then once playoffs end they in fact were. I'm not saying that is the case with Pettersson at all but what the team says doesn't mean much. It's also pretty clear from the presser today that he is sick right now. Does that excuse the last 4 months. Likely not but it might just be reason for recent issues.

 

[vanarchy]

Teams are often super-duper crystal clear about players not being injured and then once playoffs end they in fact were. I'm not saying that is the case with Pettersson at all but what the team says doesn't mean much. It's also pretty clear from the presser today that he is sick right now. Does that excuse the last 4 months. Likely not but it might just be reason for recent issues.

I just hope he learns from this and takes any frustrations out on the gym this summer.

The Sedins were 25/26 when they really took off in playoff production and he's built similarly so there is hope.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Being cerebral and being competitive are not mutually exclusive.

'Good Pettersson' is a cerebral player who competes. 'Bad Pettersson' is a cerebral who doesn't move his feet and doesn't compete.

In this sport in 2024 it is virtually impossible to be an effective player if you don't move your feet and compete, whether you're a small cerebral player or a big mean player.

Bad Pettersson, per your definition, still finished 19th in overall scoring. He's been effective with his mind, while you like players that compete. It's a bias.

These things aren't mutually exclusive, which is true, but when one shows predominantly more than the other, you like it or dislike it.