Post-Game Talk: Penguins 4 Lightning 3|OT|Geno Comes Alive

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IcedCapp

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- Despres could be a stud if ________. Correct answer gets a filet o fish on me.

- Second PP looks wicked pissah with Stemps added in and Despres and Maatta manning the points. I'm betting they score a couple of big goals in the playoffs.

If he became 35-years old, slower and less skilled?

If he was bestowed upon him the minutes and confidence that - rightfully - graced Olli Maatta?

As to your second point: I love watching that pair work on the PP, but Despres will be in wbs for the playoffs, unfortunately.
 

Sidney the Kidney

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Yes, I do. Because we've done it before, and with a shallower team.

When has this team won games when Sid and Geno aren't scoring? I'd like some statistical proof of this, since you're arguing against direct statistical evidence I've posted about the record when Sid and Geno are held off the score sheet.

The only time I can think of was when both went down with injury, and they still had Jordan Staal to slot in as a replacement. I don't think you can call that team "shallower" when this team is worse than that roster minus Sid and Geno.
 

Al Smith

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If he became 35-years old, slower and less skilled?

If he was bestowed upon him the minutes and confidence that - rightfully - graced Olli Maatta?

As to your second point: I love watching that pair work on the PP, but Despres will be in wbs for the playoffs, unfortunately.

A few weeks ago, I would have definitely agreed. Now I'm not so sure. The most surprising thing in the Detroit game wasn't the 3 own goals. It was 41 and 47 staying on the ice after the first Detroit goal instead of each getting, say, 5 more minutes of PT. Plus 47 is now seeing PP action. I'd say when Martin comes, back Bort will sit. If Letang comes back (and I'm still dubious of that), I can't imagine HCDB would sit any of his top 6, but I don't think 47 would be back in WBS.
 

Dipsy Doodle

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When has this team won games when Sid and Geno aren't scoring? I'd like some statistical proof of this, since you're arguing against direct statistical evidence I've posted about the record when Sid and Geno are held off the score sheet.

The only time I can think of was when both went down with injury, and they still had Jordan Staal to slot in as a replacement. I don't think you can call that team "shallower" when this team is worse than that roster minus Sid and Geno.

That's what I'm referring to. I think we're a better team now (healthy, without Sid and Geno) than we were then, Staal being better than Sutter notwithstanding.
 

IcedCapp

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A few weeks ago, I would have definitely agreed. Now I'm not so sure. The most surprising thing in the Detroit game wasn't the 3 own goals. It was 41 and 47 staying on the ice after the first Detroit goal instead of each getting, say, 5 more minutes of PT. Plus 47 is now seeing PP action. I'd say when Martin comes, back Bort will sit. If Letang comes back (and I'm still dubious of that), I can't imagine HCDB would sit any of his top 6, but I don't think 47 would be back in WBS.

we'll see. I thought Despres was fantastic today, and I've felt like he's been fantastic for a while.

Bylsma has been doing everything in his power to limit him to exactly 15 minutes a night. If he was developing a deeper faith in him, I imagine his TOI would start to climb.

Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I hope. I think he makes this team better.
 

cygnus47

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Tonight was actually a big step up for Despres. The last few games he's hardly seen any top players and he also hasn't seen many (or in some games ANY) defensive zone starts. Tonight he was getting shifts with Scuds against every line and they had the highest D zone start % of all our D.

Bylsma actually showed some faith in him tonight and trusted 4 and 47 to take harder shifts to free up Maatta and Niskanen to get the offensive zone starts. DB did something right guys! And I don't think he could have possibly seen Despres' game tonight and think he did anything less than a stellar job with the chance.
 

IcedCapp

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Tonight was actually a big step up for Despres. The last few games he's hardly seen any top players and he also hasn't seen many (or in some games ANY) defensive zone starts. Tonight he was getting shifts with Scuds against every line and they had the highest D zone start % of all our D.

Bylsma actually showed some faith in him tonight and trusted 4 and 47 to take harder shifts to free up Maatta and Niskanen to get the offensive zone starts. DB did something right guys!

but if you'll notice, on "on-the-fly" shifts, Bylsma would leave Niskanen out for an extended shift after Scuderi came on the ice to limit Despres' time.


Despres: 21 shifts, 15:20 ice time = 43.8 second shifts


Scuderi: 21 shifts, 17:16 ice time = 49 second shifts.

It looks worse if you only do ES shifts, but I'm too lazy to parse out the Scuderi SH shifts and the Despres PP shifts. I'd be willing to bet it's a 10-15 second difference
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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Eventually even the most stubborn have to relent in the face of undeniable, sustainable results. And Despres largely gets results, even with limited ice time and opportunity. Maybe I'm just being optimistic for the sake of a favorite player... but I think there is some begrudging trust beginning to develop, there.

I still don't understand, though, how so many people are just coming on to him, lately. Despres has largely played this way or better in the majority of his NHL games.
 

Pancakes

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I didn't see the game, but even with the buffoon we have as head coach, it will be very very hard to beat us if Geno decides to hulk out and go into conn smythe Geno mode, especially given Sid is at or near the top of his game right now.

That is what it will take for us to win a cup or even get a sniff since Bylsma is gonna get out coached and Fleury may or may not fall apart again. But you know what, if Geno goes into god mode, and so does Sid...it's tough to stop us.

Yeah people have shut those two down before, but when they're really going with that confidence, the only team that's managed to shut either of them down for a full series is Detroit, and we still won that one because you can't cover both of them.

I know I'm giving myself false hope here but to be fair the only scenario I have that has us going far in the playoffs is one that most people here would probably agree with (Sid + Geno beast out a la 09). We won't win if that doesn't happen, which is a shame because with a good coach we'd be able to win a lot of games even when Sid and/or Geno were slumping, but as it is we need them to go into god mode if we're to have any hope in the playoffs. The thing is, it is possible for them to both do it, we saw it in 09.
 

IcedCapp

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Eventually even the most stubborn have to relent in the face of undeniable, sustainable results. And Despres largely gets results, even with limited ice time and opportunity. Maybe I'm just being optimistic for the sake of a favorite player... but I think there is some begrudging trust beginning to develop, there.

I still don't understand, though, how so many people are just coming on to him, lately. Despres has largely played this way or better in the majority of his NHL games.

He's had a gallop the past few games that he hadn't had since his last call-up, imo.

I just wish some of the chances he's generating would start finding the net. I feel like I'm arguing for Tangradi with these "SHOULD HAVE BEEN POINTS!"
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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I hear ya... but the points will come. He's obviously overthinking things quite a bit, right now and his confidence had taken a big dip for a while because of it. He's obviously been told to play a certain way and largely stick to that. He's been doing that (for good or ill), so I think the trust will come and then... the points. His natural ability is just too high for that dam not to break, eventually. Maatta looked half-Pejorative Slured offensively for a while... and he was given a waaaaaaaaay longer leash.

At least that's my sunny outlook. I'm just glad they held on to him. I think he could be a very important part of the puzzle if they'd just let him.
 

Speaking Moistly

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He's had a gallop the past few games that he hadn't had since his last call-up, imo.

I just wish some of the chances he's generating would start finding the net. I feel like I'm arguing for Tangradi with these "SHOULD HAVE BEEN POINTS!"

He's looking confident and more settled again, now he just needs to be left alone. At least he's generating chances, eventually something will happen. Despres getting onto the PP is interesting, hopefully it's them trusting his defensive game.
 

BlindWillyMcHurt

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I thought he looked absolutely deadly on the powerplay, tonight. Extremely crisp and smart.

I have no idea why they haven't let him play more there in the past. At any level. It's really, really foolish. Unless he's just such a pea-brain that he can't concentrate on improving what is asked of him while playing the way he is naturally capable of playing. And I just... can't buy that.
 

IcedCapp

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For what it's worth - and probably not much - Despres now leads all Penguins defensemen in corsi.

He does play sheltered minutes - compared to other Penguins dmen - but the Pens don't actually shelter or lean on any one of their d-pairs (at least according to Corsi's QoC stats) as much as other teams do.
 

Mr Jiggyfly

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If he became 35-years old, slower and less skilled?

If he was bestowed upon him the minutes and confidence that - rightfully - graced Olli Maatta?

As to your second point: I love watching that pair work on the PP, but Despres will be in wbs for the playoffs, unfortunately.

No.... Sorry....

The correct answer was... If he ate more Filet o Fish.
 

#1GuinFan

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I think that so many of our injuries have been long term, Vokoun, Dupius and Martin, that I think the disparity in our record with Sid scoring/not scoring still seems valid.


And I can't remember, but didn't we do well record wise, when we were at the height of our injuries and half of WBS was up there? I could be wrong on that, but I thought we did well during that time.

This is what I am referring to, this team is capable of winning without Sid and/or Geno, certainly not over a long term, but when we were littered with injuries we still found a way to win. Sid certainly helped, but he only plays 22mins a night, thats 38mins he's not on the ice. So others have to step up, and they did, we played some awesome defensive hockey for 60 mins a game during that time span - given that Sid was sitting on the bench for 38 mins of those games, guess what, someone else was performing too.




I wasn't saying that we aren't better with them on the ice and scoring, but when they are your top players and put up a **** -tonne of points, ya guess what our record when they don't get points is going to be poor because in those games we don't score as much - seems pretty simple to me.
When we have 18mil allocated between the two players, I sure hope they are stepping up and scoring big points, leading by example etc. To complain that we win when they step up is a bit asinine, because the majority of the time, they are the guys putting the points on the board anyways. Craig Adams certainly ain't doing that, Glass isn't, Vitale isnt, etc. They're role players, we expect them to contribute on occasion yes, but to expect them to continuously win us games on the score sheet, ya no that isn't happening on any team.
I'd fully expect more-or-less every team in the league to have a poor record when they're star quality doesn't score, that's just the way it works. Post a comparison to Chicago all you want, but they haven't had the injury woes we have this season, they haven't lost key pieces to their team like we have. That and as we all know, they're offensive core is deeper than ours already. Toews and Kane are outstanding players, but they aren't on the same level as offensive catalysts and Sid and Geno are. With this team, chances are, when an offensive play is created, Sid and Geno are part of it.
Sidney the Kidney - 11-9-7, while impressive, is not a winning record as you stated. Win v Loss wise, that translates to 11-16.


btw - yes Sid did score the winning goal in that TML game, however it was the play of Pascal Dupuis on the boards with a steal that created that opportunity.
 

Griffin6612

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Just watched the game, and man I LOVE Geno when he plays like this. Just reminds me how he can be the best, and why I've loved him so much throughout the years.
 

IcedCapp

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No.... Sorry....

The correct answer was... If he ate more Filet o Fish.

we are seeking fish-delicious

fillet o fish

so ridiculouscious

fillet o fish

we are craving cravealicious

fillet o fish

much more than delicious

it's fillet o fishdelicious
 

Sidney the Kidney

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Sidney the Kidney - 11-9-7, while impressive, is not a winning record as you stated. Win v Loss wise, that translates to 11-16.

No matter whether you love or hate the new points system, the fact of the matter is 11-9-7 is considered a "winning record" under the new system because it's over .500.
 

vodeni

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Listening the pens post game show one whould think we demolished Tampa, this is funny. I am the biggest Geno's fan in the world, so I watched this game again and check his game. he had 3-4 OK shifts everything else was just meaningless skating around in the offensive zone with almost no pressure on the defense. The first line was similar with a few more shifts with sustained pressure. That was a below average performance sans the PP.

And Tampa's PK is not remotely agressive as Flyers or any other team that understand if you put the pressure on our point guys we are lost...

Our defense was OK, Despres was fantastic up and down, making Scuds look good.

Our 4a and 4b lines were pathetic as units except few good individual efforts (Gibons, Sutter) , but nothing to show for, they don't generate any pressure anything.

I don't want to be Debbie Downer, but listening to Bylsma in the presser he really doesn't get it, he thinks we played great game against great team. This is crazy.
 

Michael8771*

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If Geno plays to his capabilities he's as good as sir Sidney. Today he was a monster!
 

Michael8771*

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Just watched the game, and man I LOVE Geno when he plays like this. Just reminds me how he can be the best, and why I've loved him so much throughout the years.
You got that right, he was smoldering this game. No really, the ice was melting all around him as he caught fire!!!!!!!!
 

JTG

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For what it's worth - and probably not much - Despres now leads all Penguins defensemen in corsi.

He does play sheltered minutes - compared to other Penguins dmen - but the Pens don't actually shelter or lean on any one of their d-pairs (at least according to Corsi's QoC stats) as much as other teams do.

Because Dan Bylsma does not believe in line matching, and he's the only head coach of 30 that doesn't believe in it.
 
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