Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: Dr Strangedubas "Tankination" is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face."

[Empoleon8771]

Alex Lyon is making 900k.

Also Alex Lyon had a great year end run last year too.

Jarry obviously has his issues, I just think fans are not paying attention to how many other teams also have goalies with massive issues.

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

Jarry to Utah for flat out whatever the f*** n some shit.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Ned is getting the start tonight in a meaningless game.

I think Jarry might have played his last game in a Pens uniform.

Eh...I don't know if I would take this bet. Seems like a 50-50 prop

Leaving Jarry on the bench in the last game after handing the starting job to Ned over the past month - without giving Ned any rest - certainly sends a message IMO. Sullivan doesn't want him as the starter anymore.

Which is hilarious bc Sully endorsed Jarry and likely influenced Dubas to re-sign him.
Again, Sully gets to wash his hands of these messes every damn time. People lap this shit up

 

[Goalie_Bob]

Here is the list of the potential UFA goaltenders that played more than 20 games this season.

Interesting that they all signed 1 year deals and with new teams except for Lankinen.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Again, I'm not trying to pretend Jarry doesn't have any issues and he's actually this great goalie. Every issue brought up by reasonable fans in here with him is legitimate. He is a flawed goalie that has shown a constant trend with breaking down as the year goes on. All of that is true.

What is also true is that the status of goaltending around the league right now is downright terrible, with numerous highly paid goalies being even worse than Jarry. In the NHL right now, there are 22 goalies making $4.5 million or more. Of those 22:

-4 of those goalies did not play a game in the NHL this year (Price, Murray, Lehner and Knight)
-8 of those goalies had a .900 save% or worse this year (Vasilevskiy, Gibson, Grubauer, Merzlikins, Kuemper, Petersen, Campbell and Husso)
-Only 7 of those goalies had a .910 save% or better this year (Bobrovsky, Hellebuyck, Binnington, Shesterkin, Ullmark, Demko and Hill)

Jarry's .903 save% this year is extremely similar to Markstrom's .905 save% this year, and Markstrom was allegedly almost traded at the deadline to 2 different teams that he nixed with his NTC. I just can't see how Jarry's either uniquely bad or had a uniquely bad contract to make me think that he'd be unmovable. Leaguewide goaltending just sucks right now.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think people are going WAY overboard with Nedjelkovic. He finished this year with a .904 save% and his super hot run down the stretch had him at a .903 save%. He just happened to be playing games for the Penguins while they were scoring a ton of goals.

Anyone who gives him a huge deal would be a downright moron. He's a 1B goalie who had a decent (not good, just decent) year this year. I'd have no issues with re-signing him, but that "re-signing" would be like 2 years at $3 million a year.

I'm less concerned about the pay as I am the term for Ned.

Giving Jarry a $5M contract was probably the market rate. Giving him a 5 year deal was absolutely idiotic and made a slight overpay into a bad contract.

An immutable rule in today's NHL: you absolutely do not give goalies term. You can eat or retain on a big number for a couple of years. You shouldn't be doing it for more than 3. Dumb dumb dumb

 

[molon labe]

I think people are going WAY overboard with Nedjelkovic. He finished this year with a .904 save% and his super hot run down the stretch had him at a .903 save%. He just happened to be playing games for the Penguins while they were scoring a ton of goals.

Anyone who gives him a huge deal would be a downright moron. He's a 1B goalie who had a decent (not good, just decent) year this year. I'd have no issues with re-signing him, but that "re-signing" would be like 2 years at $3 million a year.

Same same with Jarry. That dude actually had a track record of shit play + shit playoffs.

The point is to keep Ned at 1-2 years on the cheap. There is literally one single goalie in this league I'd give term and cash to- and that's Hellebuyck. The rest of them are wishy washy and have proven to be so. GMs just can't help themselves and think they require that "number 1 guy".

Two quotes I liked recently:
1 - Someone on this board talked about just signing a handful of goalies from Europe each year and riding the hot hands.

2 - Someone on the radio talked about the watered down goalies in the NHL. Seemingly Forward talent has gone through the roof where fourth line guys are performing like former 1st line guys - but goaltending has been on a downward spiral. The only Vezina guys that get talked about just so happen to be on winning clubs. You don't see Carey Price carrying a bad team you see a good team carrying an Ullmark, Vasi, MAF, etc. Suddenly those guys go ice cold and your left with 10M on the bench.

(Edit) A third quote was that backup called up the other night for I forgot what team - who said there's a lot of goalies/players that just need a chance. I love that and hate the fact the league is the way it is. Harkins plays over whomever. Ruh plays over St Ivany. Goalies get rotated like head coaches. Yet you have how many professional hockey leagues worldwide? Can't find guys that'll give it a go? Just because a scout passed them up? Stupid thinking tbh. For forwards I might even say your fourth line should ALWAYS have spots in it. Hell maybe your wings on 3rd line as well.

So yeah - probably the biggest reason I HATED (and still HATE) the Jarry contract. He is literally a platoon goalie. I'd rather we just platoon cheaper since the forward group needs so much damn help.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Same same with Jarry. That dude actually had a track record of shit play + shit playoffs.

Jarry does have a track record of shit playoff play, but his regular season track record is absolutely good and calling it "shit" is insanely inaccurate. His worst season statistically was this year, where he was still at a league average save% and a positive GSAx.

I'm not disagreeing with moving on from Jarry to go cheaper, I just think fans need to put his performance and contract in perspective with what goaltending around the rest of the league is right now.

 

[molon labe]

Jarry does have a track record of shit playoff play, but his regular season track record is absolutely good and calling it "shit" is insanely inaccurate.

His worst season statistically was this year, where he was still at a league average save% and a positive GSAx.

That's fine if the season counted as such. But letting in backbreaking goals time and again and literally being inept at stealing games counts for something.

He averages out to be what's considered a good goalie. Thank God. Because in reality he has great games (where the team in front of him is playing hard) - then a whole bunch of bad games (especially down the stretch).

I don't look at season ending stats and think, yep, he's good. Because when you watch the story unfold, he's a huge part of the reason it went the way it did. Dude could not help himself but let in breakaway after breakaway (became a joke around here). Confidence IS a thing for NHL clubs. They had no confidence in that dude and the proof is in the pudding.

Similar reason for hating on Smith. Are his numbers bad? No. But we all know the story on that one. Dude wasn't a fit and not a guy that really brought anything to the club. But it's not like Huberdeau where you see the stats and think what the hell based on $.

These arguments went full circle on contract day. Was a shit signing then just as it is now. Hindsight be damned.

 

[Sideline]

Jarry does have a track record of shit playoff play, but his regular season track record is absolutely good and calling it "shit" is insanely inaccurate. His worst season statistically was this year, where he was still at a league average save% and a positive GSAx.

I'm not disagreeing with moving on from Jarry to go cheaper, I just think fans need to put his performance and contract in perspective with what goaltending around the rest of the league is right now.

I agree with everything here. Jarry isn't anything elite, but there aren't 10 goalies in the world that you can bank on being better than he was for us this season. There just aren't 32 reliable starters in the NHL.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I never played goalie beyond the occasional pickup game, but it’s seems like a position that translates easier between leagues, once you adjust for the quicker speed/smaller ice of the NA game. Goalies of the board, what do you think?

 

[Empoleon8771]

That's fine if the season counted as such. But letting in backbreaking goals time and again and literally being inept at stealing games counts for something.

He averages out to be what's considered a good goalie. Thank God. Because in reality he has great games (where the team in front of him is playing hard) - then a whole bunch of bad games (especially down the stretch).

I don't look at season ending stats and think, yep, he's good. Because when you watch the story unfold, he's a huge part of the reason it went the way it did. Dude could not help himself but let in breakaway after breakaway (became a joke around here). Confidence IS a thing for NHL clubs. They had no confidence in that dude and the proof is in the pudding.

Similar reason for hating on Smith. Are his numbers bad? No. But we all know the story on that one. Dude wasn't a fit and not a guy that really brought anything to the club. But it's not like Huberdeau where you see the stats and think what the hell based on $.

These arguments went full circle on contract day. Was a shit signing then just as it is now. Hindsight be damned.

You're proving my point that people in here don't evaluate Jarry's performance relative to the rest of the league. Jarry has flaws and those flaws are well established. No one is denying that he falters down the stretch, because there is a large sample size of data that supports it. No one is denying that his playoff track record sucks, because there is a large sample size of data that supports it.

But even with all of those faults, the reality is that leaguewide goaltending is shit right now. A goalie with Jarry's highs and lows is still a better goalie than at least 10 teams have in the NHL.

I never played goalie beyond the occasional pickup game, but it’s seems like a position that translates easier between leagues, once you adjust for the quicker speed/smaller ice of the NA game. Goalies of the board, what do you think?

100% true. The talent level difference between goalies in the pros is substantially smaller than the talent difference between skaters in the pros.

You could put out an ECHL goalie in the NHL and he'd put up like an .870 save% over a full season. That sucks, but it's still playable. If you put an ECHL skater in the NHL, they'd be lucky to get 5 points over a full season.

 

[SEALBound]

I love that Sullivan turned on the guy for whom he vouched which is why Dubas gave him a five year deal.

If this was a serious franchise that would be a question I'd ask the head coach in his exit interview.

When the coach and GM are not on the same page, you get Granlund.

When the coach and GM are on the same page, you get Jarry.

...wait, what?

 

[molon labe]

You're proving my point that people in here don't evaluate Jarry's performance relative to the rest of the league. Jarry has flaws and those flaws are well established. No one is denying that he falters down the stretch, because there is a large sample size of data that supports it. No one is denying that his playoff track record sucks, because there is a large sample size of data that supports it.

But even with all of those faults, the reality is that leaguewide goaltending is shit right now. A goalie with Jarry's highs and lows is still a better goalie than at least 10 teams have in the NHL.



100% true. The talent level difference between goalies in the pros is substantially smaller than the talent difference between skaters in the pros.

You could put out an ECHL goalie in the NHL and he'd put up like an .870 save% over a full season. That sucks, but it's still playable. If you put an ECHL skater in the NHL, they'd be lucky to get 5 points over a full season.

Great, let's trade him to one of those clubs.

Dude isn't what this team needs. Hasn't been.

When you're riding your backup down the stretch, you have issues. This team has many issues, but that's certainly one of them. Last time we did that it was Matt Murray due to injury and he took the starting role. Ned did that with Jarry still healthy then being injured and they kept Ned in the crease.

Time for a change there. There's no reason to keep him. If your personal reason is that there is worse - that's the same argument for keeping Sullivan and I don't think you agree to that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Great, let's trade him to one of those clubs.

Dude isn't what this team needs. Hasn't been.

When you're riding your backup down the stretch, you have issues. This team has many issues, but that's certainly one of them. Last time we did that it was Matt Murray due to injury and he took the starting role. Ned did that with Jarry still healthy then being injured and they kept Ned in the crease.

Time for a change there. There's no reason to keep him. If your personal reason is that there is worse - that's the same argument for keeping Sullivan and I don't think you agree to that.

I am literally not arguing to keep Jarry. Go read through my other posts on the goalie talk in the last 2 pages.

I'm saying that their situation with trading Jarry isn't as dire as what other fans are saying. Jarry has his issues, but there is no reason to think they couldn't trade him because so many other teams have terrible goaltending.

 

[Sideline]

I never played goalie beyond the occasional pickup game, but it’s seems like a position that translates easier between leagues, once you adjust for the quicker speed/smaller ice of the NA game. Goalies of the board, what do you think?

I've only ever been ice level (not even the goalie) with 4th liner or 3rd pair NHL types and it is crazy how much better they are than even "really good" former college or CHL guys that are probably close to Euro/AHL talent level.

There is no such thing as a bad pass to an NHLer. Buddy I grew up with had us firing our slappers at his feet while he was in stride so he could practice taking passes in the summer. He wouldn't take anything harder than a writer from inside the blue line because he didn't want to injury the goalie.

This guy had an ok NHL career but think much more Matt Nieto than Michael Nylander.

 

[molon labe]

I am literally not arguing to keep Jarry. Go read through my other posts on the goalie talk in the last 2 pages.

I'm saying that their situation with trading Jarry isn't as dire as what other fans are saying. Jarry has his issues, but there is no reason to think they couldn't trade him because so many other teams have terrible goaltending.

I don't think it's dire (in the sense he's an anchor - though I'd say it's pressing that we should find someone else) so I'm not lumped into that.

Not sure anything is dire outside of a coaching fire-sale. I think most here would agree an entire new FO means playoffs.

Competing? That's where we debate players and usages. Assuming Sully gets canned (which is a big assumption) - that's where I argue for moving Jarry and spending the money more wisely. Moving the players I've mentioned. Starting fresh in many areas.

 

[SEALBound]

Here is the list of the potential UFA goaltenders that played more than 20 games this season.

View attachment 853838

Interesting that they all signed 1 year deals and with new teams except for Lankinen.

Thanks for posting that. As I said, you have your choice of an aged out veteran with ok numbers or career backups that you hope that take the starting role.
None of those names should be inspiring confidence (Neds, to an extent, included).

 

[Empoleon8771]

If they trade Jarry, I would imagine it would be something like Jarry for a cheaper goalie straight up (something like Jarry for Blackwood) or Jarry for an expensive goalie plus some more value (something like Jarry for Husso and a draft pick).

I'd probably prefer to not get the pick and just get the cheaper platoon goalie, but if you could get like Husso and a 2nd for Jarry from Detroit, I'd be super tempted to pull the trigger on that.

 

[Jacob]

There's only like 4-6 teams in any given off-season even needing a starter, and of those some might not even have the cap space for one. Or they might just be tanking and not need one.

I could see him going to Edmonton with garbage like Campbell coming back + assets, if we're willing to stomach that.

 

[molon labe]

There's only like 4-6 teams in any given off-season even needing a starter, and of those some might not even have the cap space for one. Or they might just be tanking and not need one.

I could see him going to Edmonton with garbage like Campbell coming back + assets, if we're willing to stomach that.

There's honestly a lot of goalies sort of floating around.

Markstrom in Calgary (maybe a bigger deal available there??)

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think another idea I could see making sense is Jarry to Colorado for Georgiyev, especially if Georgiyev struggles in the playoffs this year like he did in the regular season. He's coming off a bad year (.897 save% and -12 GSAA in 63 games) and is allegedly causing issues in the Avs locker room with some of his antics. Just a few weeks ago, he shot a puck into the crowd out of frustration and got the Avs a penalty for it, and Bednar immediately pulled him and benched him for that.

I don't know that Colorado would have Jarry at the top of their list, but I think they'd absolutely look at upgrading their goalie if Georgiyev stinks in the playoffs this year.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I think another idea I could see making sense is Jarry to Colorado for Georgiyev, especially if Georgiyev struggles in the playoffs this year like he did in the regular season. He's coming off a bad year (.897 save% and -12 GSAA in 63 games) and is allegedly causing issues in the Avs locker room with some of his antics. Just a few weeks ago, he shot a puck into the crowd out of frustration and got the Avs a penalty for it, and Bednar immediately pulled him and benched him for that.

I don't know that Colorado would have Jarry at the top of their list, but I think they'd absolutely look at upgrading their goalie if Georgiyev stinks in the playoffs this year.

Sounds like a guy we really want! The add on their side would have to be a hell of an add.

I will not be frequenting the board over the summer when Ned signs somewhere else and Pens hang onto Jarry and grab someone else for the backup role.

 

[molon labe]

Might need a goalie specific thread this Summer.

Very curious what the top 6 shift will be.

I want it to be a new 2C to shift Malkin to wing or have a hybrid line 2 x 2 (two lines twos) where Geno and the new C split time if Geno has to stay at C. Eller could not / can not be that guy. Kadri has been the dream but I understand age concerns especially after this season we just had.

If it's not that, I'd like it to be a dynamic scorer or two. I've had my eye on Tarasenko but he may command too much depending on his playoffs. If you could get a guy like that [cough, last year] on a 1-3 year deal you do it. Marner is the pipe dream, or Brady Tkachuk. Then there's always Jake/Reinhart...I just don't know with those two. The reason I like Kadri is the reason I'm a little shy with those two. Goals are nice, but when they dry up what the hell do those two add? At least Kadri will muck it up. That's the general idea. Another Bunting type but better.

Sounds like a guy we really want! The add on their side would have to be a hell of an add.

I will not be frequenting the board over the summer when Ned signs somewhere else and Pens hang onto Jarry and grab someone else for the backup role.

He would be. He makes 3.4M for only 1 more season. Ripe for a breakout season to earn another contract. If he stinks? You are going to platoon him anyway. Better than Jarry for 5.3 for another 4 seasons.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Sounds like a guy we really want! The add on their side would have to be a hell of an add.

I will not be frequenting the board over the summer when Ned signs somewhere else and Pens hang onto Jarry and grab someone else for the backup role.

Georgiyev has had a poor year this year, but he had a .918 save% and finished 7th in Vezina voting last year. Goaltending is very voodoo.

The reason to make the swap from the Penguins POV is that Georgiyev is cheaper and signed for shorter, while it's reasonable to believe that he'll give a similar performance to Jarry's 2023-2024 season next year.