Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

God help us. These yearly five months of nothingness are f***ing miserable around here and this as good as the team's gonna be for the next 10 years--needing a 10 game heater to even be within sniffing range of a WC spot.

No worries... if it's gonna be like THIS every day I'll just leave.

 

[Gurglesons]

No worries... if it's gonna be like THIS every day I'll just leave.

Good Riddance (Time of Your Life)

 

[Empoleon8771]

Trocheck is probably better than Malkin at this point, but I still absolutely would not swap the two. Malkin should be the Penguins 2C until he retires, period.

I don't know why you are acting like the 10-11 Penguins are comparable to this team.

You had a 23 year old Kris Letang and Jordan Staal. 25 year old Goligoski. And a bunch of late 20s guys in Orpik, Michalek, and Paul Martin.

We literally have no players that are anywhere near the caliber of 25 year old Goligoski.

I don't even know where to begin with this because it's absolutely wild revisionist history.

I keep typing up and deleting things like "Goligoski was traded for Neal, who proceeded to do nothing", "Martin and Michalek sucked for the Penguins in their first 2 years here" and "Fleury in the 2010s was just a more durable and likeable Jarry", because there is so much crazily wrong with what you're claiming about that team. I don't even know where to start.

Anyway, the point is that losing a 65 point 2C for a full season isn't going to take this team to a bottom-5 team. Losing Crosby might, losing Malkin absolutely wouldn't.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

No worries... if it's gonna be like THIS every day I'll just leave.

This is more entertaining than Sullivan-led hockey at least. Laughing at guys talking condescendingly about message board posters while... On a message board.

 

[BusinessGoose]

God help us. These yearly five months of nothingness are f***ing miserable around here and this as good as the team's gonna be for the next 10 years--needing a 10 game heater to even be within sniffing range of a WC spot.

No worries... if it's gonna be like THIS every day I'll just leave.

I'm honestly surprised there's been as much discourse as there has

It was a f***ing GHOST TOWN here from the TDL till the last week of the year

There's nothing to talk about.

We suck.
We're old.
Sullivan is a conman.
FSG are weak.
There's no trades.
There's no FAs.
f*** the playoff teams.

Go outside and enjoy summer.

We're just another irrelevant team in the bottom middle of the standings.

 

[Pancakes]

God help us. These yearly five months of nothingness are f***ing miserable around here and this as good as the team's gonna be for the next 10 years--needing a 10 game heater to even be within sniffing range of a WC spot.

Call me a foolish optimist but I still hold out hope we can be decent next year.

But the pessimism will return ten fold if Dubas has a bad off season

 

[MrBrightside]

Call me a foolish optimist but I still hold out hope we can be decent next year.

But the pessimism will return ten fold if Dubas has a bad off season

Of course they can be decent next year. Hell, they were a tweak or two away from being decent THIS year and hopefully Dubas will have a better offseason doing it with more than a week or two on the job.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Call me a foolish optimist but I still hold out hope we can be decent next year.

But the pessimism will return ten fold if Dubas has a bad off season

Okay. You're a foolish optimist.

I'm honestly surprised there's been as much discourse as there has

It was a f***ing GHOST TOWN here from the TDL till the last week of the year

There's nothing to talk about.

We suck.
We're old.
Sullivan is a conman.
FSG are weak.
There's no trades.
There's no FAs.
f*** the playoff teams.

Go outside and enjoy summer.

We're just another irrelevant team in the bottom middle of the standings.

I wish it felt like summer, I'd be pleasantly stoned on my hammock reading or listening to music or something. It's been like 50 degrees and pouring rain. Just as miserable as this message board.

 

[Pancakes]

Of course they can be decent next year. Hell, they were a tweak or two away from being decent THIS year and hopefully Dubas will have a better offseason doing it with more than a week or two on the job.

Big problem for me is I dunno how Sid and Geno are gonna look another year older. Geno is already declining. Sid might be soon behind him.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Call me a foolish optimist but I still hold out hope we can be decent next year.

But the pessimism will return ten fold if Dubas has a bad off season

I called them making the playoffs comfortably this season and genuinely thought that they had largely "Sullivan-proofed" the roster. So I won't be making that same mistake again. They are absolutely in "show me" territory, now.

I'm honestly surprised there's been as much discourse as there has

It was a f***ing GHOST TOWN here from the TDL till the last week of the year

There's nothing to talk about.

We suck.
We're old.
Sullivan is a conman.
FSG are weak.
There's no trades.
There's no FAs.
f*** the playoff teams.

Go outside and enjoy summer.

We're just another irrelevant team in the bottom middle of the standings.

Trust me I would be but there's a cold snap through here. I was just getting ready to start putting in the garden.

 

[MrBrightside]

Big problem for me is I dunno how Sid and Geno are gonna look another year older. Geno is already declining. Sid might be soon behind him.

It's all about health. There's no reason to think either will decline significantly from this year to next unless there are significant injuries - which, admittedly, is a very real possibility.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Looking back at that 2010-2011 team, it's downright inconceivable how that team managed to go 20-11-4 in 35 games without both Crosby and Malkin. Their leading scorer at 5v5 was Staal with 14 points in 34 games. That sucks ass

That team was 11th in points% in those 35 games but were 21st in GF%, while finishing with a -7 goal differential over those 35 games. It's actually kinda inconceivable that team was that far over .500 with that bad of a goal differential.

 

[Gurglesons]

Trocheck is probably better than Malkin at this point, but I still absolutely would not swap the two. Malkin should be the Penguins 2C until he retires, period.

I don't even know where to begin with this because it's absolutely wild revisionist history.

I keep typing up and deleting things like "Goligoski was traded for Neal, who proceeded to do nothing", "Martin and Michalek sucked for the Penguins in their first 2 years here" and "Fleury in the 2010s was just a more durable and likeable Jarry", because there is so much crazily wrong with what you're claiming about that team. I don't even know where to start.

Anyway, the point is that losing a 65 point 2C for a full season isn't going to take this team to a bottom-5 team. Losing Crosby might, losing Malkin absolutely wouldn't.

I think you have way a very weird interpertation of what this team is now versus what was in 2010-11.

Goligoski played 60 games with the Penguins. Kris Letang finished 6th in Norris Trophy votes.

Staal was a legit top six center. The amount of young talent on that team versus what we have now is just uncomparable.

Looking back at that 2010-2011 team, it's downright inconceivable how that team managed to go 20-11-4 in 35 games without both Crosby and Malkin. Their leading scorer at 5v5 was Staal with 14 points in 34 games. That sucks ass

That team was 11th in points% in those 35 games but were 21st in GF%, while finishing with a -7 goal differential over those 35 games. It's actually kinda inconceivable that team was that far over .500 with that bad of a goal differential.

So they were basically what this team is now with Sid and Geno healthy.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Realistically, I think we'll be right back here next spring; bitching about the team refusing to commit one way or another, the team barely making/missing the playoffs, and wondering what it's gonna take to get Sullivan replaced.

But god help this team if age suddenly catches up to Sid or his streak of staying healthy comes to an end.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think you have way a very weird interpertation of what this team is now versus what was in 2010-11.

Goligoski played 60 games with the Penguins. Kris Letang finished 6th in Norris Trophy votes.

Staal was a legit top six center. The amount of young talent on that team versus what we have now is just uncomparable.



So they were basically what this team is now with Sid and Geno healthy.

I was talking about only the last 35 games of that season, where the Penguins didn't have both Crosby and Malkin and went 20-11-4. The numbers under the hood were hideous though, and I'm inclined to believe that team would have been closer to what their goal differential suggested (aka bottom-10 team) if that 2011 season were to be re-run in a simulation again.

Over those 35 games, that team had a 103 point pace while also pacing for a -16 goal differential over a full season. I'd be willing to bet that has never been done in a full NHL season before.

 

[Gurglesons]

I was talking about only the last 35 games of that season, where the Penguins didn't have both Crosby and Malkin and went 20-11-4. The numbers under the hood were hideous though, and I'm inclined to believe that team would have been closer to what their goal differential suggested (aka bottom-10 team) if that 2011 season were to be re-run in a simulation again.

Over those 35 games, that team had a 103 point pace while also pacing for a -16 goal differential over a full season. I'd be willing to bet that has never been done in a full NHL season before.

Bylsma coached them to play to OT. Something our coach can't.

 

[Pancakes]

Bylsma coached them to play to OT. Something our coach can't.

Getting to OT wasn't necessarily the problem this year so much as actually ever winning once they got there lol

 

[MrBrightside]

I was talking about only the last 35 games of that season, where the Penguins didn't have both Crosby and Malkin and went 20-11-4. The numbers under the hood were hideous though, and I'm inclined to believe that team would have been closer to what their goal differential suggested (aka bottom-10 team) if that 2011 season were to be re-run in a simulation again.

Over those 35 games, that team had a 103 point pace while also pacing for a -16 goal differential over a full season. I'd be willing to bet that has never been done in a full NHL season before.

Well, the Capitals had 90 points with a -37 goal differential just this year.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Call me a foolish optimist but I still hold out hope we can be decent next year.

But the pessimism will return ten fold if Dubas has a bad off season

With a different coaching staff and some minor roster tweaks, yes.

With the same coaching staff and swapping out Smith for another mid tier 40-50 point winger to replace him, doubt it. I think we see the exact same thing again. A lot of bad with a handful of good spurts where they "almost" make it.

 

[Pancakes]

With a different coaching staff and some minor roster tweaks, yes.

With the same coaching staff and swapping out Smith for another mid tier 40-50 point winger to replace him, doubt it. I think we see the exact same thing again. A lot of bad with a handful of good spurts where they "almost" make it.

Think the problem next year is the Devils probably won't be this bad again. Philly and the Isles will hang around.

The Caps will probably be bad but I mean they seem well coached enough to accumulate points so they might hang around too.

Idk one of these years we're gonna find ourselves on the bottom of the metro just by sheer numbers. Someone has to be worst, right?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Think the problem next year is the Devils probably won't be this bad again. Philly and the Isles will hang around.

The Caps will probably be bad but I mean they seem well coached enough to accumulate points so they might hang around too.

Idk one of these years we're gonna find ourselves on the bottom of the metro just by sheer numbers. Someone has to be worst, right?

I think Philly is showing signs of an impending Torts implosion. They have some nice young pieces, but the Couturier thing is an issue. And, perhaps most importantly, they have major goaltending issues with Carter Hart facing his trial. Their pipeline is full of question marks.

I also don't think Columbus is anywhere close to figuring things out. They have issues stemming from the very top.

I think it's possible that the Pens could have the core all retire tomorrow, Dubas goes scorched earth and trades everyone over 25, and the Pens would still be better than the Jackets.

 

[MrBrightside]

I think Philly is showing signs of an impending Torts implosion. They have some nice young pieces, but the Couturier thing is an issue. And, perhaps most importantly, they have major goaltending issues with Carter Hart facing his trial. Their pipeline is full of question marks.

I also don't think Columbus is anywhere close to figuring things out. They have issues stemming from the very top.

I think it's possible that the Pens could have the core all retire tomorrow, Dubas goes scorched earth and trades everyone over 25, and the Pens would still be better than the Jackets.

It's hard to picture Boston, Florida, Toronto, Carolina, or the Rangers not making the playoffs next season. Tampa Bay is in some decline and it remains to be seen where things end up for them this offseason, but they'd still be hard to count out. You thus have 2 spots for everyone else, and fortunately one needs to be a Metro team. I think the Pens with the right moves are likely to be better than the Flyers, Isles, and Caps, but NJ is the wild card as I'd be very surprised if they don't rebound next season.

 

[BrookswasHere44]

No to Guentzel. Yes to Reinhart. Just as far as spending money. I realize not an apples to apples comparison

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Think the problem next year is the Devils probably won't be this bad again. Philly and the Isles will hang around.

Devs will improve just by having Hamilton back for most of the year. That + the assumption they receive closer to league-average goaltending, you'd assume they'd improve. I don't think Greene is the answer behind the bench tho.

Looks like the Torts bump and dip is happening even earlier in Philly, so, not super worried about them.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think Philly is showing signs of an impending Torts implosion. They have some nice young pieces, but the Couturier thing is an issue. And, perhaps most importantly, they have major goaltending issues with Carter Hart facing his trial. Their pipeline is full of question marks.

I also don't think Columbus is anywhere close to figuring things out. They have issues stemming from the very top.

I think it's possible that the Pens could have the core all retire tomorrow, Dubas goes scorched earth and trades everyone over 25, and the Pens would still be better than the Jackets.

Ersson was their starter prior to Carter Hart facing his trial.

Columbus could easily rocket to a playoff team given their young talent. Fantilli and that young Russian line are great. Vincent was arguably the worst coach in the league last year.