Salary Cap: Pens Salary Cap Thread: Dr Strangedubas "Tankination" is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face."

[SEALBound]

Probably costs 6+

At least. He's the kind of guy someone will overpay for because of a massive shortage on centers (again).

But if that's who we want, if you can send out Nieto, Acciari, and potentially Jarry, I don't see why they couldn't afford that. I think it would mean dedicating themselves to riding or dying with some young kids - DOC, Puustinen, Poulin, Pono to name a few.

Gaining an offensive-minded 3C and shifting Eller to 4C while duping Nieto and Acciari should be the #1 priority this summer. I can stomach keeping Jarry and Graves even if it means a shift to three scoring lines and one defensive line. I don't know what they plan to do with Smith though. Seems like the second you send him out, a Top 6 LW becomes your biggest need. But I would be willing to do some horse trading. Smith for a back up goalie, Jarry for a young wing type thing.

DOC-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
Trade-Stephenson-Puustinen/Pono
Poulin-Eller-Puljujarvi

POJ-Letang
Petts-EK
Graves-JSI
Shea

Neds-Blom-BUG

Something like that. If you are okay running with the likes of Puustinen, Pono, Poulin, Puljujarvi, JSI, Shea, Bloms, Neds...that REALLY opens the door to the types of trades and even signings you can make. That roster there has $10mil in cap space with the assumptions that Puust, Poulin, JSI, and Shea get 900k, Steph gets $6mil, Neds gets $3mil, and the trade is a RFA/ELC guy - but obviously there's A LOT of room there. In my CF, I did Jarry for Holtz just because. So if you're rocking a Holtz-Stephenson-Puustinen third line, I think you're doing well.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I do believe Dubas will target teams with cap issues, so we may be able to squeeze out a Necas or something, but that's the exception not the norm.

Shouldn't be a ton of teams with cap issues as it's going up a fair amount

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean, I get it. It's just shitty locking into half-decade long contracts for guys who don't move the needle. All signing Stephenson does is continue the tradition of the past few years.

I'm not gonna be mad if they sign him, but it doesn't really do anything except grab another guy whose caliber the team's constantly had like four of for years.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Shouldn't be a ton of teams with cap issues as it's going up a fair amount

Probably true, but I remember reading/hearing Carolina has decisions to make, and they have a ton of young talent.

Ultimately it means we are likely fighting for 28+ UFAs (or 30+).

What confuses me is why don't go after the problem children out there...
Drouin
DeAngelo
Evander Kane (sure he may be too old now)

I mean, we're all about reclamation projects! Always have been.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Personally I’d blow everything up and rebuild. I don’t see the Pens contending until they do so— as such, every year they wait to rebuild is an extra year away from contention. Personally think that is the reality- a full blow tank/build up is the quickest way back to a Cup. Not more lipstick on a pig or half measures.

If we’re admitting that we’re not allowed to do that I would do similar to what the Caps have done - fire coach, force new guy to play a million youngsters. Maybe sign a big ticket FA if possible.

 

[orby]

At this point I am assuming the past month or so has ensured Sullivan's job security - much to my chagrin - but they've gotta fire Rierden at minimum, right? Someone else needs to be in charge of this power play. It is the reason the Pens aren't comfortably in a playoff spot right now. It doesn't matter who they sign if they can't score with the man advantage; they'll just keep sucking.

 

[SEALBound]

I mean, I get it. It's just shitty locking into half-decade long contracts for guys who don't move the needle. All signing Stephenson does is continue the tradition of the past few years.

I'm not gonna be mad if they sign him, but it doesn't really do anything except grab another guy whose caliber the team's constantly had like four of for years.

I get that sentiment but at the same time - there are only so many players available. We like to say things like "they need to make a trade and bring in an impact player that will move the needle" while not acknowledging how few of them actually exist.

I think they will still want to compete but they will say "we're getting younger. Here's what we have. We hope to compete".

But I can see a move like Stephenson or TT or even a trade for Necas as a move to bolster those competing chances. They're just off-setting it with younger guys like Poulin, Puustinen, Pono, etc.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Personally I’d blow everything up and rebuild. I don’t see the Pens contending until they do so— as such, every year they wait to rebuild is an extra year away from contention. Personally think that is the reality- a full blow tank/build up is the quickest way back to a Cup. Not more lipstick on a pig or half measures.

If we’re admitting that we’re not allowed to do that I would do similar to what the Caps have done - fire coach, force new guy to play a million youngsters. Maybe sign a big ticket FA if possible.

Half the East is hot trash and Sid's producing at the highest level someone his age has (and remained healthy), and they're fighting tooth and nail to make the playoffs just to be a sacrificial lamb in the 1st round.

Even if they're too cowardly (and dumb) to pull the plug on the era, like you said, nuke the coaching staff and play young guys in-system moving forward. I think they're all kinda shit tbh, but it's better paying for younger guys who maybe kinda suck but maybe kinda have upside than paying like 3-5x the amount for old guys who definitely suck and definitely have no upside in the bottom-6.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Stephenson is 10000% not signing with a mediocre and aging team to be the 3C, when he'll assuredly have 2C opportunities elsewhere.

 

[Darren McCord]

At least. He's the kind of guy someone will overpay for because of a massive shortage on centers (again).

But if that's who we want, if you can send out Nieto, Acciari, and potentially Jarry, I don't see why they couldn't afford that. I think it would mean dedicating themselves to riding or dying with some young kids - DOC, Puustinen, Poulin, Pono to name a few.

Gaining an offensive-minded 3C and shifting Eller to 4C while duping Nieto and Acciari should be the #1 priority this summer. I can stomach keeping Jarry and Graves even if it means a shift to three scoring lines and one defensive line. I don't know what they plan to do with Smith though. Seems like the second you send him out, a Top 6 LW becomes your biggest need. But I would be willing to do some horse trading. Smith for a back up goalie, Jarry for a young wing type thing.

DOC-Crosby-Rust
Bunting-Malkin-Rakell
Trade-Stephenson-Puustinen/Pono
Poulin-Eller-Puljujarvi

POJ-Letang
Petts-EK
Graves-JSI
Shea

Neds-Blom-BUG

Something like that. If you are okay running with the likes of Puustinen, Pono, Poulin, Puljujarvi, JSI, Shea, Bloms, Neds...that REALLY opens the door to the types of trades and even signings you can make. That roster there has $10mil in cap space with the assumptions that Puust, Poulin, JSI, and Shea get 900k, Steph gets $6mil, Neds gets $3mil, and the trade is a RFA/ELC guy - but obviously there's A LOT of room there. In my CF, I did Jarry for Holtz just because. So if you're rocking a Holtz-Stephenson-Puustinen third line, I think you're doing well.

O'Connor looks like a guy who could be a 25 - 25 player next year and that would be huge. He looks so much better right now then the beginning of the year.

That is what happens when guys get a chance to develop. Poulin coming up and playing 5min does nothing. If you can get rid of sully and give young guys a chance you don't have to spend 16 million on Smith, Carter, Eller, Accari and Nieto in your bottom 6.

Stephenson is 10000% not signing with a mediocre and aging team to be the 3C, when he'll assuredly have 2C opportunities elsewhere.

I mean he will go to who pays him the most. Also you could bring him in and move Malkin to LW if you brought in a coach that had the balls to do it.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Every single spring and summer we all post these super ambitious ideas of how to pull this dogshit organization out of the nosedive they're so intent on being in, and every year the reality is "Here's four years of Brock McGinn and we re-signed Kaspari f***ing Kapanen for no real reason, but we're still trying super duper hard to compete--pinky promise guys!"

-edit- Don't forget the "We can't fire Sullivan because then we'd be looking to hire Sullivan." or "We have agreed to a contract extension for Mike Sullivan two years before his current deal is even up, after his fourth consecutive 1st round embarrassment."

 

[HandshakeLine]

Every year DOC looks like he's ready to make a jump to be a 40-50 point guy, and every year he... doesn't. Kid is 25, he's either a very late bloomer or he's exactly what he is now.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Nobody loves 30 year old, ~50pt players making $5M+ quite like the Pens and their fans.

That's because we're used to prime Sid/Geno turning those guys into Stanley Cup winning wingers.

We've got to realize they're not capable of doing that any longer and stop clamoring for them to flank Sid/Geno.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Every year DOC looks like he's ready to make a jump to be a 40-50 point guy, and every year he... doesn't. Kid is 25, he's either a very late bloomer or he's exactly what he is now.

He isn't far away and he gets 0 PP time. Which is fine. He is an even strength player.

 

[HandshakeLine]

He isn't far away and he gets 0 PP time. Which is fine. He is an even strength player.

I'm not saying it as a knock on DOC. But I also don't think he puts up 33 points on any serious contender. He's a top 9 guy that we over rely on because the our cupboards are so bare and our wingers are underwhelming, save Bunting (who will probably fall off in the usual Pens pattern).

I think we should definitely sign him and I much prefer seeing him in the top 6 other than Smith or Rackell or whomever but people keep hoping for him to make this huge breakout and... it's just not going to happen, I think.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'm not saying it as a knock on DOC. But I also don't think he puts up 33 points on any serious contender. He's a top 9 guy that we over rely on because the our cupboards are so bare and our wingers are underwhelming, save Bunting (who will probably fall off in the usual Pens pattern).

I think we should definitely sign him and I much prefer seeing him in the top 6 other than Smith or Rackell or whomever but people keep hoping for him to make this huge breakout and... it's just not going to happen, I think.

Save Rust also.
I like DOC. I don't think he is great, but he is good and cheap.

 

[HandshakeLine]

But I dunno, I'd like to be wrong and maybe he'll have a huge breakout next year?

Save Rust also.
I like DOC. I don't think he is great, but he is good and cheap.

I mean, at some point... he won't be cheap, that's the problem. He's exactly the kind of player this team loves to overpay ala McGinn.

 

[chethejet]

Pens can move Smith here and have 17 million in cap space for a 3rd LW, better LD and sign Ned if possible. Jarry may be moved here as that contract is not all that bad. In short, fix the staff, maybe get lucky with a top 10 pick and upgrade size. speed and coaching. Sullivan can be limited with the roster Dubas provides. No more of what Sullivan wants. Time to move to a NHL caliber roster that fits 2024.

 

[ChaosAgent]

But I dunno, I'd like to be wrong and maybe he'll have a huge breakout next year?


I mean, at some point... he won't be cheap, that's the problem. He's exactly the kind of player this team loves to overpay ala McGinn.

He would be well worth it at $3m AAV. At $5m maybe not.

 

[Sidgeni Malkby]

Every year DOC looks like he's ready to make a jump to be a 40-50 point guy, and every year he... doesn't. Kid is 25, he's either a very late bloomer or he's exactly what he is now.

Power forwards often take time to develop. Assuming that's how you label him.

This is the 1st year Sully didn't have him on a short leash, or treated like a spare part. You have to give young players responsibility and expect them to fail a few times before becoming comfortable and confident to succeed.

I actually didn't expect DOC to become a top-6 but something changed in him, and I will admit that I could have been wrong about him.

 

[HandshakeLine]

He would be well worth it at $3m AAV. At $5m maybe not.

Yeah, exactly. Again, we'll see how Dubas does with him next year, but for now, great bang for the buck. 33 points at hypothetical 4.5 million though... not such a good bargain.

Power forwards often take time to develop. Assuming that's how you label him.

This is the 1st year Sully didn't have him on a short leash, or treated like a spare part. You have to give young players responsibility and expect them to fail a few times before becoming comfortable and confident to succeed.

I actually didn't expect DOC to become a top-6 but something changed in him, and I will admit that I could have been wrong about him.

He's 25 already, will be 26 in June. I know players take time to develop, but realistically, most players also don't do huge breakout years around 26-28 years old. It's possible he'll be an exception or that we'll be such a weak team that he can get roles here he wouldn't have elsewhere, but odds are really against him suddenly putting it all together over the offseason.

 

[Gurglesons]

Every year DOC looks like he's ready to make a jump to be a 40-50 point guy, and every year he... doesn't. Kid is 25, he's either a very late bloomer or he's exactly what he is now.

We gonna be mad about a 16 goal and 33 point 900k winger who can play PK?

 

[HandshakeLine]

We gonna be mad about a 16 goal and 33 point 900k winger who can play PK?

No, not at all. Just kind of skeptical that he's going to go much higher than 33 points. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I'm just not seeing the whole 50-point 25/25 player that people claim is lurking in DOC.

Also, lol, pking is for suckas.

 

[molon labe]

Personally I’d blow everything up and rebuild. I don’t see the Pens contending until they do so— as such, every year they wait to rebuild is an extra year away from contention. Personally think that is the reality- a full blow tank/build up is the quickest way back to a Cup. Not more lipstick on a pig or half measures.

If we’re admitting that we’re not allowed to do that I would do similar to what the Caps have done - fire coach, force new guy to play a million youngsters. Maybe sign a big ticket FA if possible.

Plenty of teams have tried organic growth just for it to be thrown in their face.

Or they've overpaid their homegrown talent (Montreal) because they felt like they took 'the next step' and in reality were just better than the rest of their crap.

The best way is rarely to blow it up. It can be the best way when you see a Crosby/McDavid/Bedard on the horizon and work your cap accordingly. Otherwise the best thing to do is just not spend your entire life savings on a whole bunch of MID.

Graves was a disaster of a signing and so was Jarry. Smith and Rakell should have been dealt. It's the same names over and over. It's not just 20 year old teams competing - in fact they rarely do any good. The best thing you can do is have veteran talent on your roster tbh - just not 35+ veterans.

I hate to use the word retool - but frankly that's all that's needed. New coach, new system, new players. Semantically call it whatever the hell you want. But when I hear 'blow it up' I assume that includes Sid or something. If not, then yeah - sell everything not bolted down. I'd start the new team with Sid/Geno/Karlsson/Bunting/Ned and go from there, personally.

 

[Gurglesons]

No, not at all. Just kind of skeptical that he's going to go much higher than 33 points. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I'm just not seeing the whole 50-point 25/25 player that people claim is lurking in DOC.

Also, lol, pking is for suckas.

Those people are idiots.

I could see him hitting 20 and 20 though in the right usage.