GDT: Pens vs Red Wings - 9/30/15: The Day Perron Gets His Shot.

[gopens66]

Bryan Trottier got old, and guess what, played on the third line. A guy who's far, far better at this hockey thing than Kunitz. I'm trying to be patient. Johnston sat Adams, maybe he'll demote Kunitz if it's not working out. I just don't know what to think anymore.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Bryan Trottier got old, and guess what, played on the third line. A guy who's far, far better at this hockey thing than Kunitz. I'm trying to be patient. Johnston sat Adams, maybe he'll demote Kunitz if it's not working out. I just don't know what to think anymore.

I don't know why its such a big deal this early.

Not only is line construction one of the least important aspects of coaching but there are going to be countless line combination tried throughout the season. Due to performance and injuries, nearly every worthwhile option will be seen at some point.

If it doesn't work it will be changed, if it does work then there is nothing to ****** about.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I've maintained all along that I have never been told that Dupuis or Kunitz' usage is due to Crosby. Now, the person I speak to simply may not know. There are certainly better people to ask than the person I ask, but from what I know, they simply value Kunitz and Dupuis.

Madden seems to be pushing the agenda passive aggressively that Crosby wants him there. In a vacuum it seems so bizarre and you would naturally point the finger at Crosby. It's his buddy, Kunitz got his Olympic nod because of Crosby, he has that kind of influence....

Then you look at their infatuation with vets... I mean the **** with Adams takes the cake. They kept the guy around so he could break the iron man streak, then finally benched him. As I have maintained, one of the most shameful acts this org ever did on ice. They also pushed the Scuds babysitting agenda with Despres. Then brought back a "safe, seasoned vet" for Despres.

I'm also 100% sure Dupuis will play that third line spot over BB. Just read that after Wed night, that besides being tied with Kessel for the team lead with goals, BB was also second in the entire league during preseason in shots on goal.

The spin they will put on these decisions will be comical. I thoroughly enjoyed the Trib article about "Kunitz Hopes To Compete For Top Line Spot".

Right... compete...

I don't know why its such a big deal this early.

Not only is line construction one of the least important aspects of coaching but there are going to be countless line combination tried throughout the season. Due to performance and injuries, nearly every worthwhile option will be seen at some point.

If it doesn't work it will be changed, if it does work then there is nothing to ****** about.

It's the thought process behind these decisions. Do people not get that or what?

 

[UnrealMachine]

Kunitz finished last season ranked 252nd among forwards in 5on5 points/60. He doesn't get enough credit for his role in costing Crosby the scoring title. Curious to see how many levels of octane he can manage to suck out of Crosby/Kessel.

 

[DegenX]

I've maintained all along that I have never been told that Dupuis or Kunitz' usage is due to Crosby. Now, the person I speak to simply may not know. There are certainly better people to ask than the person I ask, but from what I know, they simply value Kunitz and Dupuis.

I thought they were going to try to move Kunitz during the off-season. Any idea what changed? Was it Fitzgerald leaving for the Debs?

 

[gopens66]

I don't know why its such a big deal this early.

Not only is line construction one of the least important aspects of coaching but there are going to be countless line combination tried throughout the season. Due to performance and injuries, nearly every worthwhile option will be seen at some point.

If it doesn't work it will be changed, if it does work then there is nothing to ****** about.

I agree, that if it works, there is nothing to ***** about. When I said I'm trying to be patient, I mean that I'm in a "wait and see what happens" frame of mind. The bolded is what scares people, because even though Kunitz was brutal last year, he still played nearly the whole year in the top 6 and always saw first powerplay time. And let's not kid ourselves, he was brutal.

 

[Jacob]

Kunitz finished last season ranked 252nd among forwards in 5on5 points/60. He doesn't get enough credit for his role in costing Crosby the scoring title. Curious to see how many levels of octane he can manage to suck out of Crosby/Kessel.

In the final 60 games of the season he put up Nick Spaling numbers, only playing with Sid and at almost twice the cap hit.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

I've maintained all along that I have never been told that Dupuis or Kunitz' usage is due to Crosby. Now, the person I speak to simply may not know. There are certainly better people to ask than the person I ask, but from what I know, they simply value Kunitz and Dupuis.

Welp, that's dooming.

Madden seems to be pushing the agenda passive aggressively that Crosby wants him there. In a vacuum it seems so bizarre and you would naturally point the finger at Crosby. It's his buddy, Kunitz got his Olympic nod because of Crosby, he has that kind of influence....

Then you look at their infatuation with vets... I mean the **** with Adams takes the cake. They kept the guy around so he could break the iron man streak, then finally benched him. As I have maintained, one of the most shameful acts this org ever did on ice. They also pushed the Scuds babysitting agenda with Despres. Then brought back a "safe, seasoned vet" for Despres.

I'm also 100% sure Dupuis will play that third line spot over BB. Just read that after Wed night, that besides being tied with Kessel for the team lead with goals, BB was also second in the entire league during preseason in shots on goal.

The spin they will put on these decisions will be comical. I thoroughly enjoyed the Trib article about "Kunitz Hopes To Compete For Top Line Spot".

Right... compete...

The simpler, scarier answer is that they're stupid and obsessed with vets because it's so widespread and consistent. They're going to slam the cup window shut over it and then eventually have a brutal rebuild that they'll keep sabotaging. ****ing Lovejoy is going to slot into the beloved vet position, isn't he? Kunitz, Dupuis, Scuderi, Lovejoy and whoever else.

Now that I think about it they let Morrow hobble around out there with a split kneecap and he was awful while guys like Bennett and Jokinen (Euro) were healthy scratches. But we know the limit of the love as far as ice time is, not getting traded or waived, Tanner Glass in the playoffs and Craig Adams once he got that streak.

Madden is Madden, like the rest of their media but with a shtick. They're all pretty damn useless, idk, maybe the Toronto media will develop a hatred for the org during their Kessel obsession, they'll go for the throat.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Madden seems to be pushing the agenda passive aggressively that Crosby wants him there. In a vacuum it seems so bizarre and you would naturally point the finger at Crosby. It's his buddy, Kunitz got his Olympic nod because of Crosby, he has that kind of influence....

Then you look at their infatuation with vets... I mean the **** with Adams takes the cake. They kept the guy around so he could break the iron man streak, then finally benched him. As I have maintained, one of the most shameful acts this org ever did on ice. They also pushed the Scuds babysitting agenda with Despres. Then brought back a "safe, seasoned vet" for Despres.

I'm also 100% sure Dupuis will play that third line spot over BB. Just read that after Wed night, that besides being tied with Kessel for the team lead with goals, BB was also second in the entire league during preseason in shots on goal.

The spin they will put on these decisions will be comical. I thoroughly enjoyed the Trib article about "Kunitz Hopes To Compete For Top Line Spot".

Right... compete...



It's the thought process behind these decisions. Do people not get that or what?

The process, please tell me their process since your obviously in their coaches meetings and seeing their practices. Oh wait..

The process of trying a proven player that had a bad year but has not only proven capable to play top minutes with Sid at a high level but also plays the perfect style to complement the other two players on that line is a bad process? I mean it very well might not work out and Kunitz might very well be completely done, but trying Kunitz with Sid and Kessel isn't a bad process. Its actually the highest reward option.

If last year was in fact just a bad year and he rebounds you have a top notch 1st line AND get to save Perron for another line whether its 2nd LW or 3rd line RW. And like I sadi there will probably be 5+ different line mates for Sid/Kessel before its all said and done regardless.

 

[IcedCapp]

I really admire the people who can develop amnesia every time a season ends and forget about the patterns and thought processes we've watched for the past decade.

In a vacuum, the Pens' preseason is fine and normal and all that. In context of how they've conducted business for the last 10 years, it's ****ing terrifying (as a fan).

I thought they were going to try to move Kunitz during the off-season. Any idea what changed? Was it Fitzgerald leaving for the Debs?

Kunitz has been in three agreed upon trade proposals since the trade deadline.

The first was nixed because the front office thought they turned a corner
The second was nixed due to someone's NTC
The third was nixed because the Kessel trade went through


Since then, there's been little talk of moving him.

 

[Shady Machine]

I don't know why its such a big deal this early.

Not only is line construction one of the least important aspects of coaching but there are going to be countless line combination tried throughout the season. Due to performance and injuries, nearly every worthwhile option will be seen at some point.

If it doesn't work it will be changed, if it does work then there is nothing to ****** about.

It's a big deal because it goes back to mindset. We have been complaining for years about KCD and the general comeback would be "well we don't have any better options". Now we actually do and they claim it's a competition, yet Kunitz was gifted the spot before camp even opened.

Could the lines change? Sure, but Kunitz is going to be given every opportunity to play there until he sucks so bad, it's blatantly obvious he needs to move down the lineup. Then Perron will get 2 periods and when he doesn't light it up, Duper will go there.

It's just the way it goes.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I agree, that if it works, there is nothing to ***** about. When I said I'm trying to be patient, I mean that I'm in a "wait and see what happens" frame of mind. The bolded is what scares people, because even though Kunitz was brutal last year, he still played nearly the whole year in the top 6 and always saw first powerplay time. And let's not kid ourselves, he was brutal.

No doubt he was brutal, the problem was that last year everyone was brutal. Perron started on fire but was brutal. Kunitz started on fire but was brutal, Bennett was hurt the brutal, Dupuid was just hurt.

Really outside of Horny not a single winger was good enough. Seriously when Blake Comeau is your second best winger...

 

[Speaking Moistly]

Kunitz has been in three agreed upon trade proposals since the trade deadline.

The first was nixed because the front office thought they turned a corner
The second was nixed due to someone's NTC
The third was nixed because the Kessel trade went through


Since then, there's been little talk of moving him.

There is no god.

This place is going to go insane when the lineup for the last preseason game is announced.

 

[td_ice]

I really admire the people who can develop amnesia every time a season ends and forget about the patterns and thought processes we've watched for the past decade.

In a vacuum, the Pens' preseason is fine and normal and all that. In context of how they've conducted business for the last 10 years, it's ****ing terrifying (as a fan).




.

Haha......so true.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Kunitz has been in three agreed upon trade proposals since the trade deadline.

The first was nixed because the front office thought they turned a corner
The second was nixed due to someone's NTC
The third was nixed because the Kessel trade went through


Since then, there's been little talk of moving him.

**** my life

 

[Zero Pucks]

I've maintained all along that I have never been told that Dupuis or Kunitz' usage is due to Crosby. Now, the person I speak to simply may not know. There are certainly better people to ask than the person I ask, but from what I know, they simply value Kunitz and Dupuis.

It's just mind boggling that this organization can't see that Dupuis and Kunitz are simply done (or just about) as hockey players. Meanwhile Perron and Bennett have many more good years ahead of them, but they'll be the ones to get the shaft. There's just no other way to explain it other than it's just... ********.

 

[DegenX]

I really admire the people who can develop amnesia every time a season ends and forget about the patterns and thought processes we've watched for the past decade.

In a vacuum, the Pens' preseason is fine and normal and all that. In context of how they've conducted business for the last 10 years, it's ****ing terrifying (as a fan).




Kunitz has been in three agreed upon trade proposals since the trade deadline.

The first was nixed because the front office thought they turned a corner
The second was nixed due to someone's NTC
The third was nixed because the Kessel trade went through


Since then, there's been little talk of moving him.

To the first bolded, agreed. Firing Shero was supposed to be some sort of magic bullet, but it didn't seem to change much in how the FO does business overall. The biggest change seems to be that instead of a deep D prospect pool we now have a surplus of right shooting wingers.

To the second, that's discouraging.

Welp, thanks for the intel, as always ... even if it's not what I want to hear

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

It's a big deal because it goes back to mindset. We have been complaining for years about KCD and the general comeback would be "well we don't have any better options". Now we actually do and they claim it's a competition, yet Kunitz was gifted the spot before camp even opened.

Could the lines change? Sure, but Kunitz is going to be given every opportunity to play there until he sucks so bad, it's blatantly obvious he needs to move down the lineup. Then Perron will get 2 periods and when he doesn't light it up, Duper will go there.

It's just the way it goes.

1. Anything that happened before last year is irrelevant. The people making those decisions are gone.

2. Somebody has to play there. Kunitz sucked last year AND Perron sucked last year. Yes Kunitz is older and less likely to turn it around but there is no reason not to try everyone there eventually which is exactly what will likely happen.

3. People are complaining to complain. If anyone has a real issue to complain about go right ahead, but preseason and start of season line construction is so, so, so insignificant its really not worth the squeeze. If you don't like Johnston breakout im all ears, if you don't like the PP set up tell me about it, if you hate the way he wants his defensemen to coveR the defensive zone let me know. You know things that actually matter.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

The process, please tell me their process since your obviously in their coaches meetings and seeing their practices. Oh wait..

The process of trying a proven player that had a bad year but has not only proven capable to play top minutes with Sid at a high level but also plays the perfect style to complement the other two players on that line is a bad process? I mean it very well might not work out and Kunitz might very well be completely done, but trying Kunitz with Sid and Kessel isn't a bad process. Its actually the highest reward option.

If last year was in fact just a bad year and he rebounds you have a top notch 1st line AND get to save Perron for another line whether its 2nd LW or 3rd line RW. And like I sadi there will probably be 5+ different line mates for Sid/Kessel before its all said and done regardless.

The process is obvious. He's being put there because of what he did 2-3 years ago. There isn't some deep, hashed out thinking going on in some dark film room.

All you do is make excuses for this team, and as you did last season, it made you look foolish.

Here is a question you can dance all around:

What progress has this team made since June 12th 2009?

Have fun with that.

 

[drpepper]

1. Anything that happened before last year is irrelevant. The people making those decisions are gone.

2. Somebody has to play there. Kunitz sucked last year AND Perron sucked last year. Yes Kunitz is older and less likely to turn it around but there is no reason not to try everyone there eventually which is exactly what will likely happen.

3. People are complaining to complain. If anyone has a real issue to complain about go right ahead, but preseason and start of season line construction is so, so, so insignificant its really not worth the squeeze. If you don't like Johnston breakout im all ears, if you don't like the PP set up tell me about it, if you hate the way he wants his defensemen to coveR the defensive zone let me know. You know things that actually matter.

Do you have any evidence at all that line construction & player deployment is "insignificant"?

 

[MrBurghundy]

To keep myself sane, I'll take solace in the fact that they tried to trade him 3 times. Hopefully that means they will try again when he sucks again.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

To keep myself sane, I'll take solace in the fact that they tried to trade him 3 times. Hopefully that means they will try again when he sucks again.

I think the bigger question is how much damage they'll have done before that? If they've already traded Perron and/or Bennett for whatever delightful return they'll get the damage is largely done.

 

[Night Shift]

Reading this board really does suck the joy out being a fan of this team. Even though I do like to read to keep up with what's going on with the team news wise it's hard not to get caught up with the negativity.

but I truly just want to enjoy the season.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

1. Anything that happened before last year is irrelevant. The people making those decisions are gone.

2. Somebody has to play there. Kunitz sucked last year AND Perron sucked last year. Yes Kunitz is older and less likely to turn it around but there is no reason not to try everyone there eventually which is exactly what will likely happen.

3. People are complaining to complain. If anyone has a real issue to complain about go right ahead, but preseason and start of season line construction is so, so, so insignificant its really not worth the squeeze. If you don't like Johnston breakout im all ears, if you don't like the PP set up tell me about it, if you hate the way he wants his defensemen to coveR the defensive zone let me know. You know things that actually matter.

I disagree with everything you said.

 

[SEALBound]

To keep myself sane, I'll take solace in the fact that they tried to trade him 3 times. Hopefully that means they will try again when he sucks again.

That's the thing though, they need to be smart enough to dump him when they can. Best case, if he's on the first line, he rocks it with Sid and Kessel and someone is willing to take him and give back a half decent pick or prospect. What the Pens tend to do is ride them into the dirt then try to trade when the value is that of dog **** on a hot day. Shining with Sid and Phil, $3.85 isn't all that bad. When he gets to where he was last year...$3.85 is an albatross.

They know they are against the cap, they know that they have good depth, they know due to age and style he game will be dropping off considerably. They just need to be willing to pull the trigger. But they just get so dang gun shy. I'm hoping after camps and a couple reg season games we see some injuries that would help make emergency trades like Scuds and Kunitz. Even if the return is meh, combined those two returns and add something small to get a #4/5.

Scuds for a 4th, Kunitz for a 3rd+b prospect = 3rd, 4th, prospect, Lovejoy(?) for someone's #4...