PC Building Guide and Discussion #12

[SniperHF]

BTW one thing to note, I'm not sure if this impacts you specifically or not but some motherboards won't provide BIOS update support for newer AM4 CPUs and likewise some newer AM4 motherboards won't support certain older CPUs. So you need to keep an eye on the CPU compatibility lists.

The reason is apparently the NV chips are too small so they can't actually store the code needed for every AMD CPU.....
So even when you have a unified socket for a while you still get potentially screwed over another way

So far it has only affected the first generation of APUs and not the mainline Zen desktop CPUs.
AMD BIOS Limitations: Bristol Ridge Dropped From Certain Motherboards

But it could conceivably have an impact in the future. Or maybe they'll just have split bios versions or just get bigger chips on new boards.

 

[Kestrel]

Definitely worth knowing! Given how expensive TR boards are, I sure hope they don't have that issue - but, I wouldn't be surprised if I want a new board to go with a new chip at that point anyway... I BELIEVE TR is supposed to be current until 2020, and I'm sure there will be at least one or two updates to things like USB, PCIe, SATA, and other connectivity by then.

 

[flyingkiwi]

Woohoo my computer doesn't want to load into Forza Horizon 3 or update graphics drivers.

 

[SniperHF]

update graphics drivers.

Have you tried DDU?
Display Driver Uninstaller Download version 17.0.9.0

I don't like using it but if the drivers won't update...

I'd make a backup before running it. Also read the notes.

 

[flyingkiwi]

I managed to get the update done. And the games decided to work. Won’t be surprised if it stops though, cause it’s done it before.

 

[SniperHF]

This RGB thing has gone too far:
Team Group Delta RGB SSD 250 GB Review

RGB SSDs....

 

[Kestrel]

This RGB thing has gone too far:
Team Group Delta RGB SSD 250 GB Review

RGB SSDs....

Hahaha that's awesome and horrible at the same time! I already thought the RGB thing had gone too far some time ago.

 

[guinness]

This RGB thing has gone too far:
Team Group Delta RGB SSD 250 GB Review

RGB SSDs....

RGB things will be the bell-bottoms of PCs when viewed by future generations.

 

[flyingkiwi]

My RGB goes as far as a blue case fan, which matches the various LEDs on my case and mouse. What about you guys?

 

[Kestrel]

My RGB goes as far as a blue case fan, which matches the various LEDs on my case and mouse. What about you guys?

My video card has an obnoxious blue LED on it that I have long been tempted to throw some electric tape over. My motherboard has 2 or 3 RGB zones on it - I have them all turned off.

 

[flyingkiwi]

My video card has an obnoxious blue LED on it that I have long been tempted to throw some electric tape over. My motherboard has 2 or 3 RGB zones on it - I have them all turned off.

My motherboard is kinda brown and gold and I totally accidentally bought blue RAM for it when I first built. I do not have a case window.

 

[Kestrel]

My motherboard is kinda brown and gold and I totally accidentally bought blue RAM for it when I first built. I do not have a case window.

That might be a good thing Mine has a mostly black aesthetic to it - if I were looking for a pretty inside to my computer, I think that would be a good place to start - but I leave the thing running 24/7, and it's in my bedroom, so I'm happier without any lights!

 

[flyingkiwi]

That might be a good thing Mine has a mostly black aesthetic to it - if I were looking for a pretty inside to my computer, I think that would be a good place to start - but I leave the thing running 24/7, and it's in my bedroom, so I'm happier without any lights!

Yeah mine is mostly black too. I actually quite like the goldish heatsinks on the mobo but man oh man I wish I had paid more attention when buying RAM. I just ticked the wrong thing on Newegg four years ago.

 

[Kestrel]

Well, I went ahead and grabbed a motherboard for my parents HTPC. Much more of a motherboard than they need, but it's a good price for what it is. The annoying thing is, I doubt I get the rebate - the application for the rebate needs to be received within 10 days of purchase, and NewEgg loves to take their time even shipping out.

ASRock X470 Master SLI/AC AM4 AMD Promontory X470 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.1 HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Newegg.ca

 

[Kestrel]

And, I ordered the CPU and RAM for my parents' HTPC. I really really don't like buying 4GB sticks in today's day and age, but I didn't want to spend more money, and it's an HTPC, so their computer will get a pair of 4GB sticks. The CPU is really more than necessary, but I ordered an r5 2400G.

 

[SniperHF]

My HTPC gets by fine with a single 4GB stick, I'd be surprised if it even needed the 8.

 

[Kestrel]

I'm sure you're right - the current one they're running has either 2 or 4 - likely 4GB in total. I don't for the life of me remember what processor it's on, other than to say it's a C2D. This new system really is substantially more than necessary, but maybe I can get my dad into some low end big screen gaming.

 

[Dick Sledge]

For a 1st time overclocker. Should I do it manually or used the cpu upgrade in the bios?

 

[SniperHF]

For a 1st time overclocker. Should I do it manually or used the cpu upgrade in the bios?

What CPU and motherboard?

I used to use the auto overclock function as a starting point and then tweak as needed.

The auto overclock options work but they do it on a lowest common denominator level. So it basically takes what the worst CPU (every CPU is different even of the same model) and picks settings that they should all be able to hit.

What this usually means is you get a reasonable overclock for more heat/voltage than is required..


Before doing anything I would check and see what your high temperature is when your CPU is running 100%. Prime 95 for 10 minutes or so is usually good enough to find that, most games won't peg your CPU at 100%.

Then google around to see what the safe temperature range is for your CPU model.

Then you could either run the auto overclock or follow a guide and do it manually.

 

[Dick Sledge]

What CPU and motherboard?

I used to use the auto overclock function as a starting point and then tweak as needed.

The auto overclock options work but they do it on a lowest common denominator level. So it basically takes what the worst CPU (every CPU is different even of the same model) and picks settings that they should all be able to hit.

What this usually means is you get a reasonable overclock for more heat/voltage than is required..


Before doing anything I would check and see what your high temperature is when your CPU is running 100%. Prime 95 for 10 minutes or so is usually good enough to find that, most games won't peg your CPU at 100%.

Then google around to see what the safe temperature range is for your CPU model.

Then you could either run the auto overclock or follow a guide and do it manually.

Currently the i3 8350k (although I will be upgrading to an 8600k around black friday if there's a good deal) and the Gigabyte z370 HD3.

The breaking point is 100c. I know I've read that for this cpu. While on gaming load the cpu temp stays in the low 50s.

Edit: the auto clock upgrades are 4.2, 4.3 and 4.6. It's running currently at 4.0 stock.

 

[SniperHF]

Currently the i3 8350k (although I will be upgrading to an 8600k around black friday if there's a good deal) and the Gigabyte z370 HD3.

The breaking point is 100c. I know I've read that for this cpu. While on gaming load the cpu temp stays in the low 50s.

That seems too high, that's probably what's known as the TJ Max. Your CPU at that temp will start to slow down to prevent damage. Generally the rule of thumb is you want to be 20C or more lower than the TJ Max, so 80C is what I'd call your max temperature for 24/7 operation.

Edit: the auto clock upgrades are 4.2, 4.3 and 4.6. It's running currently at 4.0 stock.

You might even be able to get 4.3/4.3 without increasing voltage at all. 4.6 would almost certainly require more voltage.

Playing around with the auto settings won't hurt, just keep an eye on the temps.

Intel CPUs can get HOT very fast with a little voltage increase.

You should be able to see what voltage it's setting for each frequency after you enable it. If you're stable at the voltage the auto OC gives you, I'd back off voltage 0.010v at a time until you're either happy with the temps or it gets unstable.

 

[Dick Sledge]

That seems too high, that's probably what's known as the TJ Max. Your CPU at that temp will start to slow down to prevent damage. Generally the rule of thumb is you want to be 20C or more lower than the TJ Max, so 80C is what I'd call your max temperature for 24/7 operation.




You might even be able to get 4.3/4.3 without increasing voltage at all. 4.6 would almost certainly require more voltage.

Playing around with the auto settings won't hurt, just keep an eye on the temps.

Intel CPUs can get HOT very fast with a little voltage increase.

You should be able to see what voltage it's setting for each frequency after you enable it. If you're stable at the voltage the auto OC gives you, I'd back off voltage 0.010v at a time until you're either happy with the temps or it gets unstable.

Yep, the max is what I was referring to. Thanks for the info.

So the biggest difference is the voltage and temps with the auto? Good to know.

I've been running Cinebench and I'm curious to see how a little overclocking affects that score. As well as in game performance. I'll also look into the Prime95 app as well.

 

[SniperHF]

I'll also look into the Prime95 app as well

Prime 95 has a main use you don't need to concern yourself with much, but the torture test function is sometimes used to check stability. It's also a really good way to heat your CPU up to see where you're at without waiting for a game or whatever. Prime 95 will stress your CPU a lot more than most every game will.

Make sure to stop the torture test when you're done

So the biggest difference is the voltage and temps with the auto? Good to know.

Usually, the temps mostly being a side effect of the voltage. So say the worst 8350k needs (fake numbers) 1.25 volts Vcore to hit 4.4ghz. That's probably what the auto overclock will give you to make sure it always works. But the average 8350k might only need 1.19 volts so you could get by with less heat/stress on components.

There are A LOT of other more granular settings you may or may not need to mess with if you push it really high.

HW monitor is a good way to keep track of all this at a glance. It will show your max temp, Vcore voltage, and a ton of other stuff that's probably not needed. It lacks and in-game display and such but I find it easier to use it when working up an OC.
HWMONITOR | Softwares | CPUID

 

[Dick Sledge]

Prime 95 has a main use you don't need to concern yourself with much, but the torture test function is sometimes used to check stability. It's also a really good way to heat your CPU up to see where you're at without waiting for a game or whatever. Prime 95 will stress your CPU a lot more than most every game will.

Make sure to stop the torture test when you're done



Usually, the temps mostly being a side effect of the voltage. So say the worst 8350k needs (fake numbers) 1.25 volts Vcore to hit 4.4ghz. That's probably what the auto overclock will give you to make sure it always works.

There are A LOT of other more granular settings you may or may not need to mess with if you push it really high.

HW monitor is a good way to keep track of all this at a glance. It will show your max temp, Vcore voltage, and a ton of other stuff that's probably not needed. It lacks and in-game display and such but I find it easier to use it when working up an OC.
HWMONITOR | Softwares | CPUID

All excellent information. Definitely makes me wish I got into PC and PC gaming earlier.

I've been an oh so ignorant console guy throughout my life. It literally only took minutes after my build to see and feel the difference.

I actually just watched a decent Jayztwocents video about the differences between xmp, auto clocking and manual clocking.

 

[Kestrel]

All excellent information. Definitely makes me wish I got into PC and PC gaming earlier.

I've been an oh so ignorant console guy throughout my life. It literally only took minutes after my build to see and feel the difference.

I actually just watched a decent Jayztwocents video about the differences between xmp, auto clocking and manual clocking.

Welcome to the PC Master Race I'm not an anti-console guy, but it is fun to needle some of the more sensitive console gamers - sounds like you're already enjoying some of the reasons a number of us like having our PC's though.