Salary Cap: Pens 2024 Summer Thread: "Thus, knocking us out of these superior numbers when we emerge! Mr. President, we must not allow a non-playoff bound gap!"
- Thread starter Zirakzigil
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HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
I'm in the the "Kyle Dubas showed up at my house party uninvited and only talked about bitcoin , scaring all the women off" club myself.
Dipsy Doodle
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What kind of a standard is that?
Guentzel is elite at playoff goal scoring since entering the league. I can bring out the list if the totals aren't self-evident. He's also shown he can put up a point-per-game in the regular season playing with multiple centers in Pittsburgh and in Carolina.
He's rare. We almost certainly won't be replacing a talent like him at a time when our aging centers need more help than ever.
HandshakeLine
A real jerk thing
Which is why I wish we got more out of the trade instead of a crapshoot Finn and some potential bottom 6 bodies, tbh.
BusinessGoose
Registered User
When was the last time he played in the playoffs? We aren't even making it there, so being "elite" in the post season seems a bit irrelevant.
Because this is the league today, regular season insanity:
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The Old Master
come and take it.
i like yager!
MayorofWBS
Registered User
Guentzel would still be a terrible, terrible contract for this team. He will get plenty of term and we are just aren't in the right timeframe on the lifecycle of this team for it to make sense. Guentzel is still a good player, no one is fighting that, and no he isn't going to be simply replacement at full productivity. It's not the right time to be signing 30+ players to long-term contract. He's going to get 6 years+ out of someone. This team is closer and closer to total collapse. We will be needing to weaponize our cap space soon for a complete rebuild and we already have plenty of own sloppy contracts already.
Dipsy Doodle
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In your last post, you asked if Guentzel's playoff numbers compared well with McDavid's because he wad good or McDavid wasn't. Why would you even ask if you didn't want the answer? The answer is that it's because Guentzel is fantastic in the playoffs.
Elite in the post-season matters if we care at all about winning again during Crosby's last years.
Jake is criminally underrated by Pens fans. I would love to have him back. It would be one thing if we were committed to rebuilding but that’s obviously not what we’re doing.
I still don’t see the vision behind what we’re going to do with the cap space saved by not resigning him.
I still don’t see the vision behind what we’re going to do with the cap space saved by not resigning him.
The point is a retool/pivot can't include a high-cost player who is going to decline as part of the eventual end of this roster. Bunting is a nice add for a declining Malkin as he goes to the areas of high compete levels and helps a slower center to shorten his ice space. DOC give the first line a go to the net, work the boards and play much better defense. His hands and shot are good enough to contribute. He does need to add size and strength this off season. If Smith is not moved, then maybe he can respond to being in his last year and show he can be that LW on a third line with Eller and Acciari. Dubas has to get a bigger physical LW and end the sullivan smurf want. Poulin. maybe Jesse, Gruden and a FA signing can elevate the 4th line to a check down physical presence that wins games.
Dipsy Doodle
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In 8 years, Guentzel will be the age Crosby is now. What makes you think he's going to be anything other than worth his contract for the majority of his deal?
Sid will likely play here into his early 40s. Presumably, he'll need someone good to play with. DOC is a solid tweener, but he's not who I'd want riding shotgun with Crosby in his twilight years.
Gurglesons
Registered User
I think it is fair to say Jake was great here and it was time to move on from Jake.
As we saw, Bryan Rust put up comparable numbers with Jake gone.
As we saw, Bryan Rust put up comparable numbers with Jake gone.
I’m not in favor of bringing in anyone age 30 or over…we have enough…I hope one or two of our young forward prospects will be ready and a gamer.. love it if Dubas could pry someone like Pinto or Necas away from their clubs…
It does not sound like a full-scale rebuild is on the horizon for Penguins
Kyle Dubas addressed the media on Friday.
www.pensburgh.com
HockeyBuzz.com - Ryan Wilson - My thoughts on Penguins thoughts
www.hockeybuzz.com
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Jacob
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Capfriendly lists Puustinen as a Group 6 UFA.. That’d suck to lose him, hopefully we can resign him before July. Assuming it’s cheap. Like about what O’Connor got on his current deal.
Yeah…he wasn’t mentioned by Dubas at all but they should give him a contract… he can be a decent serviceable player
I like how Dubas wants to emulate the Rangers and Kings but both of those teams got some high draft picks as part of their reload. And in the Ranger's case, the Rangers didn't exactly hit home runs with those picks either (though Laf finally seems decent).
The Rangers fell ass backwards into Panarin because Russians love playing in New York and had a possibly hall of fame defenseman in Adam Fox basically force his way onto their team rather than sign with Calgary. Real impressive rebuild that was. I mean shit if Dubas has like Sam Reinhart and Cale Makar suddenly decide that they really want to be Penguins then I'm sure his rebuild will look pretty damned good too.
As for the Kings, they had less BS involved with theirs but they still got some high picks to help rebuild.
We are getting no such picks unless we somehow win the lottery this year and we've got a 1.5% chance to do so and all it would do is make us pick 4th. Woopdie do.
So I don't see how we're emulating either of those team's rebuilds unless we get absurd free agent luck as well as tank our way into a few years in a row of top 5 picks. And Dubas isn't gonna let the roster bad enough to do the latter. It would take a Sid injury to make that happen.
The Rangers fell ass backwards into Panarin because Russians love playing in New York and had a possibly hall of fame defenseman in Adam Fox basically force his way onto their team rather than sign with Calgary. Real impressive rebuild that was. I mean shit if Dubas has like Sam Reinhart and Cale Makar suddenly decide that they really want to be Penguins then I'm sure his rebuild will look pretty damned good too.
As for the Kings, they had less BS involved with theirs but they still got some high picks to help rebuild.
We are getting no such picks unless we somehow win the lottery this year and we've got a 1.5% chance to do so and all it would do is make us pick 4th. Woopdie do.
So I don't see how we're emulating either of those team's rebuilds unless we get absurd free agent luck as well as tank our way into a few years in a row of top 5 picks. And Dubas isn't gonna let the roster bad enough to do the latter. It would take a Sid injury to make that happen.
We need to tank our way into the top five for a couple years unless we can offer sheet a few great young players lol….otherwise my suggested team motto, “striving for mediocrity “ should stand
Pens have to get better. The only way to do that is to get younger bigger, faster and improve the structure of team defense, PP and of course net presence. The pivot is more about that than find or resigning a small LW who will require a cap hit of that magnitude. Maybe for a year or so it works, but Dubas knows at best the Pens are treading water. They have to get better. Malkin is declining and Letang has some injury that require surgery. Dubas knows tanking in this market is simply not what he or FSG wants. He needs to change the dynamic here.
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orby
Registered User
Empoleon8771
Registered User
Bringing back Guentzel makes no sense for this team.
1. The later part of the season showed that Crosby does not need a Guentzel caliber winger to make a strong top line. Spending $9 million on Guentzel to play with Crosby when Crosby can absolutely make a great top line with a $3 million LW makes the extra money spent there a misallocation of money.
2. Similar to point 1, but spending a ton of money on Guentzel means it's more challenging to fix the actual issues with this team. This team needs to revamp their bottom-6, improve a bit on defense and fix the powerplay, how does adding Guentzel do any of that?
3. If Guentzel is brought back, Sullivan is going to default back to using him how he was used in the past. Both from the aspects of "Crosby doesn't need Guentzel" and "Guentzel doesn't help the top PP", there just isn't a logical fit.
It's time to move on from Guentzel and it would be a moronic step backwards to bring him back .
1. The later part of the season showed that Crosby does not need a Guentzel caliber winger to make a strong top line. Spending $9 million on Guentzel to play with Crosby when Crosby can absolutely make a great top line with a $3 million LW makes the extra money spent there a misallocation of money.
2. Similar to point 1, but spending a ton of money on Guentzel means it's more challenging to fix the actual issues with this team. This team needs to revamp their bottom-6, improve a bit on defense and fix the powerplay, how does adding Guentzel do any of that?
3. If Guentzel is brought back, Sullivan is going to default back to using him how he was used in the past. Both from the aspects of "Crosby doesn't need Guentzel" and "Guentzel doesn't help the top PP", there just isn't a logical fit.
It's time to move on from Guentzel and it would be a moronic step backwards to bring him back .
They got a winger for Malkin and a net front guy for the PP signed for two more seasons at $4.5M.
A couple things that are on the have to do list. Jake is not one of them. Extend Sid. determine the value of Smith at the draft table. and significant investment in the off season S&C program. DOC, Jack ST Ivany among those who need to add size and strength.
Empoleon8771
Registered User
What issue would bringing Guentzel back solve for the issues that the team had last year? Doesn't help bottom-6 scoring. Doesn't help the PP. Doesn't help the defense. So what exactly does it solve?
Bringing Guentzel back helps the top line score more, but that's not an issue without Guentzel on the team. The top line's GF/60 at 5v5 decreased only by 7% compared to with Guentzel (3.83) and without Guentzel (3.56) last year. The top line without Guentzel is far too productive to even begin justifying spending $9 million on Guentzel, the top line simply does not need him. Even if you want to look at a multi-year sample size, the results say the same thing: Crosby's line produces a lot regardless of whether Guentzel is on his line or not.
If Guentzel was coming back to play with Malkin? I can definitely see a case to be made there. But he's not going to be doing that, so why are they paying that much money to bring him back?
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