Post-Game Talk: Penguins 5 | Maple Leafs 2 | Paul Martin is God's Gift to Man

[KareemTrustfund]

Anybody else REALLY liking Comeau's game? Speed, grit, has a little more poise than I figured. Can't believe this guy has been seeing the waiver wire as much as has been.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

They just need a top six winger and the gift of health. I'm not sure I can say which is least likely to happen, sadly.

Health. This team has already had injuries before the season started, injury histories and the ages of some players are concerning. Their saving grace is that other teams haven't been having an easy go of it with injuries.

They really need to keep their trade pieces (Martin, really) healthy or it all goes to hell.

 

[wej20]

Anybody else REALLY liking Comeau's game? Speed, grit, has a little more poise than I figured. Can't believe this guy has been seeing the waiver wire as much as has been.

I think he's finally realised what he has to do to be an NHLer.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think BB and Malkin should play together, barring an acquisition.

Barring two acquisitions, I'd think. One acquisition should still leave Bennett with Malkin.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I think Bennett would be a fine third wheel with Geno. That is, if he can stay healthy for any significant amount of time. Especially if we slot Kunitz down with Geno full time.

Ideally, I'd be hoping for something like this come playoff time:

(Winger trade) - Crosby - Hornqvist
Kunitz - Malkin - Bennett
Spaling - Sutter - Dupuis
Comeau - Goc - Downie
Sill

That's a really solid (not perfect) top 6, and a great bottom six. I don't think we have to make two moves for wingers, even though I'd like Bennett as a 3rd liner rather than a top 6 option.

In a perfect world, we'd have this:

(Winger) - Crosby - Hornqvist
Kunitz - Malkin - (Winger)
Dupuis - Sutter - Bennett
Spaling - Goc - Comeau
Downie

I just don't know how realistic that is mid-season. (It feels so good to type out a bottom six with relatively good depth throughout, and not having to add in Adams/Glass/Pyatt/Kobasew/etc.)

 

[Cherpak]

I think Bennett would be a fine third wheel with Geno. That is, if he can stay healthy for any significant amount of time. Especially if we slot Kunitz down with Geno full time.

Ideally, I'd be hoping for something like this come playoff time:

(Winger trade) - Crosby - Hornqvist
Kunitz - Malkin - Bennett
Spaling - Sutter - Dupuis
Comeau - Goc - Downie
Sill

That's a really solid (not perfect) top 6, and a great bottom six. I don't think we have to make two moves for wingers, even though I'd like Bennett as a 3rd liner rather than a top 6 option.

In a perfect world, we'd have this:

(Winger) - Crosby - Hornqvist
Kunitz - Malkin - (Winger)
Dupuis - Sutter - Bennett
Spaling - Goc - Comeau
Downie

I just don't know how realistic that is mid-season. (It feels so good to type out a bottom six with relatively good depth throughout, and not having to add in Adams/Glass/Pyatt/Kobasew/etc.)

Downie won't be that far down.

 

[penguins2946*]

I'd rather not split up KCH and just bring in a really good winger to play with Malkin by using assets from Martin. We shouldn't be splitting up what is working. I'm expecting us to run with a F group of:

Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
Dupuis/TRADE-Malkin-TRADE/Dupuis
Downie-Sutter-Bennett
Spaling-Goc-Comeau

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think Bennett would be a fine third wheel with Geno. That is, if he can stay healthy for any significant amount of time. Especially if we slot Kunitz down with Geno full time.

Ideally, I'd be hoping for something like this come playoff time:

(Winger trade) - Crosby - Hornqvist
Kunitz - Malkin - Bennett
Spaling - Sutter - Dupuis
Comeau - Goc - Downie
Sill

That's a really solid (not perfect) top 6, and a great bottom six. I don't think we have to make two moves for wingers, even though I'd like Bennett as a 3rd liner rather than a top 6 option.

In a perfect world, we'd have this:

(Winger) - Crosby - Hornqvist
Kunitz - Malkin - (Winger)
Dupuis - Sutter - Bennett
Spaling - Goc - Comeau
Downie

I just don't know how realistic that is mid-season. (It feels so good to type out a bottom six with relatively good depth throughout, and not having to add in Adams/Glass/Pyatt/Kobasew/etc.)

I agree with all of this. I'll be happy with the first version. I'd be happier with the 2nd version, depending what has to be moved I guess.

I'd rather not split up KCH and just bring in a really good winger to play with Malkin by using assets from Martin. We shouldn't be splitting up what is working. I'm expecting us to run with a F group of:

Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
Dupuis/TRADE-Malkin-TRADE/Dupuis
Downie-Sutter-Bennett
Spaling-Goc-Comeau

If Dupuis is in the top 6, it should be Dupuis-Sid-Hornqvist. I do not want him with Malkin. Yes, KCH is working. Its been 2 games.

 

[Ugene Magic]

And Bennett takes most of that cap space when he comes off from LTIR. The reason those two are up is because we're using Bennett's LTIR-exemption possibility.

I think some are forgeting what they did to maximize the LTIR.

They used not just Bennett's, they also kept Kapanen on the squad to get closer to the cap and then sent him back to Finland. Then they shuffled the deck with cheaper contracts. .925 is a considerable bigger number than .550. The more they use the LTIR the better.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I think some are forgeting what they did to maximize the LTIR.

They used not just Bennett's, they also kept Kapanen on the squad to get closer to the cap and then sent him back to Finland. Then they shuffled the deck with cheaper contracts. .925 is a considerable bigger number than .550. The more they use the LTIR the better.

That has such a minimal effect for us long term that its really not worth talking about.

 

[KIRK]

I'd rather not split up KCH and just bring in a really good winger to play with Malkin by using assets from Martin. We shouldn't be splitting up what is working. I'm expecting us to run with a F group of:

Kunitz-Crosby-Hornqvist
Dupuis/TRADE-Malkin-TRADE/Dupuis
Downie-Sutter-Bennett
Spaling-Goc-Comeau

After watching how many times in game two Dupuis failed to hit a streaking Geno with a simple pass, I don't want Dupuis anywhere near the top six.

Martin going for that winger is a given. Here's the options for the other winger position:

1. Play Dupuis
2. Hope Bennett stays healthy and have Dupuis as plan B.
3. Move one of Bennett, Sutter, or Spaling in a second deal (the add with Spaling would have to be bigger) and have, from top to bottom and across all positions, a collection of forwards that rivals anyone in hockey.

The third choice would be very tempting for me. It would be like going 'all in' the right way and without giving a core asset or a 1st.

 

[Ugene Magic]

That has such a minimal effect for us long term that its really not worth talking about.

That has a huge amount of effect when you're talking the trade deadline when contracts are worth a quarter of their actual total.

They are .754 over the cap with LTIR. Had they had to use real time cap space of the same you are losing a potential of a 3.0 cap hit player in trade at the deadline.

It all counts or they wouldn't bother.

 

[Ogrezilla]

That has a huge amount of effect when you're talking the trade deadline when contracts are worth a quarter of their actual total.

They are .754 over the cap with LTIR. Had they had to use real time cap space of the same you are losing a potential of a 3.0 cap hit player in trade at the deadline.

It all counts or they wouldn't bother.

Except it goes away if those guys come off IR. We don't have a permanent .754m cap increase for the rest of the season.

 

[KIRK]

KCH is playing so well right now that it'd be hard to justify breaking them up. But that should accelerate the "trade for a legit scoring winger" process, because Geno playing with what remains of the in-house options is not something that should stand for long.

I concur.

 

[KIRK]

Wrong. In today's paper Johnston said, again, that Malkin is skating on the wing until he gets his legs back. Again.

Malkin at wing is cringe worthy, and as a running and post game thing, I'll comment about it.

BUT, even I said it was perfectly understandable for the first two games and defensible on the 'legs' grounds for the next two (depending upon what we actually see).

Of course, if it looks like his legs are back and he's still at wing in another week, then I'm not sure it's entirely unfair to suggest that where he's playing at ES and the PP is about accommodating other players.

I hope and still trust that won't be an issue with Johnston.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

I can't see JR trading Martin or anyone really until at least the January timeframe. Which is better than what Shero would have done, and that's wait til the deadline.

Waiting until then is a good idea on a lot of fronts, we see better what we've got on D and how the pairings are working, it's more time for a Seidenberg-esque injury blow to strike a western conference contender, and also allows us to take a run at re-signing Ehrhoff.

There's a lot of teams out west that could use PM right now, once some injuries pile up, we could have a great deal on our hands. Not many teams can part with a D man like Martin.

 

[KIRK]

I can't see JR trading Martin or anyone really until at least the January timeframe. Which is better than what Shero would have done, and that's wait til the deadline.

Waiting until then is a good idea on a lot of fronts, we see better what we've got on D and how the pairings are working, it's more time for a Seidenberg-esque injury blow to strike a western conference contender, and also allows us to take a run at re-signing Ehrhoff.

There's a lot of teams out west that could use PM right now, once some injuries pile up, we could have a great deal on our hands. Not many teams can part with a D man like Martin.

My guess: I think he's open to a Martin deal now and will be actively pursuing one once Borts returns.

EDIT: The way Maatta has looked, that Despres has looked good on balance, that Harrington is further along than anticipated, and that things save the second line have crystallized this quickly has accelerated the Martin trade timeline.

 

[Ogrezilla]

My guess: I think he's open to a Martin deal now and will be actively pursuing one once Borts returns.

EDIT: The way Maatta has looked, that Despres has looked good on balance, that Harrington is further along than anticipated, and that things save the second line have crystallized this quickly has accelerated the Martin trade timeline.

I hope so.

 

[KIRK]

I hope so.

Say "I know so". It will make me feel better.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Say "I know so". It will make me feel better.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Say "I know so". It will make me feel better.

I hope so too. I cannot think of a lower risk 20 year old rookie than Harrington to put into the lineup on D.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I hope so too. I cannot think of a lower risk 20 year old rookie than Harrington to put into the lineup on D.

and there are ALWAYS vet d-men available at the deadline if it comes to that. If anything, the sooner we trade Martin the sooner we find out if we need to look for a d rental or not. We can't tell how Harrington handles the NHL or Despres handles the top 4 if they are playing in the AHL and 3rd pairing respectively.

 

[xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

My stance is this: We need at least one more legitimate, top-6 winger, if not two. We can't move Letang until we see how he fares under Johnston's system, or until he proves his health scare is no longer an issue. Sid, and Geno are obviously off of the table. It makes no sense to move Kunitz or Hornqvist. We just signed Sutter, and nobody else in the bottom six is really worth a damn as far as legit trade assets go. That leaves our options as trade chips down to Martin, or some of our younger d-men. Martin's going to be 34, and an UFA after this season. He should be gone regardless of how this season plays out, so the time to move him is now. I think he's still got relatively good value, especially when as part of a package of picks/prospects to land a stud, long-term solution for the top six.

It's pretty simple. JR needs to be working the phones, and he needs to get creative if he wants to continue to fix the mess Shero dumped into his lap. Martin's the key.

 

[KIRK]

and there are ALWAYS vet d-men available at the deadline if it comes to that. If anything, the sooner we trade Martin the sooner we find out if we need to look for a d rental or not. We can't tell how Harrington handles the NHL or Despres handles the top 4 if they are playing in the AHL and 3rd pairing respectively.

I don't just think that's spot on. I KNOW that's spot on.

 

[KIRK]

My stance is this: We need at least one more legitimate, top-6 winger, if not two. We can't move Letang until we see how he fares under Johnston's system, or until he proves his health scare is no longer an issue. Sid, and Geno are obviously off of the table. It makes no sense to move Kunitz or Hornqvist. We just signed Sutter, and nobody else in the bottom six is really worth a damn as far as legit trade assets go. That leaves our options as trade chips down to Martin, or some of our younger d-men. Martin's going to be 34, and an UFA after this season. He should be gone regardless of how this season plays out, so the time to move him is now. I think he's still got relatively good value, especially when as part of a package of picks/prospects to land a stud, long-term solution for the top six.

It's pretty simple. JR needs to be working the phones, and he needs to get creative if he wants to continue to fix the mess Shero dumped into his lap. Martin's the key.

As I've said, Martin gets you that top six guy. Not a stud unless you're adding big, but he gets you one of what you need. From there, you've got three options as I've said . . .

1. Play Dupuis at the other wing in the top six, likely with Malkin.

2. Play Beau, pray he stays healthy, and call Dupuis your plan B.

3. Move one of Beau, Sutter, maybe Spaling with more of an add to get that second guy, make the lines from 1 to 4 and from right to left as deep and as good as anyone in hockey and go for it. Funny thing is, unless you're getting a top end top six guy, you're keeping your biggest long term assets (1st, KK, Pouliot, etc).

As I've said, seeing how the lines save the second have crystallized and how the youth looks on D, I hope JR is inclined to pick option three.

Worst case, as Ogre said, you rent a Sydor/Boucher safety net type near the deadline.