Post-Game Talk: Pens vs Nucks: In Soviet hockey, you dont score on PP, PP scores on you!

[AuroraBorealis]

No that's fine, sorry if I came off too harsh. I think we just have different philosophies towards rebuilding a team.

Look at the rosters on Vegas and St. Louis during their Cups.
It's a team sport. You win through the collective strength of the team. Marchessault and O'Reilly were the MVP's of those campaigns, not hall of fame legends.
It is very possible to orchestrate a rebuild to construct a team like this. But it requires care, patience and most of all, intelligence. Those are things Dubas has.

The Oilers fail because their collective strength isn't enough. They leave glaring weaknesses at vital positions in order to prioritize their attack.
McDavid and Draisaitl may end up top-10 all-time players who have been brilliant in the playoffs, yet it hasn't been enough.

You're only looking at examples of the Pens and their history. Look deeper. Those things happened a long time ago. Decades.
It's 2024. There's multiple ways to approach this.

If a 1st line is lacking a few goals overall during a playoff run, then you simply compensate for that with a few more goals from the 2nd line or bottom-six, or blue line. Or you focus on lockdown defense.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

What I'm talking about is a more intelligent GM doing it better and overseeing the whole process...one who is obsessed with draft and development and worked in the minors for years. This is the right man to do this. If we wait and pull the trigger on a rebuild in like 4 years or w/e, he might not be here or not be here for long enough to oversee the entire process. THAT'S when it will get hurt, cuz someone worse would come in and ruin it.

He signed a 7-year deal. That's a rarity, and it's because FSG and Dubas know exactly what lies ahead.

They will try and compete as long as Sid and Co. are in uniform. During that process, they will begin restocking the system. No more firsts being traded for Jason Zucker or Derick Brassard. The moment the core departs, they'll make additional trades to further load up.

And then they'll utilize free agency. Don't discount a couple big swings there to jumpstart the process.

 

[Gurglesons]

Even so, I feel that a contender can be built without one, with good management and a smartly engineered rebuild...which I think Dubas is capable of. Eichel is not a top-10 player all-time player. Neither is Marchessault or Aden Hill. Yet they won the Cup.
The collective contributions are what matters.

The Pens exploited the draft system for those, yes. Doesn't matter what's happened before. That was a long time ago. Only matters what they need to do now.
What's their alternative? Sid missing the playoffs for the last 3 years of his contract, or scraping a 1st round entry and golfing in 2 weeks? What's the point of this? What's getting accomplished this season?
Even if their rebuild fails, I'd be happy to see them make a valid attempt at bringing the team back to relevance, instead of being an afterthought.
I don't agree at all that the method of the rebuild is irrelevant. There's very clear mistakes that the Flyers, Senators, Sabres, Wings and others have made in building their foundation, which has slowed them down.

What I'm talking about is a more intelligent GM doing it better and overseeing the whole process...one who is obsessed with draft and development and worked in the minors for years. This is the right man to do this. If we wait and pull the trigger on a rebuild in like 4 years or w/e, he might not be here or not be here for long enough to oversee the entire process. THAT'S when it will get hurt, cuz someone worse would come in and ruin it.

The Pens exploited the draft system for literally one year. They wanted to be competitive the year they drafted Staal. They lucked into Sid. They traded up for MAF.

Look at the rosters on Vegas and St. Louis during their Cups.
It's a team sport. You win through the collective strength of the team. Marchessault and O'Reilly were the MVP's of those campaigns, not hall of fame legends.
It is very possible to orchestrate a rebuild to construct a team like this. But it requires care, patience and most of all, intelligence. Those are things Dubas has.

The Oilers fail because their collective strength isn't enough. They leave glaring weaknesses at vital positions in order to prioritize their attack.
McDavid and Draisaitl may end up top-10 all-time players who have been brilliant in the playoffs, yet it hasn't been enough.

You're only looking at examples of the Pens and their history. Look deeper. Those things happened a long time ago. Decades.
It's 2024. There's multiple ways to approach this.

If a 1st line is lacking a few goals overall during a playoff run, then you simply compensate for that with a few more goals from the 2nd line or bottom-six, or blue line. Or you focus on lockdown defense.

Vegas’s top players were acquired via trade. So the argument is we can trade our way into a championship like Vegas?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Look at the rosters on Vegas and St. Louis during their Cups.
It's a team sport. You win through the collective strength of the team. Marchessault and O'Reilly were the MVP's of those campaigns, not hall of fame legends.
It is very possible to orchestrate a rebuild to construct a team like this. But it requires care, patience and most of all, intelligence. Those are things Dubas has.

The Oilers fail because their collective strength isn't enough. They leave glaring weaknesses at vital positions in order to prioritize their attack.
McDavid and Draisaitl may end up top-10 all-time players who have been brilliant in the playoffs, yet it hasn't been enough.

You're only looking at examples of the Pens and their history. Look deeper. Those things happened a long time ago. Decades.
It's 2024. There's multiple ways to approach this.

If a 1st line is lacking a few goals overall during a playoff run, then you simply compensate for that with a few more goals from the 2nd line or bottom-six, or blue line. Or you focus on lockdown defense.

Vegas isn't a legit example. That team was born on third base thanks to the expansion draft.

St. Louis was a fluke. They got hot at the right time. They weren't a sustainable build. That happens sometimes. It's fun for the fans and franchise, but it's ultimately not a blueprint.

Tampa is the blueprint. Six best players, even now, all acquired through the draft. You build the rest through smart acquisitions and signings. The draft picks don't have to be generational players, but they absolutely need to be perennial all-stars.

Colorado is similar, though they acquired a few young prospects through trade (Girard, Toews). But Makar, Mackinnon, Landeskog and Rantanen all draft picks.

Dallas draft - Benn, Heiskanen, Lindell, Hintz, Roberston.

How has Boston survived this transition so far? Marchand, Pasternak, DeBrusk, McAvoy all through the draft, just like some of the young guys (Poitras) beginning to chip in this season. In fact, Boston's approach might be the model for the Pens. Quietly stockpile some pieces, let them marinate, have reliable guys (Guentzel, Rust) you can turn the keys over to, and plug in the young guns with some smart acquisitions around them.

But you need to build through the draft and you need high caliber players to do it.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Look at the rosters on Vegas and St. Louis during their Cups.
It's a team sport. You win through the collective strength of the team. Marchessault and O'Reilly were the MVP's of those campaigns, not hall of fame legends.
It is very possible to orchestrate a rebuild to construct a team like this. But it requires care, patience and most of all, intelligence. Those are things Dubas has.

The Oilers fail because their collective strength isn't enough. They leave glaring weaknesses at vital positions in order to prioritize their attack.
McDavid and Draisaitl may end up top-10 all-time players who have been brilliant in the playoffs, yet it hasn't been enough.

You're only looking at examples of the Pens and their history. Look deeper. Those things happened a long time ago. Decades.
It's 2024. There's multiple ways to approach this.

If a 1st line is lacking a few goals overall during a playoff run, then you simply compensate for that with a few more goals from the 2nd line or bottom-six, or blue line. Or you focus on lockdown defense.

St Louis is probably the only team to win the cup in the last 85 years without a HOF forward in their prime or one of the best goalies of all time (I expect Eric Staal to make it eventually). You can win like that, but it's not the path I'd choose when building a team given the very low success rate.