Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: Dr Strangedubas "Tankination" is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face."

[Sideline]

There's honestly a lot of goalies sort of floating around.

Markstrom in Calgary (maybe a bigger deal available there??)

Markstrom had an .892 save percentage 2 years ago. He's a great example of why we shouldn't be so quick to think a different goalie is going to be a better goalie than what we've already got.

If Hellebuyck or Vasilevskiy were available I'd be all for setting Jarry adrift on an iceflow, but even the current "best available option" is straight up unreliable.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think we should probably look more at term and cap hit than stats. Anyhow, the defense is going to make most anyone we get look bad, so I wouldn’t sweat the goalie that much. Just get rid of the bad blood and large cap hit and go for whoever cheap, who cares?

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

MAF turned into a stud?

Weird.

You do know that MAF won a Vezina in Vegas, right?

 

[Gurglesons]

You do know that MAF won a Vezina in Vegas, right?

Legacy award.

 

[molon labe]

Markstrom had an .892 save percentage 2 years ago. He's a great example of why we shouldn't be so quick to think a different goalie is going to be a better goalie than what we've already got.

If Hellebuyck or Vasilevskiy were available I'd be all for setting Jarry adrift on an iceflow, but even the current "best available option" is straight up unreliable.

A - that team was ass.

B - he's got 2 years left versus Jarry's 4 and I don't know a single person who would rack and stack Jarry over Markstrom based on their play.

The point should either be to bring in a platoon guy, or to target a different starter since ours has shown he's not going to be the guy here.

I'd prefer the platoon route because I don't see anything I like in these modern goalies. Vasi is extraordinarily overrated and has faltered just as much as the next guy on a world-beating team. They started to go down hill...and...surprise! so did he. I haven't seen the franchise-carrying goaltending like Carey Price since he retired. Hellebuyck imo is the only one close.

..So anyone we target should be coming with 1-3 years imo. This 5-8 year deal stuff is insanity for the vast majority of these guys.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I never played goalie beyond the occasional pickup game, but it’s seems like a position that translates easier between leagues, once you adjust for the quicker speed/smaller ice of the NA game. Goalies of the board, what do you think?

IIRC, one one the radio/podcast shows I was listening to in the past few weeks they were talking about how the skill difference between NHL and AHL goalies isn't that big. The separating factor is the ability to compete day in and day out mentally at the NHL level.

 

[molon labe]

IIRC, one one the radio/podcast shows I was listening to in the past few weeks they were talking about how the skill difference between NHL and AHL goalies isn't that big. The separating factor is the ability to compete day in and day out mentally at the NHL level.

The way the game is played now - you don't see a lot of shot differential in most of the major leagues. Speed, areas of the ice...maybe(?) deflections..

If a goalie is agile and can follow the play at NHL speed I think they stand a chance.

...but I honestly feel bad for the position. I try to think of another (QB in football?) position in pro sports so biased. Even when you have every reason not to be you see a guy like Gustav get his chance and somehow lights the world on fire. I bet there are HUNDREDS of goalies worth a shot (at least on PTO's) that are never given the time based on luck/location/scouting whatever.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

If the Pens trade Jarry, I wonder if Dubas will go after Samsonov.

He and Ned are fairly similar. Their numbers aren't great, but they've found ways to win. Samsonov was better last year than he's been this year - and none of the goalies for Toronto have done outstanding.

You could do Samsonov and Ned for a combined $5-6 million total. And if Blomqvist is breaking down the door midseason, you could flip one of Samsonov or Ned pretty easily at $2.5/3 million.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If the Pens trade Jarry, I wonder if Dubas will go after Samsonov.

He and Ned are fairly similar. Their numbers aren't great, but they've found ways to win. Samsonov was better last year than he's been this year - and none of the goalies for Toronto have done outstanding.

You could do Samsonov and Ned for a combined $5-6 million total. And if Blomqvist is breaking down the door midseason, you could flip one of Samsonov or Ned pretty easily at $2.5/3 million.

I think it's more likely that he'd try to do Jarry for Campbell with salary retention and a draft pick.

Which honestly is something that is halfway intriguing due to Campbell's great AHL season this year.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I think it's more likely that he'd try to do Jarry for Campbell with salary retention and a draft pick.

Which honestly is something that is halfway intriguing due to Campbell's great AHL season this year.

Campbell definitely appears to be a potential reclamation project and it can be argued that Edmonton is the outlier in his career.

I'm just skeptical that Edmonton is going to be willing to take on Jarry at full freight AND retain on Campbell's contract, especially with Skinner being only 25 and costing just $2.5 million.

 

[Goalie_Bob]

I think paying Ned more than like 1.5mil is insanity. Same with Samsanov.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Campbell definitely appears to be a potential reclamation project and it can be argued that Edmonton is the outlier in his career.

I'm just skeptical that Edmonton is going to be willing to take on Jarry at full freight AND retain on Campbell's contract, especially with Skinner being only 25 and costing just $2.5 million.

I think they're going to be taking at least a $1.5 million dead cap penalty on Campbell regardless, that's what his buyout is. They may try to go with Skinner and a cheaper guy like Nedjelkovic, and I certainly wouldn't blame them for that, but I wonder if they'd have trouble finding a 1B guy for Skinner considering it's Edmonton.

But regardless, I think it's most likely that the Penguins would get a goalie back in a Jarry trade. I don't think Samsonov would make much sense because I doubt the Penguins move Jarry without taking a goalie back.

 

[Gurglesons]

Campbell definitely appears to be a potential reclamation project and it can be argued that Edmonton is the outlier in his career.

I'm just skeptical that Edmonton is going to be willing to take on Jarry at full freight AND retain on Campbell's contract, especially with Skinner being only 25 and costing just $2.5 million.

How can it be argued that Edmonton is an outlier? Dude sucked outside of like a 60 game sample with the Leafs and Kings in highly favorable defensive environments.

 

[The Old Master]

Turning on Jarry is the best move Mike Sullivan has made as a coach since 19-20.

i wonder what jarry said to him? because you know it wasn't his play.

 

[Andy99]

Not a goalie…next topic: Graves lol

 

[molon labe]

Not a goalie…next topic: Graves lol

I could almost stomach another season of Jarry more easily than another season of Graves.

Edit: I really, really, really want to see Jarry shipped out. So...yeah maybe that's not true. But it feels true lol.

 

[Nakawick]

There's honestly a lot of goalies sort of floating around.

Markstrom in Calgary (maybe a bigger deal available there??)

I was going to post something similar. The Pens and Flames could be good trade partners. I am not 100% sure of the Flames needs or what direction they are moving in, but I would entertain something like Jarry and Graves for Huberdeau with a bit of retention. Just spit balling.

 

[molon labe]

I was going to post something similar. The Pens and Flames could be good trade partners. I am not 100# sure of the Flames needs or what direction they are moving in, but I would entertain something like Jarry and Graves for Huberdeau with a bit of retention. Just spit balling.

The trades available this Summer are likely not going to be sexy. But they're going to (hopefully) come from some place rooted in logic and necessity.

Calgary is on speed-dial if I'm Dubas. They seemingly want a fresh start - so they'd probably be open to a younger player(s), pick(s) and the contracts / immediate competitiveness won't matter as much.

When we try to trade with an up and up team it becomes challenging because they're a lot less likely to play ball. See San Jose. They were ready to tank another year. I think Calgary might be ready for that and I would love for us to target several of their guys. I might even take a chance on JH as you / I / others have talked about and as you mentioned here. He's a playmaker. 10M means we would absolutely need to be sending 'bad' or neutral money back. But Markstrom, Kadri, JH.... they should be available. Not all of our targets will be.

 

[BusinessGoose]

i wonder what jarry said to him? because you know it wasn't his play.

He overheard jarry talking mad shit

"I dunno, Puus, I don't think Samuel Adams is a very good beer"

 

[molon labe]

(CGY) N.Kadri
(SEA) Y.Gourde
(FL) S.Bennett

Would be good targets. I don't know their availability per se. I don't see any reason Kadri isn't available though. I think the hesitation on him would be that he's 33 going on 34 so may just have to avoid that unless the deal is a hell of a deal.

I mean we're really only looking for a 2-3 compete right? So what would any contract matter if we at some point are looking at the cap floor anyway. Idk. Not the best thinking but probably not inaccurate either.


Not sure what the likes of Reinhart, Guentzel, Tarasenko will command in FA. How much of their next few weeks will change any of it.

I keep leaning to a 2C candidate because I feel that it's a genuine need - but if we don't go that route it's going to need to be a playmaker coming in or someone to free up some ice.

 

[SEALBound]

Markstrom had an .892 save percentage 2 years ago. He's a great example of why we shouldn't be so quick to think a different goalie is going to be a better goalie than what we've already got.

If Hellebuyck or Vasilevskiy were available I'd be all for setting Jarry adrift on an iceflow, but even the current "best available option" is straight up unreliable.

This is an interesting discussion point though - if guys like Markstrom can go 0.892 in any given season, why would we want to dedicate good money to goaltending given how fickle it can be? With where the league is at with goaltending, what you are hoping to get is "good enough" goaltending on any given night. You hope that the offense can score 3 and you hope that the goalie only let's in 2 or less. On games where you are getting 5-6 goals, you hope they only let in 4-5. In that sense, who cares what the numbers are as long as you are getting the win.

Campbell definitely appears to be a potential reclamation project and it can be argued that Edmonton is the outlier in his career.

I'm just skeptical that Edmonton is going to be willing to take on Jarry at full freight AND retain on Campbell's contract, especially with Skinner being only 25 and costing just $2.5 million.

I don't think Pittsburgh is where you come to revitalized your goaltending career. Dman, maybe. Goalie or forward? No.

 

[Gurglesons]

I could almost stomach another season of Jarry more easily than another season of Graves.

Edit: I really, really, really want to see Jarry shipped out. So...yeah maybe that's not true. But it feels true lol.

Graves can be an effective 3rd line defenseman that PKs.

Jesse is using Jfresh stats to paint a picture of him, but the Penguins sucked as a whole at everything Graves sucked at.

 

[Andy99]

Graves can be an effective 3rd line defenseman that PKs.

Jesse is using Jfresh stats to paint a picture of him, but the Penguins sucked as a whole at everything Graves sucked at.

You’re not paying a guy $4.5 M to be a third pairing guy… that’s second pair material

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Georgiyev has had a poor year this year, but he had a .918 save% and finished 7th in Vezina voting last year. Goaltending is very voodoo.

He hasn't been able to make a save almost his entire career, except for the times he's had a juggernaut in front of him. His contract is his only saving grace.

How can it be argued that Edmonton is an outlier? Dude sucked outside of like a 60 game sample with the Leafs and Kings in highly favorable defensive environments.

Indeed. And Pens next year will be a worse team than the above mentioned.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't really see any issue with Graves-St. Ivany as the 3rd pair. They will need to get another top-4 LD to play with Letang, but they should have the cap space to do that. I don't mean him specifically, but I'd want to target a Cole caliber of defenseman to make the D pairs:

Pettersson-Karlsson
Cole-Letang
Graves-St. Ivany
Ludvig

You’re not paying a guy $4.5 M to be a third pairing guy… that’s second pair material

The Penguins have paid all of Schultz, Maatta, Matheson and Pettersson $4 million or more while playing them on the bottom pair.