Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[Dipsy Doodle]

The NHL not removing his cap from the books and he gets suspended indefinitely.

What leads you to believe the cap hit wouldn't be removed? It's been removed during his other suspensions in the player assistance program.

Voynov's cap hit was removed when he was suspended and never returned to the NHL, despite signing a long-term deal the tear before.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What leads you to believe the cap hit wouldn't be removed? It's been removed during his other suspensions in the player assistance program.

Voynov's cap hit was removed when he was suspended and never returned to the NHL, despite signing a long-term deal the tear before.

Bobby Ryan's cap hit counted towards the Senators when he was in the player's assistance program in 2019.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

We still want Andersen to be our f***ing starter? Holy f*** what a loser.

 

[Ryder71]

So lets review shall we? Pittsburgh got KOIVUNEN, Bunting, Pono, Cruz (meh) and Pick 44th OA this year. What did the Canes get?

Carolina gets NOTHING!



Thank you Kyle!

 

[DesertedPenguin]

No first round pick for the Pens and they just lost a fifth round pick. Canes blow 2-0, 3-1 leads in an elimination game. That means the Pens will get the Flyers' 2nd round pick (pick #44) as a result of the Guentzel trade instead of upgrading to the Canes' first. It also means the Pens will not get the Canes' 5th round pick, which they would have received if the Canes won it all.

So, barring future trades before the draft, the Pens have two 2nd round picks, one 4th, one 6th, and two 7ths.

 

[dueling mullets]

We still want Andersen to be our f***ing starter? Holy f*** what a loser.

f*** you Freddie Anderson

No f***in message needed f*** this f***ing fraud. Lost us the game tonight and was shit all series

forums.hfboards.com

 

[Empoleon8771]

If the Canes don't re-sign Guentzel, that Guentzel deal is going to end up pretty crappy for them. Granted all rentals inherently carry that level of risk, but 9 points in 11 games only to lose in the 2nd round seems pretty middling for what they paid.

 

[Ryder71]

No first round pick for the Pens and they just lost a fifth round pick. Canes blow 2-0, 3-1 leads in an elimination game. That means the Pens will get the Flyers' 2nd round pick (pick #44) as a result of the Guentzel trade instead of upgrading to the Canes' first. It also means the Pens will not get the Canes' 5th round pick, which they would have received if the Canes won it all.

So, barring future trades before the draft, the Pens have two 2nd round picks, one 4th, one 6th, and two 7ths.

44th and 46th OA.

But don't forget Koivunen, Bunting, Pono and the journey guy Cruz. That was a very good trade by the Pens, Bunting has already started paying dividends.

And the Canes did no better than without Jake, AS I SAID! LOL

Brindamour teams have ceilings, his system is very demanding and eventually his teams will have lapses and tire, again just like I said.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Jake Guentzel for Bunts and a second round pick, confirmed.

Kyle Doobler, folks.

 

[Gurglesons]

If the Canes don't re-sign Guentzel, that Guentzel deal is going to end up pretty crappy for them. Granted all rentals inherently carry that level of risk, but 9 points in 11 games only to lose in the 2nd round seems pretty middling for what they paid.

Gave up nothing of quality. Easy win for the Canes to acquire a player who put up like 25 points.

 

[Darren McCord]

Jake Guentzel for Bunts and a second round pick, confirmed.

Kyle Doobler, folks.

Ya forget about the 3 prospects.

Who wants prospects when you could have picks and get prospects with those picks!

Gave up nothing of quality. Easy win for the Canes to acquire a player who put up like 25 points.

Ya but canes still blow. Awful management

 

[66-30-33]

If the Canes don't re-sign Guentzel, that Guentzel deal is going to end up pretty crappy for them. Granted all rentals inherently carry that level of risk, but 9 points in 11 games only to lose in the 2nd round seems pretty middling for what they paid.

He will go to Colorado. If they can get out of the Nuke deal so will Marner.

 

[Gurglesons]

Ya but canes still blow. Awful management

How is it awful management?

They got out of a bad contract, gave up at best the 5th best prospect in their system and lost a 2nd round pick with a couple scratch offs for a player that scored 34 points for them over a like 35 game sample.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Gave up nothing of quality. Easy win for the Canes to acquire a player who put up like 25 points.

Who cares what regular season production they got out of him?

They got 9 points in 11 games out of him in the playoffs and lost in the 2nd round. That's inherently the risk with any sort of rental, but they absolutely didn't end up great off with that deal unless Guentzel re-signs.

Any team who pays a lot for a rental and doesn't end up winning ends up regretting what they paid for a rental.

 

[Gurglesons]

Who cares what regular season production they got out of him?

They got 9 points in 11 games out of him in the playoffs and lost in the 2nd round. That's inherently the risk with any sort of rental, but they absolutely didn't end up great off with that deal unless Guentzel re-signs.

They gave up nothing that matters for a great player.

Did we lose the Hossa deal?

 

[Empoleon8771]

They gave up nothing that matters for a great player.

Did we lose the Hossa deal?

1. The Penguins made the cup finals with Hossa, as opposed to losing in the 2nd round with the Canes.
2. The Penguins got Dupuis in that deal as well, who was a mainstay for the organization for like 8 years.

Had the Penguins not gotten Dupuis in that deal and lost in round 2 with Hossa, I absolutely would have said they lost the deal. Trading Armstrong, Christensen, Esposito and a 1st to have Hossa just to lose in the 2nd round would have absolutely been a losing deal.

 

[Darren McCord]

How is it awful management?

They got out of a bad contract, gave up at best the 5th best prospect in their system and lost a 2nd round pick with a couple scratch offs for a player that scored 34 points for them over a like 35 game sample.

The petty Kotkaniemi stuff. Now they are locked into that terrible contract. They should have address d depth cause Deangelo sucks too. But instead they retained money to get a pick when they should have used that money to make the team better.

I didn’t mean that deal alone just in general. Also continued to run with a crap goalie.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The reason the Canes "lost" the Guentzel deal is that they traded for him to go on a cup run, but they lost in the 2nd round. Even if you want to be disingenuous and argue that Koivunen and Ponomarev are nothing pieces (which Canes fans will tell you is wrong), the point is that they could have targeted bigger needs and/or longer term solutions than trading a lot for Guentzel. This is fundamentally the risk with any rentals, in that you losing means trading for the rental was pointless, but it's especially true with higher priced rentals.

Maybe you can argue that they didn't pay that much in terms of value for Guentzel, but the fact is that they paid that value to lose in the 2nd round and basically threw it away for nothing. The Canes would have made the 2nd round with or without Guentzel and trading what they traded for him didn't move the needle for them whatsoever. They basically gave up Bunting, 3 prospects (one of which is highly regarded by scouts) and a 2nd to not change how their season ended up going.

It's the same way that Shero would lose all of those deadline deals when he'd trade a 2nd and Caputi for Ponikarovsky or when JR lost deadline deals when he'd pay a 2nd for Winnik. Maybe they didn't pay anything that mattered, but they basically threw away assets that didn't tangibly move the needle for their team. With the Guentzel trade, they just gave up a lot for that. The purpose of that trade was to win a cup, not get a nice 15 game run of regular season production and then lose earlier in the playoffs this year than they did last year.

 

[Gurglesons]

The reason the Canes "lost" the Guentzel deal is that they traded for him to go on a cup run, but they lost in the 2nd round. Even if you want to be disingenuous and argue that Koivunen and Ponomarev are nothing pieces (which Canes fans will tell you is wrong), the point is that they could have targeted bigger needs and/or longer term solutions than trading a lot for Guentzel. This is fundamentally the risk with any rentals, in that you losing means trading for the rental was pointless, but it's especially true with higher priced rentals.

Maybe you can argue that they didn't pay that much in terms of value for Guentzel, but the fact is that they paid that value to lose in the 2nd round and basically threw it away for nothing. The Canes would have made the 2nd round with or without Guentzel and trading what they traded for him didn't move the needle for them whatsoever. They basically gave up Bunting, 3 prospects (one of which is highly regarded by scouts) and a 2nd to not change how their season ended up going.

It's the same way that Shero would lose all of those deadline deals when he'd trade a 2nd and Caputi for Ponikarovsky or when JR lost deadline deals when he'd pay a 2nd for Winnik. Maybe they didn't pay anything that mattered, but they basically threw away assets that didn't tangibly move the needle for their team. With the Guentzel trade, they just gave up a lot for that. The purpose of that trade was to win a cup, not get a nice 15 game run of regular season production.

They traded nothing of consequence for Jake Guentzel.

They have every young prospect that is going to help them be a future good team and traded nobody off their roster that mattered.

Such a bizarre take. Guentzel trade was an absolute home run for them.

 

[Empoleon8771]

They traded nothing of consequence for Jake Guentzel.

They have every young prospect that is going to help them be a future good team and traded nobody off their roster that mattered.

Such a bizarre take. Guentzel trade was an absolute home run for them.

What was the purpose of that trade, was it to win a cup? If it was, then no, it wasn't a "home run" for them.

They traded Bunting, 3 prospects and a 2nd for Guentzel and lost earlier in the playoffs this year than they did last year. How can you even remotely justify that being a "home run" for them? The purpose of trading for him was to win a cup, which they completely failed. Trading for Guenztel fundamentally did not change how their season went, they got a cupcake round 1 matchup and then lost in round 2. Who cares if he had a nice 15 game run of regular season production? That wasn't the purpose of the trade.

 

[Ryder71]

Jake Guentzel for Bunts and a second round pick, confirmed.

Kyle Doobler, folks.

You're forgetting the prospects, don't be like that.

They traded nothing of consequence for Jake Guentzel.

They have every young prospect that is going to help them be a future good team and traded nobody off their roster that mattered.

Such a bizarre take. Guentzel trade was an absolute home run for them.

Be A Canes fan then, see how that works for you. You're just trolling.

 

[Empoleon8771]

At absolute best, you can say that the Canes ended up trading nothing for Guentzel, but it was still a failure because he was brought in to win a cup and they lost in round 2. Trying to argue that the deal was a "home run" for them because he put up some nice points in meaningless regular season games is absolutely laughable. Teams who want to win a cup don't trade for rentals so they put up a lot of points late in the regular season.

This is like arguing that the Penguins hit a "home run" with the Kahun for Sheary and ERod trade because Sheary was good for the Penguins for a short window, ERod stuck around and was good and Kahun was a nothing piece, but they still ended up never winning a series after that trade.

 

[Ryder71]

At absolute best, you can say that the Canes ended up trading nothing for Guentzel, but it was still a failure because he was brought in to win a cup and they lost in round 2. Trying to argue that the deal was a "home run" for them because he put up some nice points in meaningless regular season games is absolutely laughable. Teams who want to win a cup don't trade for rentals so they put up a lot of points late in the regular season.

You can't even say that, Bunting has already shown to be a nice piece, and If Koivunen does anything in the next couple of years (most likely 25/26) it's a great deal for the pens in addition to PONO, 44thOA and Cruz. How anyone can suggest anything but the Pens doing well this deal makes no sense.

 

[Gurglesons]

The petty Kotkaniemi stuff. Now they are locked into that terrible contract. They should have address d depth cause Deangelo sucks too. But instead they retained money to get a pick when they should have used that money to make the team better.

I didn’t mean that deal alone just in general. Also continued to run with a crap goalie.

Pesce was injured. DeAngelo wouldn't have played.

Teams lose sometimes. Carolina's issues isn't really the player management. It's the fact they simply do not have the elite talent the other contenders have in the East.

Their best player is a Zibby comparable. Rangers had Fox, Panarin, and Shesterkin on top of that.

Jake Guentzel is their best forward.

 

[Darren McCord]

Pesce was injured. DeAngelo wouldn't have played.

Teams lose sometimes. Carolina's issues isn't really the player management. It's the fact they simply do not have the elite talent the other contenders have in the East.

Their best player is a Zibby comparable. Rangers had Fox, Panarin, and Shesterkin on top of that.

Jake Guentzel is their best forward.

Correct which is why I said they should have addressed depth. Players get hurt they should have had better defensive depth. Their bottom pairing was awful.

Jake is not their best forward. Jarvis and Aho were better.

They have a full draft of picks this year. They once again didn’t go all in and are out in round 2.