Penguins Size and Weight

[darkbrew*]

not only are the pens small, but they are old. anyone know where they rank in regards to average age?

Yeah that really killed the Wings when they crushed everyone in 2008/2009 when they were one of the oldest teams in the league with a core much older than ours.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

not only are the pens small, but they are old. anyone know where they rank in regards to average age?

According to stats.nhlnumbers.com the penguins rank as the Third oldest team at 28.106 years. Behind only Philadelphia (28.627 years) and (you guessed it) New Jersey at a staggering 30.296.

 

[Penguinator]

not only are the pens small, but they are old. anyone know where they rank in regards to average age?

Poor poor little Penguins... Sooooo small and sooooo old like you, yes?

 

[darkbrew*]

According to stats.nhlnumbers.com the penguins rank as the Third oldest team at 28.106 years. Behind only Philadelphia (28.627 years) and (you guessed it) New Jersey at a staggering 30.296.

Pretty sure the wings were 30+ in 2008 and 2009 when they were the best team in the league. Experience is a factor in the playoffs. Plus alot of our age is tied up in players that really shouldn't play as much as they do Adams, Scuderi, Kunitz basically the worst 3.

 

[Black Label]

Pretty sure the wings were 30+ in 2008 and 2009 when they were the best team in the league. Experience is a factor in the playoffs. Plus alot of our age is tied up in players that really shouldn't play as much as they do Adams, Scuderi, Kunitz basically the worst 3.

I think Chelios throws that stat off though since he was about 100 years old in 2008.

The issue is that we have bad older players. If we had Lidström instead of Adams and Rafalski instead of Scuderi I don't think age would matter as much.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Despres has enough weight to go around.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Pittsburgh lost size from '08 to '09 when the replaced Malone with Kunitz and Ruutu with Cooke, it didn't matter though because those guys still hit a lot (if not more) and had much better speed to get in on the forecheck. The '08 team was big (Laraque, Roberts, Malone, Ruutu all being at least 6'2") but they were slow, too slow to even get good hits on Detroit because they moved the puck out long before those guys could get there.

I still want physicality but I'd sacrifice size if it meant adding more speed. Our two best wingers aren't fast, that worries me. Neither is Bennet and Kunitz has slowed considerably. I won't even mention Adams and Sill... To me, speed is a bigger concern than size.

 

[ColePens]

It's all about how the team plays. You can be small and physical. You can be big and not physical. It's all about how your team is structured and if it is playing to strengths.

One of the most difficult lines for the opposition to play against was the Buzz line at one point. They just flew around, finished hits, and made it tough to play. All tiny guys. The system matched their speed/tenacity.

To be honest - tenacity >>>>> size. Let's just re-sign Pyatt and Klink and make this team big and LESS physical.

 

[wgknestrick]

What this thread tells me:

NFL football players would be better at hockey than NHL players because they are just larger in height and weight.

What I learned from this thread:

Nothing.

Size means very little if you don't have talent behind it. Sure there are certain positions (D and G) that benefit from being larger if all others are equal. The current refereeing style also benefits larger players because they can power through some penalties that obviously aren't being called. The current NHL does not play into our team's strengths. If the NHL starts calling penalties again, it will.

The problem with all this is that you are making a very risky bet that current NHL reffing will stay the same for many years, and obviously there is a cross-over point where a more talented (yet smaller) player is still more effective than a larger player of slightly less talent.

I still feel that size is vastly overvalued by fans and many organizations. Those small skilled players can gain size over time while the large players can't always gain skill.

 

[joeyjake5]

When Geno was drafted he was listed at 6' 3" 195. And he is still listed at those #s.

Now, I guaranty you, he is 6"4'' and at least 205. Geno still looks like a string bean but he is a lean mean fighting machine. He carries no FAT.

 

[Boocock]

When Geno was drafted he was listed at 6' 3" 195. And he is still listed at those #s.

Now, I guaranty you, he is 6"4'' and at least 205. Geno still looks like a string bean but he is a lean mean fighting machine. He carries no FAT.

CBS Sports lists him at 6'3", 212 lbs.

 

[joeyjake5]

CBS Sports lists him at 6'3", 212 lbs.

CBS sports knows nothing about hockey. Both TSN and NHL.com both list Geno at 6'3'' 195 on their Pens roster pages.

CBS sports is strictly football.

 

[Til the End of Time]

its not just that the pens are small and old. its that they are small and play small, old, soft, slow, not very skilled, dont have much heart, dont very hardworking, not good defensively.

honest question, and i am not being facetious but is there any positive adjective/descriptor that applies to this team?

 

[Shady Machine]

Yeah that really killed the Wings when they crushed everyone in 2008/2009 when they were one of the oldest teams in the league with a core much older than ours.

Huh? Do we have a really old but still awesome Lidstrom and Rafalski somewhere in the locker room?

Our old players suck. We do need to get younger, bigger, and faster.

 

[Shady Machine]

its not just that the pens are small and old. its that they are small and play small, old, soft, slow, not very skilled, dont have much heart, dont very hardworking, not good defensively.

honest question, and i am not being facetious but is there any positive adjective/descriptor that applies to this team?

superstars?

 

[Russian Factor]

Tampa might have the biggest defense in the National Hockey league next to Florida. They have the largest goaltender and had the second-largest goaltender until last year. In addition, they signed the tallest, heaviest free agent on the market in this past offseason.

Notion that the bolts don't chase size is not correct.

Listing a goalie as an example of chasing size is disingenuous. Obviously that's not what we're talking about here in this discussion. As for their defense, Garrison has 34 hits in 50 some games, Sustr has 31, Hedman has 38, Stralman is known as a puck possession/puck mover, etc. For reference Letang (who isn't perceived as a tough guy) has over 100. So I guess if you really want to you can point to the big D men as Tampa going after size but these guys aren't exactly Doug Murrays out there. They all really are good at moving the puck, puck possession and their size isn't really used for physicality except as an afterthought.

Besides I was really talking about their forwards Johnson, Palat, Kucherov, Namestikinov, Drouin, etc that are all slight of build with tons of skill. It speaks to a concerted effort to draft based on ability and size comes in only as a secondary consideration. These guys are killing it now.

Size does matter. It just matters way less than most people seem to think.

 

[drpepper]

Listing a goalie as an example of chasing size is disingenuous. Obviously that's not what we're talking about here in this discussion. As for their defense, Garrison has 34 hits in 50 some games, Sustr has 31, Hedman has 38, Stralman is known as a puck possession/puck mover, etc. For reference Letang (who isn't perceived as a tough guy) has over 100. So I guess if you really want to you can point to the big D men as Tampa going after size but these guys aren't exactly Doug Murrays out there. They all really are good at moving the puck, puck possession and their size isn't really used for physicality except as an afterthought.

Besides I was really talking about their forwards Johnson, Palat, Kucherov, Namestikinov, Drouin, etc that are all slight of build with tons of skill. It speaks to a concerted effort to draft based on ability and size comes in only as a secondary consideration. These guys are killing it now.

Size does matter. It just matters way less than most people seem to think.

It also matters how a player is built and how they use (or don't use) their size.

Players like Crosby, MSL are smaller but solidly built and difficult to knock off the puck. Their weight distribution in their lower body is partially why they are so successful. Jagr has a similar weight distribution (although he overall is bigger) and has great success.

Players like Karlsson (particularly pre-injury) and Letang aren't built to truck players like Chara or Subban might, but they are built to maximize their skating speed, manuverability, and agility.

Players like Kassian (or Dumoulin) struggle somewhat because they aren't able to use their size effectively.

Bennett was over 200lbs last off-season (2013), and it negatively impacted his skating ability to the point that he lost the weight to skate better.

There are usually trade-offs, and function matters.

 

[Shady Machine]

Listing a goalie as an example of chasing size is disingenuous. Obviously that's not what we're talking about here in this discussion. As for their defense, Garrison has 34 hits in 50 some games, Sustr has 31, Hedman has 38, Stralman is known as a puck possession/puck mover, etc. For reference Letang (who isn't perceived as a tough guy) has over 100. So I guess if you really want to you can point to the big D men as Tampa going after size but these guys aren't exactly Doug Murrays out there. They all really are good at moving the puck, puck possession and their size isn't really used for physicality except as an afterthought.

Besides I was really talking about their forwards Johnson, Palat, Kucherov, Namestikinov, Drouin, etc that are all slight of build with tons of skill. It speaks to a concerted effort to draft based on ability and size comes in only as a secondary consideration. These guys are killing it now.

Size does matter. It just matters way less than most people seem to think.

You aren't understanding the usefulness of size. It's not just about hit stats, it's about strength and durability. If you are trying to grind out a defense in a 7 game series, it's a lot harder to do if they are mammoths. How about trying to win battles in the corner or in front? The point is, Tampa isn't intentionally trying to not be big.

Also, you seem to be forgetting that they went out and signed Brian Boyle up front, who is huge.

 

[Boocock]

CBS sports knows nothing about hockey. Both TSN and NHL.com both list Geno at 6'3'' 195 on their Pens roster pages.

CBS sports is strictly football.

The fact that NHL.com lists Geno at 6'3" 195 lbs. is why I theorize that their numbers are flat out wrong and haven't been updated in years. Most websites probably just copy the official Pittsburgh Penguins websites, assuming those numbers will be correct. However, I have zero faith that the Penguins organization actually updates those figures on the website on a year-to-year basis.

 

[Shady Machine]

The fact that NHL.com lists Geno at 6'3" 195 lbs. is why I theorize that their numbers are flat out wrong and haven't been updated in years. Most websites probably just copy the official Pittsburgh Penguins websites, assuming those numbers will be correct. However, I have zero faith that the Penguins organization actually updates those figures on the website on a year-to-year basis.

But CBS does?

I don't really have a dog in this fight but I find that to be amusing.

 

[Boocock]

But CBS does?

I don't really have a dog in this fight but I find that to be amusing.

I know it may sound silly. But, when most sources have the same height and weight figures, and another has drastically different numbers for those same players (a seventeen pound difference), doesn't it beg for us to inquire where those different numbers came from?

It at least excites my curiousity. Why do CBS and ESPN's numbers change on a year-to-year basis, while the Penguins website stays the same?

 

[JRS91]

The Penguins biggest problem seems to be that they're just getting outworked or are losing battles to loose pucks. Perhaps they aren't fast enough.

If they can't possess the puck and make smart plays or passes, it's going to hurt them, adding a bigger player isn't going to help that, if anything, I think it'll make it worse.

I don't think getting bigger is going to help anything, Penguin fans want guys like Kassian, while I think he'd help the bottom-six, he's been benched for not using his size. I just think they need to add more quality players in their bottom-six.

 

[billybudd]

Listing a goalie as an example of chasing size is disingenuous. Obviously that's not what we're talking about here in this discussion. As for their defense, Garrison has 34 hits in 50 some games, Sustr has 31, Hedman has 38, Stralman is known as a puck possession/puck mover, etc. For reference Letang (who isn't perceived as a tough guy) has over 100. So I guess if you really want to you can point to the big D men as Tampa going after size but these guys aren't exactly Doug Murrays out there. They all really are good at moving the puck, puck possession and their size isn't really used for physicality except as an afterthought.

Besides I was really talking about their forwards Johnson, Palat, Kucherov, Namestikinov, Drouin, etc that are all slight of build with tons of skill. It speaks to a concerted effort to draft based on ability and size comes in only as a secondary consideration. These guys are killing it now.

Size does matter. It just matters way less than most people seem to think.

The bolded is absolutely not correct. Sustr and Hedman act like jackets on people. The only reason Boyle's even in the NHL--let alone as a big money free agent in Tampa--is his size. Boyle might have the worst balance in the sport. If he's even 6'1, he's probably kicking around the AHL or a European league.

We'll see how useful Tyler Johnson and the midget brigade are in this year's playoffs. I'm betting they are far from effective and that unless they get some team in freefall (bruins, for example), the Lightning get bounced in round 1 just like last year.

 

[Penguinator]

The Penguins biggest problem seems to be that they're just getting outworked or are losing battles to loose pucks. Perhaps they aren't fast enough.

If they can't possess the puck and make smart plays or passes, it's going to hurt them, adding a bigger player isn't going to help that, if anything, I think it'll make it worse.

I don't think getting bigger is going to help anything, Penguin fans want guys like Kassian, while I think he'd help the bottom-six, he's been benched for not using his size. I just think they need to add more quality players in their bottom-six.

I want Tlusty or Winnik, that's it.

Sup JRS? Still goofin' on the official Pens forum?

 

[JRS91]

I want Tlusty or Winnik, that's it.

Sup JRS? Still goofin' on the official Pens forum?

I wouldn't mind Tlusty, but he reminds me a lot of Jokinen.

Yes. This is the third person who's noticed me. I guess I'm more popular than I initially thought.