Proposal: Patches to the Blues!

[terrible dee]

I think the Habs will be asking for more but remains to be seen if some team steps up.

As far as the Blues, When I look at the contracts and your core, It's clear to me that your window to win is in the next few seasons. After that, it's anybodies guess but there are some contracts that you will have to negotiate and it will take up a lot of cap space.

Haha!

Thanks so much for your expert analysis that just happens to further the Habs aims of getting out of the "League-wide embarrassment" bin

No, we like every other team in the league have NO USE FOR YOUR CRAPPY PLAYERS

We might do a lot of things, NONE OF THEM INVOLVE PATCHES

[mod]

 

[Got One Cup]

Don’t think Armstrong is looking at this year as a time to go all in. We have a good core with a deep pool of high end prospects. Add those prospects to our core over the next couple years and we may have a contender.

 

[Dominicr]

I don’t think patches is who the blues are going after. I think it’s galchenyuk and Gallagher.

 

[rent free]

2 FIRSTS. TWO FIRSTS. NOT one. TWO. Yes i am yelling.

Why are people repeating this over and over???

Well you traded lehreta as well.

 

[jfhabs]

So i take it you don't follow the OHL? Kyrou has been body slamming that league. The only reason he's still not 1st is because he had to go do work in the WJC.

I don|<t follow the O as close as the nhl but I catch some games here and there... Kyrou is a good prospects but success/points in Junior don<t always translate.

I don't know if you follow the nhl but Pacioretty has been a top 5 goal scorer for the last 7 years and is still in his prime. If you don't want to pay for him that's fine, but he has more value than Kyrou... and I can't see Kyrou having enough value to be the main piece coming back. Just my opinion thought. I know some people think Pac is worth Gunnarson and Barbashev too haha

 

[Dbrownss]

I don|<t follow the O as close as the nhl but I catch some games here and there... Kyrou is a good prospects but success/points in Junior don<t always translate.

I don't know if you follow the nhl but Pacioretty has been a top 5 goal scorer for the last 7 years and is still in his prime. If you don't want to pay for him that's fine, but he has more value than Kyrou... and I can't see Kyrou having enough value to be the main piece coming back. Just my opinion thought. I know some people think Pac is worth Gunnarson and Barbashev too haha

Nothing in this post addresses what I quoted you on.

I do agree some fan proposals for Pacioretty are embarrassing. With that said, Hab fans want the noon for Pacioretty, and that's just not realistic, going by other trades for top wingers. You also have the aspect of age/contract status and other top 6 LW being available. Asking for a teams' top prospect(Thomas in this case) isn't happening

 

[jfhabs]

Nothing in this post addresses what I quoted you on.

I do agree some fan proposals for Pacioretty are embarrassing. With that said, Hab fans want the noon for Pacioretty, and that's just not realistic, going by other trades for top wingers. You also have the aspect of age/contract status and other top 6 LW being available. Asking for a teams' top prospect(Thomas in this case) isn't happening

Didn't ask for Thomas... but if you're not prepared to offer him don't bother IMO. I think the bad offers from other teams are much more unrealistic than what some habs fan are asking. Blues already paid 2 first for Schenn and would prefer a C/RW, it's just a bad fit. No need to try and make us believe Pacioretty isn't worth a lot, he is (not mean't at you, I think you are one of the sane blues fan in this thread).
Pacioretty is better than either Kane or Hoffman tho. I would say Kane is the least valuable too because of his attitude, inconsistency and injury prone.

 

[67Blues]

I'm sure from a Habs perspective, something like Patches for Schwartz + 1st or Thomas+Kyrou+1st is good value, and I can't blame them for trying to maximize value while addressing their needs to rebuild with youth. But, to make a trade, it takes two willing partners that can satisfy a need for both teams such that they give up assets to make that trade. Right now, it seems that Habs fans just don't seem to realize that Patches isn't a need that the Blues have which addresses their shortcomings. As such, the offers from Blues fans will be extremely low from a Habs fan perspective because it just isn't worth it. The Blues GM is trying to retool the core with youth and speed since the current trajectory isn't working. No need to cash that youth in for Patches regardless of how good he is. Habs fans should be shopping him to other teams who will make a cup run this year to get better value.

And to whoever stated that Patches has been a top 5 scorer for the past 7 years really needs to look at the record books. He hasn't been in the top 5 for points in that time, and only was in the top 5 in goals 4 years ago.

 

[Dbrownss]

Didn't ask for Thomas... but if you're not prepared to offer him don't bother IMO. I think the bad offers from other teams are much more unrealistic than what some habs fan are asking. Blues already paid 2 first for Schenn and would prefer a C/RW, it's just a bad fit. No need to try and make us believe Pacioretty isn't worth a lot, he is (not mean't at you, I think you are one of the sane blues fan in this thread).
Pacioretty is better than either Kane or Hoffman tho. I would say Kane is the least valuable too because of his attitude, inconsistency and injury prone.

That's the ask though from what I've seen. It's either Thomas+1st or nothing, and that's just unrealistic.

As for Schenn, the Blues paid to dump Lehtera. Break down the value however you want but Schenn didn't cost 2 1sts.

Personally Im interested in Patches as he's an upgrade over Steen/Sobokta, so Id take him as a 2LW on the Blues. As for what I'd be comfortable with....idk.

 

[jfhabs]

I'm sure from a Habs perspective, something like Patches for Schwartz + 1st or Thomas+Kyrou+1st is good value, and I can't blame them for trying to maximize value while addressing their needs to rebuild with youth. But, to make a trade, it takes two willing partners that can satisfy a need for both teams such that they give up assets to make that trade. Right now, it seems that Habs fans just don't seem to realize that Patches isn't a need that the Blues have which addresses their shortcomings. As such, the offers from Blues fans will be extremely low from a Habs fan perspective because it just isn't worth it. The Blues GM is trying to retool the core with youth and speed since the current trajectory isn't working. No need to cash that youth in for Patches regardless of how good he is. Habs fans should be shopping him to other teams who will make a cup run this year to get better value.

And to whoever stated that Patches has been a top 5 scorer for the past 7 years really needs to look at the record books. He hasn't been in the top 5 for points in that time, and only was in the top 5 in goals 4 years ago.

Goal scorer obv and he is top 5... NHL Player Stats in Last 7 Seasons

 

[jfhabs]

That's the ask though from what I've seen. It's either Thomas+1st or nothing, and that's just unrealistic.

As for Schenn, the Blues paid to dump Lehtera. Break down the value however you want but Schenn didn't cost 2 1sts.

Personally Im interested in Patches as he's an upgrade over Steen/Sobokta, so Id take him as a 2LW on the Blues. As for what I'd be comfortable with....idk.

I think it's a realistic add if the first is a late first... maybe not from the blues perspective since Thomas is your best prospect at a position of need. But he wouldn't be every team best prospect or a team with a need for a LW scorer might be willing to give more than you guys since you are mostly looking for RW or C

 

[BleedBlue14]

Didn't ask for Thomas... but if you're not prepared to offer him don't bother IMO. I think the bad offers from other teams are much more unrealistic than what some habs fan are asking. Blues already paid 2 first for Schenn and would prefer a C/RW, it's just a bad fit. No need to try and make us believe Pacioretty isn't worth a lot, he is (not mean't at you, I think you are one of the sane blues fan in this thread).
Pacioretty is better than either Kane or Hoffman tho. I would say Kane is the least valuable too because of his attitude, inconsistency and injury prone.

Kane has decent value due to him being a pure rental. That's a lot more valuable than you would think. Gives teams a lot more flexibility along with a lesser of risk of a player not fitting well.

I've heard Patches has a small attitude issue from listening to a podcast but it was mainly a if he's not scoring nothing's going well type of attitude. Was from a former player but regardless, it's less baggage then what Kane is carrying around.

Patches has a better track record then both yes but honestly I'd view Patches and Hoffman as pretty comparable value wise and Kane as a little less but better for a certain niche.

 

[Dbrownss]

I think it's a realistic add if the first is a late first... maybe not from the blues perspective since Thomas is your best prospect at a position of need. But he wouldn't be every team best prospect or a team with a need for a LW scorer might be willing to give more than you guys since you are mostly looking for RW or C

Well there's no established prospect value. What I can say is Thomas is a top 6 200ft player that most likely will find himself in the NHL next year. Guys like Pronman are already saying he should have went way higher.... around Viliardi iirc.

These guys just don't get moved. I havn't read every post but correct me if Im wrong but I havn't seen a top prospect+1st has been offered.

 

[jfhabs]

Kane has decent value due to him being a pure rental. That's a lot more valuable than you would think. Gives teams a lot more flexibility along with a lesser of risk of a player not fitting well.

I've heard Patches has a small attitude issue from listening to a podcast but it was mainly a if he's not scoring nothing's going well type of attitude. Was from a former player but regardless, it's less baggage then what Kane is carrying around.

Patches has a better track record then both yes but honestly I'd view Patches and Hoffman as pretty comparable value wise and Kane as a little less but better for a certain niche.

IMO Hoffman is a good fit for the Blues. He's good on the PP and can play RW pretty good. As far as Pacioretty's attitude, Montreal is a crazy market and when the team if loosing you'll start hearing all kind of thing... it's a witch hunt. Pacioretty was nominated by the players to be captain and for the LadyBing a few times, that tells me enough haha

 

[jfhabs]

Well there's no established prospect value. What I can say is Thomas is a top 6 200ft player that most likely will find himself in the NHL next year. Guys like Pronman are already saying he should have went way higher.... around Viliardi iirc.

These guys just don't get moved. I havn't read every post but correct me if Im wrong but I havn't seen a top prospect+1st has been offered.

Of course you won't see that or rarely would a fan of an other team offer fair value... do you think blues fans would have offered what you guys paid for schenn on HF before the trade? Do you think Ottawa fans would have offered anything remotely close to what they paid for Duchene?
PS. I include habs fan in this too... and because there are more, there are more bad prosposals from Habs fans as well. But on HF, prospect are more exciting and are given more value than established players

 

[MSSLYNX]

Of course you won't see that or rarely would a fan of an other team offer fair value... do you think blues fans would have offered what you guys paid for schenn on HF before the trade? Do you think Ottawa fans would have offered anything remotely close to what they paid for Duchene?
PS. I include habs fan in this too... and because there are more, there are more bad prosposals from Habs fans as well. But on HF, prospect are more exciting and are given more value than established players

Great post.

 

[DRW204]

Which team is in dire need of LWs? If I were MTL I'd look at that to start. I just don't see a team offer top prospects+1st for Max Pacioretty when he might not be a clear-cut upgrade over the LWs in an acquiring teams top 6.

Some of the proposed costs of a top prospect (ie: R. Thomas, E. Tolvanen, G. Vilardi)+1st+ should be for an acquisition that is clearly an upgrade over a top line F/D position, not a marginal one IMO. The cost-benefit in STL's case doesn't work. Not to mention the Winger market is flooded with names rumored to be available which might have a dilution of the return for MTL.

 

[Dbrownss]

Of course you won't see that or rarely would a fan of an other team offer fair value... do you think blues fans would have offered what you guys paid for schenn on HF before the trade? Do you think Ottawa fans would have offered anything remotely close to what they paid for Duchene?
PS. I include habs fan in this too... and because there are more, there are more bad prosposals from Habs fans as well. But on HF, prospect are more exciting and are given more value than established players

Well that's a loaded question. That specific deal? Maybe.... Lehtera became detrimental to the Blues. Right now there would be too much bias with the trade to give a fair answer.


Regardless though, it seems like we're beating around the bush with what the issue is. There's almost no point in these threads as there seems to be zero middle ground.

 

[Stealth JD]

The Blues have literally been playing bad hockey for months.

Maybe they eventually pull out of it and maybe they don't, but you're not going to find five Blues fans on HF that would describe the current team as one of the best in the league. I'm not sure you can find one.

Seems to be a pretty common belief among fans who don't watch the team, though, so there's that.

I think the Blues are one of the best teams in the league...when healthy. Get Schwartz back and add another top-6 forward...yes, this team is a contender. I'd absolutely make a short-term trade to go for it this year. This year is more wide open than most. It's Nashville and...? LA? Armstrong absolutely owes it to the locker-room and fan-base to improve the current club if he can do so without dramatically hurting the future.

Patches would be a great get if it only cost them Kyrou and another prospect. MP could come here with low expectations, and the weight of playing in Montreal lifted from his shoulders. We've seen guys change teams and shake their playoff-choker reputation (Oshie, Brouwer lately), and I've no doubt Pacioretty could too. Just wish he were a RW instead of a LW.

 

[67Blues]

The Blues have to look at Patches as a #2LW, as he isn't better than Schwartz. If he were a RH RW, then the conversation would be a bit better, but he'd still be a #2RW on this team behind Tarasenko. So lets say that the Blues do offer Thomas and Kyrou for Patches which would please Habs fans as fair value. That would bump Steen to the #2RW (bad), Thompson down to the #3RW for a line of Sobie, Bergie and Thompson. Then what do you do with all the spare parts of Jaskin, PRV, Barbashev, and Thorburn? I guess you let them fight it out.

But then, next year, we can't sign Statsny because Patches eats that salary up along with the increase for Fabbri and Edmondson. Thus, your #2C for Patches is Thomas...oh wait, he's gone. So, next up would be Berglund, Sanford? Ugh. Fabbri is back in the fold next year, and I like Fabbri better than Patches, so now one of those guys slips to #3LW, and you still have Steen playing on his off wing which he is not very good at. Maybe Kostin is ready next year for right wing then you slip Steen to #3RW, but still, it is the right side.

The pieces just don't fit well for Patches and the Blues both this year and going forward.

 

[BangarangxRufio]

FFS this is still going?


Dear,

I want to start this post off by stating something very important:ITS NOT YOU ITS US.
We know that Patches is a very good LW and YES, he could return a top prospect+early 2nd. We are so lucky to know you think of us as a perfect fit/pair.It's truly flattering you have so such strong feelings towards our talents. It was not our wish to lead you on or waste your time. We tried to make our lack of interest in pursuing a partnership with you clear from the beginning. Apologies if that wasn't clear. You're great, just great, but honestly, your trade should be with someone that TRULY appreciates your talent and depth and compliments you better than we can. We are just really busy lately and do know if we have the time to invest in this trade right now. But you're great, and we will never forget the times we had talking about this. We should still be friends, as long as it isn't awkward for you of course.

Love,



P.S. This may be too soon, but is there anyway you could give me Chucky/Gallagher's #? There is something I want to talk to them about...TOTALLY not related to this.

 

[AndreRoy]

FFS this is still going?


Dear,

I want to start this post off by stating something very important:ITS NOT YOU ITS US.
We know that Patches is a very good LW and YES, he could return a top prospect+early 2nd. We are so lucky to know you think of us as a perfect fit/pair.It's truly flattering you have so such strong feelings towards our talents. It was not our wish to lead you on or waste your time. We tried to make our lack of interest in pursuing a partnership with you clear from the beginning. Apologies if that wasn't clear. You're great, just great, but honestly, your trade should be with someone that TRULY appreciates your talent and depth and compliments you better than we can. We are just really busy lately and do know if we have the time to invest in this trade right now. But you're great, and we will never forget the times we had talking about this. We should still be friends, as long as it isn't awkward for you of course.

Love,



P.S. This may be too soon, but is there anyway you could give me Chucky/Gallagher's #? There is something I want to talk to them about...TOTALLY not related to this.

This might be the greatest post in the history of this forum.

 

[MSSLYNX]

Cant wait to see which team will be coming in to start a rebound relationship with the Habs!!!!

There is this dude i can set you up with: German Rubstov 2016 22nd. Checking a few boxes: size, was a ppg in the Q at 18, wjc for Russia twice. He aint Thomas but check him out. A whole less expensive to entertain too. If you got any interest i'll set you up.

Not asking for Max or Galchenyuk of course. Scherbak and one of your 3 second rounders. Just for the first date. Might turn into something else at some point.

Huge post Bang. Huge.

 

[TK 421]

Great post.

The Blues didn't just pay for Schenn though, we also paid to dump Lehtera who has a 4.7 mil cap hit. Pretty important part of those 2 1st's going back to Philly. Don't get me wrong I've see Blues fans suggest the Pens coughed up " a 1st for Reaves" when there were other parts to that deal. Sundqvist to the Blues and a 2nd to the Pens.

 

[TK 421]

I think the Blues are one of the best teams in the league...when healthy. Get Schwartz back and add another top-6 forward...yes, this team is a contender. I'd absolutely make a short-term trade to go for it this year. This year is more wide open than most. It's Nashville and...? LA? Armstrong absolutely owes it to the locker-room and fan-base to improve the current club if he can do so without dramatically hurting the future.

Patches would be a great get if it only cost them Kyrou and another prospect. MP could come here with low expectations, and the weight of playing in Montreal lifted from his shoulders. We've seen guys change teams and shake their playoff-choker reputation (Oshie, Brouwer lately), and I've no doubt Pacioretty could too. Just wish he were a RW instead of a LW.

As you said though..it would be great if Pacioretty was a RHS RW. He isn't so we should be discussing Simmonds or Hoffman who has at least played some right wing. Or we can just wait for that John Sanchez guy to hit UFA.