Paul Coffey: Oiler Grievances thread part 2!

[Teamplaya]

Hey everyone,

I really enjoyed all the input on the Mark Messier thread: great to see discussion and learn so much. I was curious, because while his career is probably less controversial, what is the consensus here on Paul Coffey? I'll speak first and say the guy kind of bothered me, not because of his weird stretch towards the end of his career, it's more that he struck me as kind of arrogant and combative. The worst stories I've heard about him entail him being a diver, his contract disputes, and Scotty Bowmans grievances with him "not playing the right way", and refusing to change his game. This brings me to my next point: why did he play the way he did? He always struck me as odd because he seemed to just play a forwards game above all else, and just happened to have a job on the blue line, regardless of whether he was accountable for the job or not. To those of us who remember him, did his defensive game hold up? I don't mean to break any rules about libel so I did what I could to cross reference stories I've heard.

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[TheDevilMadeMe]

His ranking on top players lists is much more variable than Messier's.

Messier seems more controversial because there is a relatively large and vocal fanbase that hates him, but if you actually look at where people rank these players, Coffey has more variability, from posters who argue he was on the level of Bourque, to others who would have him under Stevens and MacInnis.

 

[The Panther]

The problems Bowman had with Coffey are also the exact problems Sather had with Coffey in Edmonton, especially towards the end of his time there. Sather and Coffey went into combative mode during 1985-86, the year Coffey broke Orr's goals record and won his second Norris (and Edmonton was eliminated by Calgary). Sather on the one hand really encouraged his Oilers to go for records and to play an aggressive, attacking style, as we all know; on the other hand, he started to feel Coffey's play was suffering because he was focused too much on offense as the season went on. If you look back at 1985-86, Coffey scored 17 goals in the first half of the season and 31 (!) in the second half. It didn't help when Coffey's contract was up, and Sather talked him down and signed for about 50% of what Bourque was making (mind this was when Coffey won two Norrises in a row and Bourque had never won one). Coffey actually told the Edmonton press, "Sather screwed me."

It is interesting to consider how exactly Coffey developed this rover style he had. He later said that even in Junior hockey, coaches hadn't let him attack as much as Edmonton did. The Oilers' team and offense were so successful from 1981 to 1985 that I guess it made sense for Coffey to be the top offensive D-man and just go for broke. He could skate better than anyone, so why not?

But unlike Bourque or Lidstrom or Orr (mostly), Coffey had difficulty balancing his offensive chances with defensive duties. It makes sense that on a team like Edmonton in the mid-80s, he would take more chances up ice. It makes less sense on Pittsburgh c.1990. I think Coffey was "Bowman-ed" into submission a bit c.1995 and he finally developed a correct balance, but even then he would frequently make poor judgments.

Because he's essentially the only rover since the 1920s or whatever, he is a very divisive players in terms of ranking his extremely high or just towards the bottom of people's lists.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

if you actually look at where people rank these players, Coffey has more variability, from posters who argue he was on the level of Bourque, to others who would have him under Stevens and MacInnis.

coffey is such a wild card.

if we can be fairly certain that that generation goes bourque > chelios > stevens/macinnis > leetch, you could have coffey anywhere between bourque and leetch.

personally i feel that coffey was such a genius, such a unique talent, such a unicorn, that it doesn’t matter what his defensive deficiencies are. he consistently put up video game stats. in 1990, he scored 103 points and nobody even cared. macinnis and leetch scored 103 and 102 in the next two years and those were norris seasons, or in macinnis’ case about as close as it gets with peak bourque in the way.

i have so much time for macinnis and scott stevens, but i have coffey ahead of them. where i have him relative to chelios changes depending on the day.

 

[The Panther]

in 1990, he scored 103 points and nobody even cared. macinnis and leetch scored 103 and 102 in the next two years and those were norris seasons, or in macinnis’ case about as close as it gets with peak bourque in the way.

I agree with your overall points, but there are a few factors to take into account re: Coffey in 1990:

- His team missed the playoffs (how often does a Norris winner's team miss the playoffs, if ever?)
- The Gretzky-after-200-point-seasons syndrome of, "He scored 130+ points before, so 103 doesn't seem that amazing".
- He was -25 (worst on the Pens) and his team allowed 65 more goals-against than the League average. Coffey was on the ice for more goals-against than any player in the League.

Also, "nobody even cared" is a bit of an exaggeration. He was a 2nd-team All Star and was 4th in Norris voting.

 

[FerrisRox]

in 1990, he scored 103 points and nobody even cared. macinnis and leetch scored 103 and 102 in the next two years and those were norris seasons, or in macinnis’ case about as close as it gets with peak bourque in the way.

The Penguins were atrocious defensively in 1990, and Paul Coffey was, by far, their ice time leader for defensemen so there's no way he was in the conversation for the Norris that year.

 

[DannyGallivan]

Coffey was called - in special issue of THN a few years back that ranked the best of everything - the greatest skater of all time. He purposely kept his skates super-dull, so there would be less friction against the ice and he would be able to virtually "hover" as he skated. The kind of balance necessary to do that staggers my mind.

That's all I have to say about Paul Coffey.

 

[Michael Farkas]

He also had to be cut out of his skates after games I think...he wore them like two sizes too small, two sets of laces...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

all those paul coffey’s skates stories... i’d hate to ever see his feet

 

[NyQuil]

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

Coffey was called - in special issue of THN a few years back that ranked the best of everything - the greatest skater of all time. He purposely kept his skates super-dull, so there would be less friction against the ice and he would be able to virtually "hover" as he skated. The kind of balance necessary to do that staggers my mind.

That's all I have to say about Paul Coffey.

It really is mind-blowing how he could skate like that. Off the top of my head, I believe your typical recreational skate sharpening uses a hollow radius of 3/8" (smaller hollows having more bite, and bigger hollows having less bite with the ice surface). When I made the transition to playing goal, it was extremely difficult going from player sharpened 3/8" to the 3/4" used by goaltenders. Ive heard it accurately described as feeling like youre trying to skate on a smaller pair of skis. It took me a year to get comfortable with 3/4", and most goaltending skating is relatively simple, just T-pushes, shuffles, and backwards flow.

If this site is to be believed, Coffey played with hollows as shallow as 1-2". He must have had the balance of an Olympic Gymnast just to be able to stand up in those skates, let alone skate in them.

 

[The Panther]

As kids, we used to joke that he had married Ms. Tea.